Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[Mion]

The Ironborn and the Blackwoods have always been such close friends, I'm sure they share many fond memories of Harrenhal.
House Tully may be oblivious to your treason, but don't think House Bracken has forgotten your crimes.


If we get that Frey-Tully marriage Mallister will be Darwell's mother-in-law, it's always nice to have a claim before you go off conquering.

"I would sooner have your sword inside me than your cock.[1]"


What did she mean by this?

 

[TheAncientCelt]

The Ironborn and the Blackwoods have always been such close friends, I'm sure they share many fond memories of Harrenhal.
House Tully may be oblivious to your treason, but don't think House Bracken has forgotten your crimes.


If we get that Frey-Tully marriage Mallister will be Darwell's mother-in-law, it's always nice to have a claim before you go off conquering.

Oh look.


The Bracken's allowed the Hoares to conquer the Riverlands, possibly the most brutal House and strongest before the Targaryen's.


Wow.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

. . .We need a revival of House Hoare.

 

[Mion]

. . .We need a revival of House Hoare.

Siegfried is the succesor of House Hoare thank you very much

 

[Hypnos]

Oh look.
The Bracken's allowed the Hoares to conquer the Riverlands, possibly the most brutal House and strongest before the Targaryen's.


Wow.

I believe you're misremembering, Lothar Bracken died fighting against House Hoare for the good of the Riverlands, he hardly invited them in. Just because two people are fighting the same enemy does not make them allies (The Reach and the West are both fighting the Iron Born) This is vastly different to when the Blackwoods made a deal with the vile Storm Lords to crown them kings if that's what you were thinking of.

 

[Akio]

You know when Centurion actually posts for his Blackwood's this fight will be fun to catch for those not directly involved

 

[Ser Davos Seaworth]

@TheFordee14 If you're going to be online today just know that I have work for around four hours today and if it's slow I'll be on and off most of the night

 

[Leusis]

@Veyd Sahvoz time-skipped to the Neck, check the last post; and your grossly understating just how long it would take for the Vale's banners to gather for an attack along with the North. The Vale isn't a small place, Tadhg called the banners and set off the march ahead of time - to save time - so the houses further away were forced to catch up. The Vale on the other hand still needs to actually attack, the whole "Riverlands ded" equation is completely dismissing that massive force in Maidenpool. The Riverlords aren't going to sit around and watch, are they?
Have Frey soldiers reinforce Seagard, with a token-force to hold the Twins, and have the Riverland's armies contest the Vale assault. It really is that simple. The Ironborn could easily win Seagard, but why would they bother when they're going lose a crap-load of troops? Then the Vale is going to get fucked up by the North when they arrive, regardless of whether they beat the Riverland's army decisively or not.

Regardless of the fact that he time skipped to the neck, getting there from Winterfell would take a month, and another to get to the Crossing. Nothing has happened in the Vale for a while now and the banners were called there before the north had its banners called because they were ordered to first. The only reason the Vale isn't already marching out of the mountains is because @Fezzes hasn't made a post with Gelgin in months. To got from Winterfell to Moat Calin is about a 300 mile march, your average army marches around 12 miles a day, and thats in good weather on a path. The north never has good weather and the lands a ruggid, so saying it would take a month just to march there is generous. The distance between Moat Calin and the Crossing is roughly similar, so thats another month.


Regardless of what you think, the North won't be a part of this war for quite a while, and even when they do come down, it could be too late because people are going to start fighting each other in the Riverlands the moment they hear that they're being attacked from the east and west and the army Walder has gathered in Maidenpool won't be nearly as strong as they would be normally. These are the weaknesses of the north and Riverlands. One takes forever to gather and go anywhere even if they're in a rush and the other has lords that squabble like children. They're both part of the largest alliance in Westeros with the most troops by far, but that doesn't mean they get to just crush everybody in an unrealistic fashion.

 

[Akio]

The Vale has a pretty good chance against the Riverlands and the currently gathered northern forces if they move with the Mountain clans. The Mountain clansmen are savages but they are many and rough and will gladly rape the Riverlands while the Vale uses them as meatshields. While Kuriva only has the Vale and Crownlands in alliance the Vale is one of the most well rounded nations for combat and right now their under a very very good commander while the person who holds the Riverlands together Walder isn't even around and right now even most of the Tully's are gone while this situation develops. In sustained warfare without the help of the Iron born the Vale would be forced to retreat in sustained warfare when the rest of the north arrives and after taking attrition in the Riverlands but if the Iron born hit seaguard and raid up the Trident it would not be far to say the quarrelsome Riverlands could fall apart saying the Tully's aren't supporting them, especially because km sure many disagree with Walders choice to ally the Stormlords

 

[Akio]

