Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[Akio]

Just saying my points have no basis doesn't make it true. As you've read others have agreed with me and if anything, pointing out how my assumptions have no basis just weakens your point even more. I've never denied that the Twins are two large fortresses, but if you think trebuchets can't level buildings then you're wrong, but I won't try and make you believe that. They're inaccurate as far as any other large siege machines go, but then again that's the point of firing them in unified volleys. We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.
Idk, but the thing about the Riverlords are how they're never really united, no? Unless someone's full intention was to kill every last man in the Riverlands, I don't see them all uniting to the point where they'll throw everything on the line for House Tully even, especially if Tiber promises to not touch many of the seats so long as they ignore the call to war and even offer to give them land from their hated rivals. It's not out of the question for some to just chill at their seat while the war happens.


It may be impossible if they all strike at the same time, but any good fighter knows to take on one guy very quickly, kill them, and move on to the other. Great fighters can do this within seconds of their reaction time. I agree though that four very determined individuals can kill a fighter much better trained and armed than them, but as you've said it really depends on the individuals involve. I will say to have every single person in any army (or even a good majority) with that much determination and will is not only unrealistic, but impossible.


No one said the Twins is a joke to be run over. It's still a very formidable fortress(es) for most enemies. We're just talking about the strength of one of the major houses being marshaled against it, and against a force that strong any non-major house would have trouble defending really (with the possible exception of the Vale Houses).


I'm... not sure honestly. I've always joked that they weren't invited to the wedding but never gave it serious thought. Perhaps they can go if they accompany the Tullys if the Tullys choose to have them in the entourage?


Some Yi Ti guy use by @Leusis, his name escapes me at the moment. He has a green hat and is the CS page. And yes about the skill warrior part.

I made my own special archer as one of Caydens subordinates, wonder if he could make the shot if his guard kept enemies away from him so he could focus and he had a steady place to stand. He probably wouldnt do it though since hes a stratigist for the most part he would be commanding in the back.

 

[Leusis]

Tai Fang is that characters name, shooting men from ridiculous distances is his game.


Also @Archon if you ever think I'm being unrealistic with Roland call me out. I don't like playing ridiculous overpowered warriors. I like the gritty realism of combat and thus far I don't believe I've gone outside of that.

 

[Archon]

Just saying my points have no basis doesn't make it true. As you've read others have agreed with me and if anything, pointing out how my assumptions have no basis just weakens your point even more. I've never denied that the Twins are two large fortresses, but if you think trebuchets can't level buildings then you're wrong, but I won't try and make you believe that. They're inaccurate as far as any other large siege machines go, but then again that's the point of firing them in unified volleys. We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.
Idk, but the thing about the Riverlords are how they're never really united, no? Unless someone's full intention was to kill every last man in the Riverlands, I don't see them all uniting to the point where they'll throw everything on the line for House Tully even, especially if Tiber promises to not touch many of the seats so long as they ignore the call to war and even offer to give them land from their hated rivals. It's not out of the question for some to just chill at their seat while the war happens.


It may be impossible if they all strike at the same time, but any good fighter knows to take on one guy very quickly, kill them, and move on to the other. Great fighters can do this within seconds of their reaction time. I agree though that four very determined individuals can kill a fighter much better trained and armed than them, but as you've said it really depends on the individuals involve. I will say to have every single person in any army (or even a good majority) with that much determination and will is not only unrealistic, but impossible.


No one said the Twins is a joke to be run over. It's still a very formidable fortress(es) for most enemies. We're just talking about the strength of one of the major houses being marshaled against it, and against a force that strong any non-major house would have trouble defending really (with the possible exception of the Vale Houses).


I'm... not sure honestly. I've always joked that they weren't invited to the wedding but never gave it serious thought. Perhaps they can go if they accompany the Tullys if the Tullys choose to have them in the entourage?


Some Yi Ti guy use by @Leusis, his name escapes me at the moment. He has a green hat and is the CS page. And yes about the skill warrior part.

