Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[Akio]

Neither Cayden nor Daenna are anywhere near as well respected as Ned, Stannis or Renly. Ned and Stannis were famed war veterans and Renly was just really popular, people believed them because they liked them and had mild evidence (Which to be honest was a bit unfair, there can always be a first time for prominent Lannister features)

Fair enough though if it plants doubt or even just unsettles Kuriva it did something, many are already rebelling about the Iron Throne so they might not care as much but eh

Why would that not bring Daennas legitimacy to doubt as well?
Valyrian genes are weird as they seem to be mostly dominant but can sometimes be the recessive genes.

Never said it might not do so, however Daenna seems to be as traditional Targaryen as it gets. People were willing to believe Ned, Stannis, and Renly partly not just because they're respected but with 3 blond and fair children it was hard to ignore. Stannis even went after Roberts bastard in order to show the difference between them. They got they're comparison in Daenna, she's everything you'd expect of a Targaryen compared to her sisters. One could throw doubt against her, they may find it harder to stick then Kuriva and Aerea.

 

[Mion]

Fair enough though if it plants doubt or even just unsettles Kuriva it did something, many are already rebelling about the Iron Throne so they might not care as much but eh
Never said it might not do so, however Daenna seems to be as traditional Targaryen as it gets. People were willing to believe Ned, Stannis, and Renly partly not just because they're respected but with 3 blond and fair children it was hard to ignore. Stannis even went after Roberts bastard in order to show the difference between them. They got they're comparison in Daenna, she's everything you'd expect of a Targaryen compared to her sisters. One could throw doubt against her, they may find it harder to stick then Kuriva and Aerea.

That was more of a rhetorical question. People believed Ned, Stannis and Renly because it was coming from multiple well liked and admired people, also with the fact that the Baratheon gene had always been dominant so it was odd that the children of the baratheon ALL had Lannister features. Also with the fact a huge powerblock of the Stark-Baratheon-Tully-Arryn alliance on very good relation and large amounts of tension building between them and House Lannister nudged it onwards I think.

 

[Akio]

That was more of a rhetorical question. People believed Ned, Stannis and Renly because it was coming from multiple well liked and admired people, also with the fact that the Baratheon gene had always been dominant so it was odd that the children of the baratheon ALL had Lannister features. Also with the fact a huge powerblock of the Stark-Baratheon-Tully-Arryn alliance on very good relation and large amounts of tension building between them and House Lannister nudged it onwards I think.

At least part of the realm believed Stannis was cockholded by his fool so rumors have power no matter where they come from. If we're speaking about self serving interest other then Ned who would have gotten no direct power from his part other then what Stannis would give him (which anyone who knew Stannis would have been surprised at anything pass thank you) Stannis and Renlys claims could both be considered self serving. Doubt can be cast on Daenna, and one can say it's self serving. But Daenna will likely be hit less then Aerea and Kuriva.

 

[Mion]

At least part of the realm believed Stannis was cockholded by his fool so rumors have power no matter where they come from. If we're speaking about self serving interest other then Ned who would have gotten no direct power from his part other then what Stannis would give him (which anyone who knew Stannis would have been surprised at anything pass thank you) Stannis and Renlys claims could both be considered self serving. Doubt can be cast on Daenna, and one can say it's self serving. But Daenna will likely be hit less then Aerea and Kuriva.

Hardly, Littlefinger made that to slander the one true king it was a complete fabrication to put Stannis into a negative light so people would ignore all the shit that was on Joffery and I would say it was hardly anywhere near half of the realm as you say. I would also say Stannis would have put Ned back in the position that he always wanted to remain in... Warden of the North back at Winterfell with his family, a thank you would have been more than enough as well as Ned remaining honourable. Also self-serving? If Ned was self-serving he wouldn't have planned a coup he would have supported Joffery, really supporting Stannis was rather selfless of him. Renly was definitely self-serving because he wasn't even the heir even if the rumours were true, his whole deal was "People like me more."


Stannis also wasn't self serving, he never wanted to be King but always did his duty, add Melisandre into the mix and Stannis was only doing what he thought he was mean't to do for the good of the realm and even the World.


I would say putting out rumours about Kuvira and Aerea would in the end be pointless unless the Baratheon alliance fails in their rebellion, because if it is true then their whole faction is splintered with Rory being the true king and Braedon no longer having a claim, it would basically splinter until it wasn't a threat and then that means Kuvira would only grow in power and Daenna would be in no position to act out her plan of taking the thrown, she would basically be fucking herself over.