Not to mention if Seaguard is taken a lot of Tully's could find themselves at risk entirely of making it back to Riverrun and not running into hostile houses and Iron born

 

[Archon]

Regardless of the fact that he time skipped to the neck, getting there from Winterfell would take a month, and another to get to the Crossing. Nothing has happened in the Vale for a while now and the banners were called there before the north had its banners called because they were ordered to first. The only reason the Vale isn't already marching out of the mountains is because @Fezzes hasn't made a post with Gelgin in months. To got from Winterfell to Moat Calin is about a 300 mile march, your average army marches around 12 miles a day, and thats in good weather on a path. The north never has good weather and the lands a ruggid, so saying it would take a month just to march there is generous. The distance between Moat Calin and the Crossing is roughly similar, so thats another month.
Regardless of what you think, the North won't be a part of this war for quite a while, and even when they do come down, it could be too late because people are going to start fighting each other in the Riverlands the moment they hear that they're being attacked from the east and west and the army Walder has gathered in Maidenpool won't be nearly as strong as they would be normally. These are the weaknesses of the north and Riverlands. One takes forever to gather and go anywhere even if they're in a rush and the other has lords that squabble like children. They're both part of the largest alliance in Westeros with the most troops by far, but that doesn't mean they get to just crush everybody in an unrealistic fashion.

I mean no offence when I say this, but could you please stop making assumptions about my points?


I never said that because they are apart of the strongest faction they get to stomp everybody.


And regardless of what you think, the Riverlords aren't as squabbly as, say, the Reach, but when facing a foreign invasion, they are going to band together bar one or two exceptions. That's just a matter of fact, look at the events of the show, the books, whatever. It was the Frey's who betrayed the Tullys, not half the Riverlords. They aren't as unstable as you think in times of war, where they are all at risk. You also completely disregard the fact that for the Riverlords to even splinter like you suggest, they'd have to be utterly crushed by the Vale.


The Mountain raided the Riverlands as successfully as any Ironborn could, and it didn't cause everyone to abandon Hoster/Edmure for a different side.


Regardless, the Ironborn don't even have designs on the Riverlands; so if anything, it's the Vale who are screwed because the Riverlands aren't being attacked on two front, and the North are on the way - and no, it won't be too late. Wars between Great Houses don't end in a few weeks; MAYBE if Walder dies, but even when Hoster died, and the Riverlands were in waaay worse odds than Benji will be in, much of the Riverlands still fought with the Tullys.

 

[Leusis]

@Archon


I get that I might sound like a dick telling you what is and what isn't. But war, especially medieval is something I know very well as Ive read dozens of books and put several hundreds of hours of research into war in general over all preiods of time. I know how long it takes an army to move certain distances with certain types of weather and terrain, I know how long it takes to muster forces, even just the men-at-arms in a castle and the levies that live around it. The North is not going to be in the south any time soon, and yes, if they arrive before the Riverlands cracks theres a good chance they could turn the tide if they aren't too late, because the north has great warriors.


I'm just trying to get the point across that under the specific pressures I've listed there is a good chance the Riverlands will crumble before the North arrives. And I don't know everything, and I'll admit that completely, but I do know quite a bit and I'd like to to recognize that or bring me sources that show that I'm wrong, or at least give me an argument I can't counter with my own knowledge on the subject.

 

[Archon]

The Vale has a pretty good chance against the Riverlands and the currently gathered northern forces if they move with the Mountain clans. The Mountain clansmen are savages but they are many and rough and will gladly rape the Riverlands while the Vale uses them as meatshields. While Kuriva only has the Vale and Crownlands in alliance the Vale is one of the most well rounded nations for combat and right now their under a very very good commander while the person who holds the Riverlands together Walder isn't even around and right now even most of the Tully's are gone while this situation develops. In sustained warfare without the help of the Iron born the Vale would be forced to retreat in sustained warfare when the rest of the north arrives and after taking attrition in the Riverlands but if the Iron born hit seaguard and raid up the Trident it would not be far to say the quarrelsome Riverlands could fall apart saying the Tully's aren't supporting them, especially because km sure many disagree with Walders choice to ally the Stormlords

I'm also sure even more disagree with Gelgin backing what appears to be a lost cause alliance. ((At the moment at least))


Also, the Mountain Clansmen of the Vale? What about the Northern Mountain Clans? They both have meatshields.


And isn't Gelgin at King's Landing?! Also not around?


Also, I need to have Dolar and his Umber's thrown in battle against the Mountain Clansmen; would be epic.

