Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[Archon]

Please, the water dancers of Bravos are considered highly skilled. Unlike the Unsullied their warriors not soldiers. A water dancer would skewer a common soldier of the Iron Legion. The Iron Bank has also been known to knock down kings and raise peasants to thrones if it suits them. If they decided your the bigger threat then Volantis they will not lack in wealth, none of the coalition will. As for war elephants those might be the bigger problem but bravos may just sail and surround new Gris and starve them out or wait for them to try to come to them on the water of the lawls.

...Wait, what?


I said the common Iron Legionnaire is better than the common Coalition army soldier. Are the Swords of Braavos the common Braavosi army? No. How many Swords of Braavos even are their? For all we know therer are no more than ten.


Glad you mentiond the warrior point too, precisely why the Unsullied would make mincemeat out of Water Dancers. Water Dancers would do well in a duel, and annihilate an Unsullied one vs one. Too bad we're taling about war, where the discipline, and formation-fighting of the Unsullied would mangle any infantry Braavos had to offer.


You also over exaggerate the Iron Bank, they couldn't do either of those thing to any King with real power. Do you think they could have deposed Robert with the whole seven Kingdoms at his back?


Braavos would have to sail around a whole continent to reach New Ghis, by the time they got there I imagine measures would have been taken to destroy the demoralized and tired Braavosi fleet, after-all they can't send every ship they own - New Ghis can defend with every ship they own.


New Ghis is an island-nation; it grows it's own crops, and is a prime trading hub. How can it be starved out? Do Braavos have enough ships to surround a whole island? That'd be like one ship every few miles; very effective. Or they could land with their army, and get massacred by the New Ghis army of citizens fighting on home field advantage with better training and gear(?).


New Ghis would never take the fight to Braavos, that would be foolish.


...Really, though? Surround New Ghis? Please, that's like saying "Spain has a massive fleet, they can surround England and starve them out."


Sure, England is like thrice the size.But the whole Spanish armada couldn't even surround Yorkshire.

 

[Archon]

Roland Wilds pledges his sword to the murder of all the bitch made swords of Bravos. Try and get through my platemail with your toothpicks broskie.

"Because Wilds had armor, and a big fucking sword!"

 

[WanderingJester]

...Wait, what?
I said the common Iron Legionnaire is better than the common Coalition army soldier. Are the Swords of Braavos the common Braavosi army? No. How many Swords of Braavos even are their? For all we know therer are no more than ten.


Glad you mentiond the warrior point too, precisely why the Unsullied would make mincemeat out of Water Dancers. Water Dancers would do well in a duel, and annihilate an Unsullied one vs one. Too bad we're taling about war, where the discipline, and formation-fighting of the Unsullied would mangle any infantry Braavos had to offer.


You also over exaggerate the Iron Bank, they couldn't do either of those thing to any King with real power. Do you think they could have deposed Robert with the whole seven Kingdoms at his back?


Braavos would have to sail around a whole continent to reach New Ghis, by the time they got there I imagine measures would have been taken to destroy the demoralized and tired Braavosi fleet, after-all they can't send every ship they own - New Ghis can defend with every ship they own.


New Ghis is an island-nation; it grows it's own crops, and is a prime trading hub. How can it be starved out? Do Braavos have enough ships to surround a whole island? That'd be like one ship every few miles; very effective. Or they could land with their army, and get massacred by the New Ghis army of citizens fighting on home field advantage with better training and gear(?).


New Ghis would never take the fight to Braavos, that would be foolish.


...Really, though? Surround New Ghis? Please, that's like saying "Spain has a massive fleet, they can surround England and starve them out."


Sure, England is like thrice the size.But the whole Spanish armada couldn't even surround Yorkshire.

Well, to be fair. If England can put a strangle hold around Europe during the Napoleonic wars with their fleet, it's not out of the question that a fleet can blockade New Ghis more or less completely *shrug*

 

[Mion]

I think he mean't more embargo trade routes.

 

[Archon]

I think he mean't more embargo trade routes.

He didn't say embargo trade routes, he said surround New Ghis.

Well, to be fair. If England can put a strangle hold around Europe during the Napoleonic wars with their fleet, it's not out of the question that a fleet can blockade New Ghis more or less completely *shrug*

The Napeleonic Wars are hardly a similar comparison, that involved most of the Western world if I do recall, all against France.