I wasn't trying to be insulting, but mention the truth in that neither of our points have any real basis since this is all hypothetical - it isn't a real thing, with justified, and fair facts and figures. The Twins don't exist, The Westerlands don't exist, we don't know enough detail to claim things as fact - which is what you were doing, by dismissing the other Tully bannermen from the war. That would be something to do IC, yes. But this is hypothetical Riverlands vs Westerlands, not Westerlands vs some of Riverlands. Using Medieval Total War as an example is not a basis for your point to stand on. Simply stating I am overestimating the strength of the Twins is not a basis for that point to stand on,


And no, a trebuchet cannot level a building with a single strike unless it was made of wood and straw - likely a common house - hunks of rock, hitting hunks of rock is not unlike water hitting stone. The complete destruction of enormous castles through use of basic siege weaponry is not impossible, but two months seems mighty unreasonable.


I'm not quite sure what you're talking about in relation to the Riverroad, since that's exactly what I said in relation to the Crossroads inn... They could travel along the River Road, then branch out onto the King's Road, which would waste valuable in time and put them directly in Northern territory, and unless the North doesn't exist, as a Great House; doesn't a move like that require permission?


And the morale talk was completely unnecessary, I fully realize how big of a factor troop morale is in battle; but I believe you were overestimating how big of an effect just Martyn and Roland can have, considering the Freys are fighting against annihilation like a trapped animal; and the fact that Roland and Martyn would be present in a very limited part of the battle, they'd maybe dishearten twenty to thirty men who see it, but the other several thousand are fighting all the same.

 

[Leusis]

@Archon


You also need to relax a bit as this is a fantasy universe, regardless of how realistic many aspects of it are. It may be extremely rare for a man like Roland or Martyn to exist and be able to kill 10 men by themselves. But its also extremely rare, nearly impossible for Dolar Umber to exist as hes 2 inches taller than the tallest man ever recorded. There are just far more rare things from our world happening in this one. I mean Jaime killed 20 men before he was captured and thats likely impossible in the real world and even Jaime has admitted that there have been many men that are even BETTER than him. So in conclusion its a fantasy realm, just calm down and go wrestle some bears lol.

 

[Archon]

@Archon
You also need to relax a bit as this is a fantasy universe, regardless of how realistic many aspects of it are. It may be extremely rare for a man like Roland or Martyn to exist and be able to kill 10 men by themselves. But its also extremely rare, nearly impossible for Dolar Umber to exist as hes 2 inches taller than the tallest man ever recorded. There are just far more rare things from our world happening in this one. I mean Jaime killed 20 men before he was captured and thats likely impossible in the real world and even Jaime has admitted that there have been many men that are even BETTER than him. So in conclusion its a fantasy realm, just calm down and go wrestle some bears lol.

Yeah, you're right there. Trying to apply real world logic into Asoiaf is pointless, I mean, it has dragons... giants, and magical ice zombies, with a hint of shadow baby magic!

 

[Akio]

Yeah, you're right there. Trying to apply real world logic into Asoiaf is pointless, I mean, it has dragons... giants, and magical ice zombies, with a hint of shadow baby magic!

Also i could be wrong but didnt Jaime rally his troops then charged Robb before he was captured? He probably had his honor guard behind him so him killing 20 men is a lot simpler if he cant be surrounded easily. ((Though he cut down not just peasents but Robbs honor guard who were all decent fighters selected personally and many were lords sons who trained with the sword since they were young so ill be fair on that.

 

[Leusis]

Also I didn't mean Roland and Martyn would route the Frey army by themselves. However they would likely effect a sizeable group of men, possibly a few hundred men very slightly as the men who actually watched them fight would likely tell the story and it would spread through the camp. I'm not saying the men would flee in terror, just that a sizeable group would be disheartened by the news that two of the best knights in the realm are fighting against them. And yes, when men are trapped they tend not to run becasue they have no choice. But if you give them the option to run, a good amount of theem would likely take that chance.

 

[Akio]

Also I didn't mean Roland and Martyn would route the Frey army by themselves. However they would likely effect a sizeable group of men, possibly a few hundred men very slightly as the men who actually watched them fight would likely tell the story and it would spread through the camp. I'm not saying the men would flee in terror, just that a sizeable group would be disheartened by the news that two of the best knights in the realm are fighting against them. And yes, when men are trapped they tend not to run becasue they have no choice. But if you give them the option to run, a good amount of theem would likely take that chance.