 

[Archon]

@Archon
I get that I might sound like a dick telling you what is and what isn't. But war, especially medieval is something I know very well as Ive read dozens of books and put several hundreds of hours of research into war in general over all preiods of time. I know how long it takes an army to move certain distances with certain types of weather and terrain, I know how long it takes to muster forces, even just the men-at-arms in a castle and the levies that live around it. The North is not going to be in the south any time soon, and yes, if they arrive before the Riverlands cracks theres a good chance they could turn the tide if they aren't too late, because the north has great warriors.


I'm just trying to get the point across that under the specific pressures I've listed there is a good chance the Riverlands will crumble before the North arrives. And I don't know everything, and I'll admit that completely, but I do know quite a bit and I'd like to to recognize that or bring me sources that show that I'm wrong, or at least give me an argument I can't counter with my own knowledge on the subject.

I fully knowledge the fact you do know what you're talking about - far more than me, I just don't want you thinking I meant something I didn't. Like "Hur de dur, Baratheon alliance stronk. Riverland hef to win." I just believe that they have a better chance than is made out, I'm only using the events of the canon as my source; and what happened in A Clash of Kings.

 

[Leusis]

I mean no offence when I say this, but could you please stop making assumptions about my points?
I never said that because they are apart of the strongest faction they get to stomp everybody.


And regardless of what you think, the Riverlords aren't as squabbly as, say, the Reach, but when facing a foreign invasion, they are going to band together bar one or two exceptions. That's just a matter of fact, look at the events of the show, the books, whatever. It was the Frey's who betrayed the Tullys, not half the Riverlords. They aren't as unstable as you think in times of war, where they are all at risk. You also completely disregard the fact that for the Riverlords to even splinter like you suggest, they'd have to be utterly crushed by the Vale.


The Mountain raided the Riverlands as successfully as any Ironborn could, and it didn't cause everyone to abandon Hoster/Edmure for a different side.


Regardless, the Ironborn don't even have designs on the Riverlands; so if anything, it's the Vale who are screwed because the Riverlands aren't being attacked on two front, and the North are on the way - and no, it won't be too late. Wars between Great Houses don't end in a few weeks; MAYBE if Walder dies, but even when Hoster died, and the Riverlands were in waaay worse odds than Benji will be in, much of the Riverlands still fought with the Tullys.

Also at this point the Vale should already have an army in the Riverlands, only reason it doesn't is because there hasn't been a Gelgin post stating such. There is still easily a month before the North gets into Riverlands territory, likely another before they can even confront the Vale or join the Riverlands forces. And thats if the Vale doesn't get word of the North coming and instantly start marching towards them. If that happened it would be 20,000 northmen against 30,000-35,000 Valemen and the fight would be very one sided and the North would be crushed before they could meet with the Riverlands forces. There are just so many things you're not accounting for that are a possibility, not saying they WILL happen, but they could. And it seems to me your mindset seems to be more of "No, North arrives and we instantly win, nothing you can do, we have more men" whhen first you have to join forces for the North to mean anything in the war.

 

[Leusis]

I'm also sure even more disagree with Gelgin backing what appears to be a lost cause alliance. ((At the moment at least))
Also, the Mountain Clansmen of the Vale? What about the Northern Mountain Clans? They both have meatshields.


And isn't Gelgin at King's Landing?! Also not around?


Also, I need to have Dolar and his Umber's thrown in battle against the Mountain Clansmen; would be epic.

Mountains clansmen of the north are counted among the bannermen of the Starks. Clansmen of the Vale are not, so essentially the North has 50,000 counting their clansmen while the Vale has 50,000 not counting their clansmen. Because usually the Vale clansmen aren't fighting for the Vale and they still aren't, they've just been directed at the Riverlands.

 

[Mion]

Mountains clansmen of the north are counted among the bannermen of the Starks. Clansmen of the Vale are not, so essentially the North has 50,000 counting their clansmen while the Vale has 50,000 not counting their clansmen. Because usually the Vale clansmen aren't fighting for the Vale and they still aren't, they've just been directed at the Riverlands.

Wait when did this happen?


I thought the Mountain clansmen despised the Andals in the Vale and felt that they stole their land from them?

 

[Archon]

Also at this point the Vale should already have an army in the Riverlands, only reason it doesn't is because there hasn't been a Gelgin post stating such. There is still easily a month before the North gets into Riverlands territory, likely another before they can even confront the Vale or join the Riverlands forces. And thats if the Vale doesn't get word of the North coming and instantly start marching towards them. If that happened it would be 20,000 northmen against 30,000-35,000 Valemen and the fight would be very one sided and the North would be crushed before they could meet with the Riverlands forces. There are just so many things you're not accounting for that are a possibility, not saying they WILL happen, but they could. And it seems to me your mindset seems to be more of "No, North arrives and we instantly win, nothing you can do, we have more men" whhen first you have to join forces for the North to mean anything in the war.