 

[Akio]

Hardly, Littlefinger made that to slander the one true king it was a complete fabrication to put Stannis into a negative light so people would ignore all the shit that was on Joffery and I would say it was hardly anywhere near half of the realm as you say. I would also say Stannis would have put Ned back in the position that he always wanted to remain in... Warden of the North back at Winterfell with his family, a thank you would have been more than enough as well as Ned remaining honourable. Also self-serving? If Ned was self-serving he wouldn't have planned a coup he would have supported Joffery, really supporting Stannis was rather selfless of him. Renly was definitely self-serving because he wasn't even the heir even if the rumours were true, his whole deal was "People like me more."
Stannis also wasn't self serving, he never wanted to be King but always did his duty, add Melisandre into the mix and Stannis was only doing what he thought he was mean't to do for the good of the realm and even the World.


I would say putting out rumours about Kuvira and Aerea would in the end be pointless unless the Baratheon alliance fails in their rebellion, because if it is true then their whole faction is splintered with Rory being the true king and Braedon no longer having a claim, it would basically splinter until it wasn't a threat and then that means Kuvira would only grow in power and Daenna would be in no position to act out her plan of taking the thrown, she would basically be fucking herself over.

For Stannis and Renly I'm talking about how it appears. Ned definitely wasn't self serving and one could say Stannis wasn't etheir but i have little doubt many would have believed them to be serving their own purpose.


The Bartheon alliance is something I completely believe will impload at some point. Their too qualesome for their own good. And your forgetting any possible involvement from Viserys, Sigfried, or Deanna herself especially if Cayden overthrows Elia and takes control of Dornes army. One on one they can't take out the Bartheons but if the Bartheons are fighting in the crownlands the Dornish stabbing then in the back could be devastating especially if Walder is dead by then which would send the Riverlands, their closest reinforcements, into chaos. Not to mention god knows what this guy @WanderingJester is doing with Tiber. By proclaiming Kuriva and Aerea bastards they essentially proclaim Daenna the true ruler of house Targaryens forces. At that point it be a game of how much Kuriva might screw herself over, because then Daenna could lead a rebellion within house Targaryens forces. Most likely it will be the Vale and Gelgin who plays the most affect in that meanwhile Daenna will see what outside support she can get while Cayden works inside. They aren't hurting themselves to a major degree spreading the rumor

 

[Hypnos]

For Stannis and Renly I'm talking about how it appears. Ned definitely wasn't self serving and one could say Stannis wasn't etheir but i have little doubt many would have believed them to be serving their own purpose.
The Bartheon alliance is something I completely believe will impload at some point. Their too qualesome for their own good. And your forgetting any possible involvement from Viserys, Sigfried, or Deanna herself especially if Cayden overthrows Elia and takes control of Dornes army. One on one they can't take out the Bartheons but if the Bartheons are fighting in the crownlands the Dornish stabbing then in the back could be devastating especially if Walder is dead by then which would send the Riverlands, their closest reinforcements, into chaos. Not to mention god knows what this guy @WanderingJester is doing with Tiber. By proclaiming Kuriva and Aerea bastards they essentially proclaim Daenna the true ruler of house Targaryens forces. At that point it be a game of how much Kuriva might screw herself over, because then Daenna could lead a rebellion within house Targaryens forces. Most likely it will be the Vale and Gelgin who plays the most affect in that meanwhile Daenna will see what outside support she can get while Cayden works inside. They aren't hurting themselves to a major degree spreading the rumor

Cayden wont other throw Elia, if the people of Dorne would willingly follow a man who's been gallivanting around Essos for the past four years and generally ignoring Dorne, even during his fathter's death then that would be as stupid as say the Iron Islands following a man who admitted to killing their beloved king, or Dorne being overthrown by a bunch of bastards with no claim to it...


Daenna has no support within Westeros, nobody wants to follow her and she has no potential allies. Even if the Baratheon alliance implodes none of those who are part of it have any desire to follow Daenna, Gelgin isn't exactly going to turn cloak either when he is much safer with Kuvira and neither are the Lords of the Crownlands. Who do you think will give her support?