Routes have actually been done that way, making there seem like theirs a way out of a hopeless situation only to make them more vulnerable to Calvary and arrows

 

[Archon]

Also I didn't mean Roland and Martyn would route the Frey army by themselves. However they would likely effect a sizeable group of men, possibly a few hundred men very slightly as the men who actually watched them fight would likely tell the story and it would spread through the camp. I'm not saying the men would flee in terror, just that a sizeable group would be disheartened by the news that two of the best knights in the realm are fighting against them. And yes, when men are trapped they tend not to run becasue they have no choice. But if you give them the option to run, a good amount of theem would likely take that chance.

They also fight twice as hard when trapped. And I'm unsure of whether the news of Martyn and Roland would affect that number of troops, anyone who saw them fight - certainly, but those merely hearing stories wouldn't be quite as disheartened.

 

[Leusis]

I know. I'm not saying the men would be terrified by these stories, only that it would slightly effect them, mostly if they came face to face with them after hearing the stories.

 

[WanderingJester]

I wasn't trying to be insulting, but mention the truth in that neither of our points have any real basis since this is all hypothetical - it isn't a real thing, with justified, and fair facts and figures. The Twins don't exist, The Westerlands don't exist, we don't know enough detail to claim things as fact - which is what you were doing, by dismissing the other Tully bannermen from the war. That would be something to do IC, yes. But this is hypothetical Riverlands vs Westerlands, not Westerlands vs some of Riverlands. Using Medieval Total War as an example is not a basis for your point to stand on. Simply stating I am overestimating the strength of the Twins is not a basis for that point to stand on,
And no, a trebuchet cannot level a building with a single strike unless it was made of wood and straw - likely a common house - hunks of rock, hitting hunks of rock is not unlike water hitting stone. The complete destruction of enormous castles through use of basic siege weaponry is not impossible, but two months seems mighty unreasonable.


I'm not quite sure what you're talking about in relation to the Riverroad, since that's exactly what I said in relation to the Crossroads inn... They could travel along the River Road, then branch out onto the King's Road, which would waste valuable in time and put them directly in Northern territory, and unless the North doesn't exist, as a Great House; doesn't a move like that require permission?


And the morale talk was completely unnecessary, I fully realize how big of a factor troop morale is in battle; but I believe you were overestimating how big of an effect just Martyn and Roland can have, considering the Freys are fighting against annihilation like a trapped animal; and the fact that Roland and Martyn would be present in a very limited part of the battle, they'd maybe dishearten twenty to thirty men who see it, but the other several thousand are fighting all the same.

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See what a few shots did to the stone wall? (Not talking about the one that hit the wooden cover) Now imagine hundreds of shots being fired at it every week. I know the walls of the Twins are much larger, but then the rocks hitting the walls there would also be from larger trebuchets. I didn't mean level in a Tarly left no stone unturn at Leafy Lake thing, but rather more of a Tywin collapsing the roof over the heads of House Tarbeck at Tarbeck Hall killing everyone underneath level. There are many different videos of trebuchets taking down stone structures, even outside of fictional works. They can and have collapsed fortress fortifications in the past, that's why they were used at all. If you want ASoIaF example, again, the fact that Tywin left Tarbeck Hall in ruins after a particularly accurate shot from his catapult should be enough to say that they do take down buildings.


Yes I understand all of this is hypothetical, but I'm using facts either as a basis, otherwise we can just say random stuff like giants comes out of nearby cave and kills all the Lannisters or an Ice Dragon swoops down out of nowhere, freezes the river whole and allowing the attackers to swarm all over the fortress. I am using as much ASoIaF canon to base my assumptions on in the context of this scenario, and while we may disagree on things, I don't think anyone's just pull things out of their asses to put on the table.


No, a move like that doesn't violate Northern boundaries. Everything from the Twins down is still part of the Riverlands (really everything from the Neck down), so the army marching around the roads wouldn't require North's permission.