I apologize for coming across as that way, I definitely did not mean it; and I definitely believe the North are not going to win this war for anyone, but for a Vale force to combat the North, they'd need to detach from their main force who have to continue the fight with the Riverlands. I also believe you aren't taking losses appropriately into account. The Vale will lose men storming castles, and even more with inevitable Riverland-army battles. I believe even with Stark support the Vale has a very good shot of a Pyrrhic Victory; but I wouldn't overstimate how effective Mountain Clansmen are; terrible equipment, questionable loyalty, and a definitive liability to Gelgin's main force; I doubt they are going to be getting on with the Knight's of the Vale, do you?


But again, I feel our accused mindsets are conflicting; because I'm getting the vibe from you, that the Vale is going to roll over the Riverlands and the North effortlessly. You don't believe that, and I don't believe the North will roll up and save the day.

 

[Leusis]

Wait when did this happen?
I thought the Mountain clansmen despised the Andals in the Vale and felt that they stole their land from them?

Andar went out and met with a clansmen chief, told him the Riverlands were coming to rape their women and take their land again and that they saw the clansmen as weak and inferior. The clansmen are very war like and prideful so this pissed off the chief and Andar told him that the man who planned all of this lived in the wetlands to the west in stone houses. Andar also told him that if they didn't fight together that essentially everybody in the vale including the clansmen would have their homeland taken just like it was from the clansmen thousands of years ago.


The plan essentially was piss off one powerful and influential chief, have him tell a bunch of other clans to piss them off and get the clansmen to start raiding the Riverlands. No way they'll go that far out from the mountains, but its better than nothing.

 

[TheFordee20]

@TheFordee14[/URL] If you're going to be online today just know that I have work for around four hours today and if it's slow I'll be on and off most of the night

I'll try and get a post up later tonight. Sorry about that. I've had my hands full the last two or so days.

 

[Leusis]

I apologize for coming across as that way, I definitely did not mean it; and I definitely believe the North are not going to win this war for anyone, but for a Vale force to combat the North, they'd need to detach from their main force who have to continue the fight with the Riverlands. I also believe you aren't taking losses appropriately into account. The Vale will lose men storming castles, and even more with inevitable Riverland-army battles. I believe even with Stark support the Vale has a very good shot of a Pyrrhic Victory; but I wouldn't overstimate how effective Mountain Clansmen are; terrible equipment, questionable loyalty, and a definitive liability to Gelgin's main force; I doubt they are going to be getting on with the Knight's of the Vale, do you?
But again, I feel our accused mindsets are conflicting; because I'm getting the vibe from you, that the Vale is going to roll over the Riverlands and the North effortlessly. You don't believe that, and I don't believe the North will roll up and save the day.

I'm not saying anybody is going to roll over anybody, I'm just saying this war is a lot closer than you're making it sound, especially if the Ironborn come to raid the Riverlands. Both sides are going to get absolutely wrecked from the fighting thats going to take place, but if the Ironborn raid the Riverlands, I believe the Vale has just as much of a chance if not more to win.

 

[Archon]

I'm not saying anybody is going to roll over anybody, I'm just saying this war is a lot closer than you're making it sound, especially if the Ironborn come to raid the Riverlands. Both sides are going to get absolutely wrecked from the fighting thats going to take place, but if the Ironborn raid the Riverlands, I believe the Vale has just as much of a chance if not more to win.

Sorry, I also believe it is a very close-call. The only thing I still disagree with is the likelihood of the Riverlands splintering; they didn't when under far worse conditions in A Clash of Kings. But even if they don't, the Vale can still take the win -- that'll be when the Riverlords splinter.

 

[Akio]

I swear @SirDerpingtonIV and @Lancelot are trying to Viserys Cayden and trap him in a room as they perpetually act lazy or post other point of views lol

 

[Leusis]

Sorry, I also believe it is a very close-call. The only thing I still disagree with is the likelihood of the Riverlands splintering; they didn't when under far worse conditions in A Clash of Kings. But even if they don't, the Vale can still take the win -- that'll be when the Riverlords splinter.

Also, I'll be sure to NPC some mountain clansmen attacking Dolar and his troops if he ever splits from the main force while closeish to the mountains of the moon, just for you bud.

 

[Akio]

Sorry, I also believe it is a very close-call. The only thing I still disagree with is the likelihood of the Riverlands splintering; they didn't when under far worse conditions in A Clash of Kings. But even if they don't, the Vale can still take the win -- that'll be when the Riverlords splinter.

Well at the Very least I think it's fair to Say without a central Tully force to command them most will see to defending their own seats, and if the Iron born attack they will find it very hard to make it back and being attacked from both directions will make things difficult for the Tully's to return safetly to the Riverlands