 

[Akio]

Cayden wont other throw Elia, if the people of Dorne would willingly follow a man who's been gallivanting around Essos for the past four years and generally ignoring Dorne, even during his fathter's death then that would be as stupid as say the Iron Islands following a man who admitted to killing their beloved king, or Dorne being overthrown by a bunch of bastards with no claim to it...
Daenna has no support within Westeros, nobody wants to follow her and she has no potential allies. Even if the Baratheon alliance implodes none of those who are part of it have any desire to follow Daenna, Gelgin isn't exactly going to turn cloak either when he is much safer with Kuvira and neither are the Lords of the Crownlands. Who do you think will give her support?

Right now, no one. We'll see how things go. Right now everyone is still to secure in their positions to really see where she will make an impact.


As for Cayden overthrowing Dorne it may not be as hopeless as you think. Indeed if he tried right now he probably wouldn't get away with it unless he managed to kill Elia and get away with it and inherit on the virtue of being heir. He needs to rebuild his reputation among the Dornish people and there are ways to do that. Even if one could say Elia represents the conservative faction then Cayden could easily represent a militant one. Elia forcefully stopped raiding from Dornish people into the reach and Stormlands and while thats nice and all it likely got her no allies among the stony dornish stopping a tradition they had been doing since before Aegon. Not to mention keeping peace even if it means possibly swearing under a stag king. Dorne is not as militant as the Stormlands but they've never been one to shy from war and made a very big point about choosing their own rulers by resisting two Targaryen invasions yet that is the exact opposite of what their doing now by having Elia hold them back. Somehow i doubt Elias support is so wide spread Cayden has no chance with time to remove Elia from the Throne

 

[Archon]

For Stannis and Renly I'm talking about how it appears. Ned definitely wasn't self serving and one could say Stannis wasn't etheir but i have little doubt many would have believed them to be serving their own purpose.
The Bartheon alliance is something I completely believe will impload at some point. Their too qualesome for their own good. And your forgetting any possible involvement from Viserys, Sigfried, or Deanna herself especially if Cayden overthrows Elia and takes control of Dornes army. One on one they can't take out the Bartheons but if the Bartheons are fighting in the crownlands the Dornish stabbing then in the back could be devastating especially if Walder is dead by then which would send the Riverlands, their closest reinforcements, into chaos. Not to mention god knows what this guy @WanderingJester is doing with Tiber. By proclaiming Kuriva and Aerea bastards they essentially proclaim Daenna the true ruler of house Targaryens forces. At that point it be a game of how much Kuriva might screw herself over, because then Daenna could lead a rebellion within house Targaryens forces. Most likely it will be the Vale and Gelgin who plays the most affect in that meanwhile Daenna will see what outside support she can get while Cayden works inside. They aren't hurting themselves to a major degree spreading the rumor

Don't you fucking touch my pretty Stormlands, Dornish filth.

 

[Akio]

Don't you fucking touch my pretty Stormlands, Dornish filth.

Someone's gotta make that alliance fall apart lol, besides Rory can use it to say his brother does not protect his own vassals so I'm helping you

 

[TheFordee20]

I honestly foresee Cayden biting off way more than he can chew and paying for it- heavily.

 

[Akio]

I honestly foresee Cayden biting off way more than he can chew and paying for it- heavily.

Quite possibly, we already got one example of that in Conn. Never said he would suceed, but the man has to try. I mean what else can Cayden do? Follow Elias orders and twiddle his thumbs in Dorne till the wars over? At this point almost anything Cayden does is risky, unless he were to align himself with another larger faction

 

[Mion]

Right now, no one. We'll see how things go. Right now everyone is still to secure in their positions to really see where she will make an impact.
As for Cayden overthrowing Dorne it may not be as hopeless as you think. Indeed if he tried right now he probably wouldn't get away with it unless he managed to kill Elia and get away with it and inherit on the virtue of being heir. He needs to rebuild his reputation among the Dornish people and there are ways to do that. Even if one could say Elia represents the conservative faction then Cayden could easily represent a militant one. Elia forcefully stopped raiding from Dornish people into the reach and Stormlands and while thats nice and all it likely got her no allies among the stony dornish stopping a tradition they had been doing since before Aegon. Not to mention keeping peace even if it means possibly swearing under a stag king. Dorne is not as militant as the Stormlands but they've never been one to shy from war and made a very big point about choosing their own rulers by resisting two Targaryen invasions yet that is the exact opposite of what their doing now by having Elia hold them back. Somehow i doubt Elias support is so wide spread Cayden has no chance with time to remove Elia from the Throne

To be fair Elia vs Cayden could potentially be more even than people think but you are disregarding the other siblings.