Well, technically only House Frey's members are fighting against extinction. House Lannisters aren't the same as House Tarly (RP wise) in that they'll execute every enemy troops who tries to surrender. In fact most of the common troops, if they throw down their arms, would probably be striped of weapons and armor and sent home. The only people that should be fighting like rabid animals would be the ones that call the twins home, and unless all 3800 men eat, sleep and live in the Twins (which, at that maximum recruitment, they wouldn't. A lot of them would be armed peasantry or tradesmen), they wouldn't be fighting like cornered animals. Also, fear spreads like wildfire. What starts with 20-30 men running away from/surrendering to Martyn or Roland could very well lead to 100 around them following the mob mentality, and then 1000 men after. I mean, a lot of fighting in combat is because people want to see the guy next to them go home as well, so if they're going "screw it" and the enemy's not going to do more than take away the weapons and armor of the men? Why no surrender myself?

 

[Mion]

I don't know if it is just me but I like really powerful warriors such as Guts in Berserk.


It may just be high testosterone levels but I genuinely get way to excited about those kinds of characters lol.

 

[Hypnos]

I think the problem with using real life logic in these situations is that Westeros tends to be a bit exaggerated, my issue with using a [i'm not going to try and spell the name of that siege weapon but you know what I'm talking about] is that walls in Westeros tend to be very thick, Storm's End has walls 40ft wide at its thinest areas and a quick google search tells me that that is the average height of a wall like that, let alone its width.


We don't know the width of the walls of the Twins and we likely never will but I would hazard a guess that they on the top end of real life castle (7ft) or even higher with Westeros' weird proportions, I'm not saying a [???] couldn't break down a wall, I'm just saying it may take longer than you think.

 

[Mion]

To be honest the only siege weapons I know of are, Trebuchets, Siege Onagers, Bombard Canons, Scorpions and Siege Rams.


And that is only because of Age of Empires 2.

 

[WanderingJester]

I think the problem with using real life logic in these situations is that Westeros tends to be a bit exaggerated, my issue with using a [i'm not going to try and spell the name of that siege weapon but you know what I'm talking about] is that walls in Westeros tend to be very thick, Storm's End has walls 40ft wide at its thinest areas and a quick google search tells me that that is the average height of a wall like that, let alone its width.
We don't know the width of the walls of the Twins and we likely never will but I would hazard a guess that they on the top end of real life castle (7ft) or even higher with Westeros' weird proportions, I'm not saying a [???] couldn't break down a wall, I'm just saying it may take longer than you think.

That's fair. I mean I just don't think it would still be faster than just starving someone out of his castle(s) with a surrounding army, you know?

 

[Akio]

That's fair. I mean I just don't think it would still be faster than just starving someone out of his castle(s) with a surrounding army, you know?

Could be if they had time to stock up on foods

 

[WanderingJester]

Could be if they had time to stock up on foods

I mean, even if it's an exaggerated feat (7ft thick walls), they can still come down if hit enough times with rocks. I really don't see the Twins lasting two years like Storm's End with siege weapons constantly stressing the defenses day after day after day, especially since the defenders can't necessarily go outside and patch up the walls in between rounds.

 

[Hypnos]

Is the Lannister wedding going to have a tourney? All good weddings have tourneys. On a similar note is the Tyrell funeral going to have a tourney? All good funerals have tourneys.

 

[Akio]

I mean, even if it's an exaggerated feat (7ft thick walls), they can still come down if hit enough times with rocks. I really don't see the Twins lasting two years like Storm's End with siege weapons constantly stressing the defenses day after day after day, especially since the defenders can't necessarily go outside and patch up the walls in between rounds.

Well its common knowledge that most believe storms end is unassailable, the twins is strong but its not the same

 

[WanderingJester]

Is the Lannister wedding going to have a tourney? All good weddings have tourneys. On a similar note is the Tyrell funeral going to have a tourney? All good funerals have tourneys.

Probably, though more for the sake of the troops around Casterly Rock rather than for the guests involved. Also, not sure whether I want to time skip the Tyrell funeral for it so the Reachlords can make the festivities or not. What do you think?