Napoleon even tried to attack the Ottoman Empire. England basically put a stranglehold on France, with most of Europe at Britain's back, France's navy never rivaled that of Spain or England either.


In this situation Braavos can't commit it's whole navy, nor park a few miles down the sea. they have to sail around a whole continent and meet the full force of New Ghis's navy. Then have enough ships to blockade the whole Island, despite the fact the Island is self-sustaining and can grow it's own crops.

 

[Mion]

He didn't say embargo trade routes, he said surround New Ghis.
The Napeleonic Wars are hardly a similar comparison, that involved most of the Western world if I do recall, all against France.


Napoleon even tried to attack the Ottoman Empire. England basically put a stranglehold on France, with most of Europe at Britain's back, France's navy never rivaled that of Spain or England either.


In this situation Braavos can't commit it's whole navy, nor park a few miles down the sea. they have to sail around a whole continent and meet the full force of New Ghis's navy.

Yes but he was talking about starving them out and making sure they got no resources so I thought that was what he was implying.

 

[WanderingJester]

He didn't say embargo trade routes, he said surround New Ghis.
The Napeleonic Wars are hardly a similar comparison, that involved most of the Western world if I do recall, all against France.


Napoleon even tried to attack the Ottoman Empire. England basically put a stranglehold on France, with most of Europe at Britain's back, France's navy never rivaled that of Spain or England either.


In this situation Braavos can't commit it's whole navy, nor park a few miles down the sea. they have to sail around a whole continent and meet the full force of New Ghis's navy.

Ok, there are plenty of other examples in history. Rome used similar tactics against its enemies, while other nations have done similar work against island nations elsewhere. I'm not saying that Braavos can do the same thing with New Ghis, or whatever's been discussed, just that a(n existing) fleet can realistically cut off New Ghis from the outside world, using patrols and such and not laying ships out end to end to surround New Ghis *shrug*

 

[Akio]

How big is Ghis's navy anyway? Considering Bravos has the greatest Navy of any free city to the point there basically Athens from Greece how would they be resisted so easily? They pump out a warship a day, their navy is absolutely terrifying even to the big fleets Westeros has

 

[Mion]

How big is Ghis's navy anyway? Considering Bravos has the greatest Navy of any free city to the point there basically Athens from Greece how would they be resisted so easily? They pump out a warship a day, their navy is absolutely terrifying even to the big fleets Westeros has

They don't pump out a warship a day, they have a method to make warships under 24hours...


So what you said is actually an understatement.

 

[Akio]

They don't pump out a warship a day, they have a method to make warships under 24hours...
So what you said is actually an understatement.

You know what i meant xD

 

[Archon]

Yes but he was talking about starving them out and making sure they got no resources so I thought that was what he was implying.

I covered that in the second part of my last post, New Ghis isn't a fortress. It's a whole nation. The Braavosi fleet would starve before New Ghis.

Ok, there are plenty of other examples in history. Rome used similar tactics against its enemies, while other nations have done similar work against island nations elsewhere. I'm not saying that Braavos can do the same thing with New Ghis, or whatever's been discussed, just that a(n existing) fleet can realistically cut off New Ghis from the outside world, using patrols and such and not laying ships out end to end to surround New Ghis *shrug*

Oh definitely, the Braavosi could cut New Ghis off from the rest of the world; but they'd lose a great portion of their fleet, and for no reason. Since New Ghis is self-sustaining, crops and all. All I was saying is they couldn't feasibly starve the residents of New Ghis out, the Fleet would mutiny back home before it worked.

How big is Ghis's navy anyway? Considering Bravos has the greatest Navy of any free city to the point there basically Athens from Greece how would they be resisted so easily? They pump out a warship a day, their navy is absolutely terrifying even to the big fleets Westeros has

They're a trade only nation, and the Wiki states it has a powerful Navy. Those things alone mean it's navy is no joke, as I said previously - Braavos cannot commit 100% of all it's ships to attacking New Ghis. But New Ghis can commit 100% of its ships. The Braavosi have to sail around a whole continent, and can't receive reinforcements - the morale would be rock bottom. Additionally, New Ghis is more likely to win any boarding action by that point.


This is all hypothetically a war between Meereen/Braavos/Norvos/Volantis and New Ghis/Astapor/Yunkai/Qohor(?).