 

[TheFordee20]

Quite possibly, we already got one example of that in Conn. Never said he would suceed, but the man has to try. I mean what else can Cayden do? Follow Elias orders and twiddle his thumbs in Dorne till the wars over? At this point almost anything Cayden does is risky, unless he were to align himself with another larger faction

I'm sorry, but...


#ConnDidNothingWrong

 

[TheAncientCelt]

I'm sorry, but...
#ConnDidNothingWrong

He was born Ironborn though.

 

[Mion]

He was born Ironborn though.

Exactly, thank you for backing us on this

 

[Akio]

To be fair Elia vs Cayden could potentially be more even than people think but you are disregarding the other siblings.

Indeed, though most are controlled by Wolfie and i think Daeron would take Elias side maybe.

I'm sorry, but...
#ConnDidNothingWrong

He bit off more then he could chew if we're talking about that lol


Of course a rebellion in dorne would be really slow because of Wolfie's posting speed

 

[TheFordee20]

I basically see a scenario like this:


[media]





[/media]
Cayden = Doran


Arianne/Daeron= Ellaria


Cayden potentially beats Elia for control over Dorne. However, Arianne or Daeron quickly kill Cayden once he thinks he has won.

 

[Mion]

I basically see a scenario like this:
[media]





[/media]
Cayden = Doran


Arianne/Doran = Ellaria


Cayden potentially beats Elia for control over Dorne. However, Arianne or Daeron quickly kill Cayden once he thinks he has won.

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[TheFordee20]

View attachment 316490

Of course, in our role play it'll probably make a lot more sense.

 

[Akio]

Cayden isn't as exactly as helpless as a man with gout but I see your point


Also that's a terrible scene, I hate the story line of Dorne in the show


Cayden if he managed to overthrow Elia would probably have to lock up his siblings and send others to the water gardens if he wins early on after he succeeds. At least till he knows what side they take or they already supported him before his final stroke.


Also if Elia ever tried to try him for anything trial by combat could get him out of a degree of trouble unless Elia found a really good fighter

 

[Mion]

Cayden isn't as exactly as helpless as a man with gout but I see your point
Also that's a terrible scene, I hate the story line of Dorne in the show


Cayden if he managed to overthrow Elia would probably have to lock up his siblings and send others to the water gardens if he wins early on after he succeeds. At least till he knows what side they take or they already supported him before his final stroke.


Also if Elia ever tried to try him for anything trial by combat could get him out of a degree of trouble unless Elia found a really good fighter

What if Daeron made himself her champion?

 

[Hypnos]

Until now I've considered Cayden a sometimes bumbling yet all in all well meaning person. If he tries to overthrow his sister then I'll lose any sympathy I had for the character.

 

[Akio]

What if Daeron made himself her champion?

That would be one thing to really make him hesitate. Whether it's Ari who's a fighter or Daeron netheir of them are a match for Cayden (thought Ari who spars constantly will probably do better then Daeron) but the question of whether he'd be willing to put his family into the ground would be a turning point etheir way and might cost him his life if he refuses to fight them or refused to land the final blow.

Until now I've considered Cayden a sometimes bumbling yet all in all well meaning person. If he tries to overthrow his sister then I'll lose any sympathy I had for the character.

Technically if he does anything but obey Elias orders to get married and do nothing in Dorne while his sister's and shipped out to be married to maintain neutrality then he's commiting treason already *shrug* I can guarantee you he won't do that

 

[TheFordee20]

Also that's a terrible scene, I hate the story line of Dorne in the show

While, I agree, the scene was terrible- I have made it my head canon that Ellaria didn't mean anything she said. I don't think she is still angry over Oberyn. I don't think she cares about Elia whatsoever. In my head canon, she is a woman who secretly wants power. Once Oberyn dies, she gets it into her head that the people do not care for Doran and that she could easily use Oberyn's bastard daughters to gain her support of the people and power.


So she puts on this facade of actually caring about Elia and Oberyn so she can garner sympathy from the Dornish. Thus leading to her staging a coup and overthrowing Doran.


It is a terrible scene, but thinking Ellaria is doing it for power somehow softens the terrible writing- IMO. Even then it still isn't perfect.

 

[Archon]

I don't know why you could possibly think the Baratheon Alliance needs any "helping hand" in falling apart.


It's already happening, Rory is turning on Braedon.


Walder's days are numbered; and upon his death we have Edmure Benji taking over.


The North made a mistake sending only 20,000 men, there's a large chance The Vale will outright win the war.