 

[Hypnos]

Probably, though more for the sake of the troops around Casterly Rock rather than for the guests involved. Also, not sure whether I want to time skip the Tyrell funeral for it so the Reachlords can make the festivities or not. What do you think?

I don't think we should really time bubble it because you never know what could go down with the Reach Lords and certain people could be dead or crippled by the time of the wedding.

 

[WanderingJester]

I don't think we should really time bubble it because you never know what could go down with the Reach Lords and certain people could be dead or crippled by the time of the wedding.

I figured as much as well. I'll just stick to the plan then and do the Wedding later.

 

[Leusis]

I find it odd that Pentos not only let 2,000 mercenaries directly into their city, but also that they're just letting these mercenaries assemble, receive commands and spread out again. If this was my city I'd see that as a danger and tell them to leave.

 

[Leusis]

don't forget just gathering all of them and giving them orders will likely take hours and the negotiations will be over way before that.

 

[Archon]

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See what a few shots did to the stone wall? (Not talking about the one that hit the wooden cover) Now imagine hundreds of shots being fired at it every week. I know the walls of the Twins are much larger, but then the rocks hitting the walls there would also be from larger trebuchets. I didn't mean level in a Tarly left no stone unturn at Leafy Lake thing, but rather more of a Tywin collapsing the roof over the heads of House Tarbeck at Tarbeck Hall killing everyone underneath level. There are many different videos of trebuchets taking down stone structures, even outside of fictional works. They can and have collapsed fortress fortifications in the past, that's why they were used at all. If you want ASoIaF example, again, the fact that Tywin left Tarbeck Hall in ruins after a particularly accurate shot from his catapult should be enough to say that they do take down buildings.


Yes I understand all of this is hypothetical, but I'm using facts either as a basis, otherwise we can just say random stuff like giants comes out of nearby cave and kills all the Lannisters or an Ice Dragon swoops down out of nowhere, freezes the river whole and allowing the attackers to swarm all over the fortress. I am using as much ASoIaF canon to base my assumptions on in the context of this scenario, and while we may disagree on things, I don't think anyone's just pull things out of their asses to put on the table.


No, a move like that doesn't violate Northern boundaries. Everything from the Twins down is still part of the Riverlands (really everything from the Neck down), so the army marching around the roads wouldn't require North's permission.


Well, technically only House Frey's members are fighting against extinction. House Lannisters aren't the same as House Tarly (RP wise) in that they'll execute every enemy troops who tries to surrender. In fact most of the common troops, if they throw down their arms, would probably be striped of weapons and armor and sent home. The only people that should be fighting like rabid animals would be the ones that call the twins home, and unless all 3800 men eat, sleep and live in the Twins (which, at that maximum recruitment, they wouldn't. A lot of them would be armed peasantry or tradesmen), they wouldn't be fighting like cornered animals. Also, fear spreads like wildfire. What starts with 20-30 men running away from/surrendering to Martyn or Roland could very well lead to 100 around them following the mob mentality, and then 1000 men after. I mean, a lot of fighting in combat is because people want to see the guy next to them go home as well, so if they're going "screw it" and the enemy's not going to do more than take away the weapons and armor of the men? Why no surrender myself?

I'm not great on Westerosi geography, I was under the impression that the River Road connected to the Kingsroad at the start of the Neck; and that is Northern Land, but I may be wrong there.


And House Frey would be fighting against extinction, because keep in mind this is if they sallied out and attacked the Westerlands army,at that point there's no offer of surrendering from behind safe walls - since everybody is already in the midst of battle, and surrounded to boot. They can't exactly say "Screw it" when A) If they do, they get chopped up on the battlefield. and B) They're surrounded with nowhere to run. Again, I highly doubt two warriors would have anywhere near that effect, primarily because again the Frey army has nowhere to run, and it starting at 20-30 men is unlikely to reach further than a few hundred due to the scale of an army.


And by no means do I have any belief the Twins would hold out for 2 years, not even close. I'd give them around 9 months, a year at max.