I still don't believe Braavos would even join the coalition, let alone commit so much to a war they can gain so little from.

 

[Leusis]

1. they don't pump out a warship a day, they can however make a warship in under a day but they aren't constantly doing this and just because you have these ships being pumped out doesn't mean you have the men to sail them.


2. Braavos would have to sail thousands of miles just to reach New Ghis, not only would this give the island plenty of time to prepare but it would also give them time to produce as many extra ships as possible (obviously not very many, bu likely enough to strengthen them a bit).


3. New Ghis is an island nation and a trading hub and thus like has a very strong naval presence in slavers bay and this war would only happen after they took over 1 or 2 of the other slavers bay cities and thus absorbed their navies as well.


In all honesty I doubt Braavos would be able to win a naval battle against New Ghis unless it took place much closer to home for the braavosi.

 

[WanderingJester]

I covered that in the second part of my last post, New Ghis isn't a fortress. It's a whole nation. The Braavosi fleet would starve before New Ghis.
Oh definitely, the Braavosi could cut New Ghis off from the rest of the world; but they'd lose a great portion of their fleet, and for no reason. Since New Ghis is self-sustaining, crops and all. All I was saying is they couldn't feasibly starve the residents of New Ghis out, the Fleet would mutiny back home before it worked.


They're a trade only nation, and the Wiki states it has a powerful Navy. Those things alone mean it's navy is no joke, as I said previously - Braavos cannot commit 100% of all it's ships to attacking New Ghis. But New Ghis can commit 100% of its ships. The Braavosi have to sail around a whole continent, and can't receive reinforcements - the morale would be rock bottom. Additionally, New Ghis is more likely to win any boarding action by that point.


This is all hypothetically a war between Meereen/Braavos/Norvos/Volantis and New Ghis/Astapor/Yunkai/Qohor(?).


I still don't believe Braavos would even join the coalition, let alone commit so much to a war they can gain so little from.

Cool cool, I wasn't even addressing starvation or anything else really, just the island being effectively cut off from the rest of Essos (by a navy) and outside influences so nothing really goes in and out. Don't know about the morale thing, wasn't really paying attention to the Essos conversation after the hypothetical war escalated to more than 3v3 xD .

 

[Archon]

Cool cool, I wasn't even addressing starvation or anything else really, just the island being effectively cut off from the rest of Essos (by a navy) and outside influences so nothing really goes in and out. Don't know about the morale thing, wasn't really paying attention to the Essos conversation after the hypothetical war escalated to more than 3v3 xD .

Hehe, supposedly, but it's been pretty much Braavos vs New Ghis after eating Astapor and Yunkai. But yeah, the Braavosi could - pointlessly - embargo New Ghis. Provided they didn't lose the initial naval battle.

 

[Leusis]

Also Braavos is only powerful because of their navy and wealth. If they attempted to take part in a land battle against the Iron Legions they would be slaughtered plus they're too far away to be effective on the sea. So essentially all Braavos could do is help fund the war effort and get literally nothing back for their effort which is something they wouldn't do.

 

[Archon]

Also Braavos is only powerful because of their navy and wealth. If they attempted to take part in a land battle against the Iron Legions they would be slaughtered plus they're too far away to be effective on the sea. So essentially all Braavos could do is help fund the war effort and get literally nothing back for their effort which is something they wouldn't do.

Thank you!


I've been repeating this for nearly two pages now...

 

[Leusis]

If Braavos hated slavery enough to be suicidal about it then they would have fought Old Valyria and been crushed in their infancy. Braavos might hate slavery but why do you think they haven't fought Volantis over it? Because its not worth it even if they win.

 

[WanderingJester]

If Braavos hated slavery enough to be suicidal about it then they would have fought Old Valyria and been crushed in their infancy. Braavos might hate slavery but why do you think they haven't fought Volantis over it? Because its not worth it even if they win.

Well, I mean, I would also assume that Braavosi people don't fancy being roasted alive and/or eaten by large ass dragons, but you know, not hating slavery enough is a very valid reason. xD

 

[Archon]

If Braavos hated slavery enough to be suicidal about it then they would have fought Old Valyria and been crushed in their infancy. Braavos might hate slavery but why do you think they haven't fought Volantis over it? Because its not worth it even if they win.

And we're talking about Braavos willingly joining a coalition alongside Volantis AND Meereen, two other slave-titans. Against one BIG slave-titan that has a very powerful army, and trade presence.


Braavos would never join that war, we already know they prefer numbers, and facts, over oaths. And those facts and numbers are far out of Braavos's favor.

 

[Mion]

I don't know if it is just me but... emphasising that it is a slave alliance makes it more likely for Braavos to be interested no?

 

[Archon]

I don't know if it is just me but... emphasising that it is a slave alliance makes it more likely for Braavos to be interested no?

Braavos would be joining a slave alliance. And with their number one rival to boot.


Why would they be more interested in it?

 

[TheAncientCelt]

It all comes down to if the new Ghiscari Empire threatens Braavos in the imminent future. I would and could see them allying with, even if it's only loaning ships and funds, to the other Free Cities.


I wouldn't discount them, either. The Braavosi can call in loans, in the way of offering to no longer hold such things against people or take vasts amounts off if they fight for Braavos. Pre-Littlefinger Westeros had a few Houses indebted to the Iron Bank, so it's not a big surprise that they could help bolster a coalition force, when not even fully invested in it. They are afterall the;

• Wealthiest Free City (Volantis is a close second, but is on the decline)
  
• One of the most productive (Able to produce ships incredibly quickly)
  
• Strong warrior culture
  
• Has an elaborate network of friends and allies
  

They aren't an enemy you want. If Slavery or a strong force threatened their way of life, you'd be in for a fight. There IS a difference between the Valyrian Freehold and Ghiscari Empire. Dragons and what not.

 

[Mion]

Braavos would be joining a slave alliance. And with their number one rival to boot.
Why would they be more interested in it?

I meant to quote your post, basically I meant more interested in keeping out of it.

 

[Archon]

It all comes down to if the new Ghiscari Empire threatens Braavos in the imminent future. I would and could see them allying with, even if it's only loaning ships and funds, to the other Free Cities.
I wouldn't discount them, either. The Braavosi can call in loans, in the way of offering to no longer hold such things against people or take vasts amounts off if they fight for Braavos. Pre-Littlefinger Westeros had a few Houses indebted to the Iron Bank, so it's not a big surprise that they could help bolster a coalition force, when not even fully invested in it. They are afterall the;

• Wealthiest Free City (Volantis is a close second, but is on the decline)
  
• One of the most productive (Able to produce ships incredibly quickly)
  
• Strong warrior culture
  
• Has an elaborate network of friends and allies
  

They aren't an enemy you want. If Slavery or a strong force threatened their way of life, you'd be in for a fight. There IS a difference between the Valyrian Freehold and Ghiscari Empire. Dragons and what not.

But the Ghiscari wouldn't threaten Braavos in the imminent future. I can agree with this, if, the Ghiscari began making their way East on a conquest run starting at Qohor. But they won't, they'll stay in Slaver's bay, and maybe, maybe not, conquer Qarth.


Keep in mind Volantis is Braavos's top rival, and in this situation we're talking about them allying. The majority of the Free Cities outside of Volantis and Braavos likely wouldn't care about New Ghis, and as powerful as Volantis and Braavos are, they wouldn't stand a chance since the only war to happen, would be them going on the attack. New Ghis wouldn't stand a chance if it went on the attack, and for that reason they wouldn't.

I meant to quote your post, basically I meant more interested in keeping out of it.

A war between two of the most powerful slave nations is nothing but good for Braavos, it makes zero sense that they'd choose the side of their biggest rival in such an altercation.

 

[Mion]

But the Ghiscari wouldn't threaten Braavos in the imminent future. I can agree with this, if, the Ghiscari began making their way East on a conquest run starting at Qohor. But they won't, they'll stay in Slaver's bay, and maybe, maybe not, conquer Qarth.
Keep in mind Volantis is Braavos's top rival, and in this situation we're talking about them allying. The majority of the Free Cities outside of Volantis and Braavos likely wouldn't care about New Ghis, and as powerful as Volantis and Braavos are, they wouldn't stand a chance since the only war to happen, would be them going on the attack. New Ghis wouldn't stand a chance if it went on the attack, and for that reason they wouldn't.


A war between two of the most powerful slave nations is nothing but good for Braavos, it makes zero sense that they'd choose the side of their biggest rival in such an altercation.

I hope you realise I am agreeing with you...