[Shatter the Circle] Main OOC Thread

Grrr...today has gone sideways. Post tomorrow - Wolf is going to cut this conversation short by ripping his throat out.


Seems like a thing to do.
 
Just to save you time - go ahead and describe doing just that.


Dude has no way to stop you, a Full Moon Lunar, from ripping out his throat.
 
Silent Wayfarer - your dude may happen upon the scene at anytime. Technically all the stuff you did would leave you busy for the next few hours, but in the interest of speeding things along, you can show up at the broken door that has a notable lack of guards.


The other two are much farther in, towards the back.
 
I'm holding off on replying until CrazyIvan can get a chance to answer Misuro's question, 'cause I'm fairly certain we're all about to go ghost hunting. :tongue:
 
Playing someone who isn't aware of the past 300 years of Creation's history is proving remarkably enjoyable.


- Solars? Gone


- The Scarlet Empress? Her ass is still on the throne


- The undead? An inconvenient menace
 
Not the Shogunate era, but the height of the Scarlet Empire. The "state of the World" when Wolf left had the Empire as the undisputed Masters of Creation, the Solars locked in the Jade Prison, and since the Great Contagion never got traced to them, the Deadlords as...well...as nothing.
 
I owe you a totally rock'n update. If it isn't out tonight, I'll try to get it out tomorrow night.
 
I really dislike the drug "Bright Morning" from the view that it is a cheap way to get around an Occult 5 Essence 3 celestial level charm.


Considering that it takes Dragonblooded long hard training in a Terrestrial MA in order to be able to see and hit dematerialized spirits - I don't like the idea of a cheap alternative drug replacing two charms. Charms that Misuro has already purchased.
 
Technically, it takes them two Celestial MA Charms and ST-defined privation; but I get your meaning. How about thaumaturgical means? For instance:


Deathsight (1, Perception, 3, 5 minutes )Lets the user perceive immaterial ghosts for the rest of the scene. (Oadenol's Codex)


Ghost-Smiting Salt Weapon (0, Intelligence, 2, 5 minutes ) Allows the thaumaturge to strike an immaterial ghost with that weapon for one scene. (Scroll of Kings)


Of coruse, they each take 5 minutes each to cast, assuming you allowed them.
 
Uh...so, confession time. I know nothing about thaumaturgy, and nothing about Dragon Kings. (Aside from the fact I'm sick of them and they have never struck me as interesting.)


At this point it seems appropriate to ask everyone what they think of thaumaturgy, and whether it should be part of this game's setting. Also whether the above thaumaturgies are allowed, too.


After all, if it's in the setting, then other people can do it, too. This changes the flavor of things - for instance, more people can hit back at ghosts if the thaumaturgies work. Right?


Er. Maybe I should also ask for a rundown on thaumaturgy, while I'm at it. *sheepish grin*
 
From what I've been able to gather, Thaumaturgy is somewhat cost-prohibitive, but has some useful effects in it. Good for mortals, although Exalted Charms (and Sorcery) tend to blow it out of the water, literally, in some cases.


I know nothing about it beyond that, and know very little about the Dragon Kings.
 
Kacie said:
Uh...so, confession time. I know nothing about thaumaturgy, and nothing about Dragon Kings. (Aside from the fact I'm sick of them and they have never struck me as interesting.)
At this point it seems appropriate to ask everyone what they think of thaumaturgy, and whether it should be part of this game's setting. Also whether the above thaumaturgies are allowed, too.
Click to expand...
Well, thaumaturgy is basically "minor magic". It's time consuming and stuff and reflects the "applied sciences" portion of Occult (if we go by the definition that Occult is that branch of science pertaining to Essence manipulation and Lore is everything else.

After all, if it's in the setting, then other people can do it, too. This changes the flavor of things - for instance, more people can hit back at ghosts if the thaumaturgies work. Right?
Click to expand...
This is true. It's basically meant to give real (if minor) power to various mystical rituals, and to facilitate things like mortal alchemists and so on. If you presume that messing with Essence is not the sole province of spirits and Exalted, then thaumaturgy is essentially "mortal Charms" for use by enlightened mortals. They're much, much weaker compared to actual Charms that the Exalted have and usually take a bigger time investment and need reagents and stuff, though Exalts can bypass the need for reagents with Essence.


It seemed like a nice and flavorful thing to give the Twilight of the group. A houserule I've seen is to allow anyone at all a number of Procedures equal to their Occult score and to allow Exalted to replicate any thaumaturgy if they feel like it and have sufficient occult background.

Er. Maybe I should also ask for a rundown on thaumaturgy, while I'm at it. *sheepish grin*
Click to expand...
Thaumaturgy is divided into the Arts, which deal with everything from Animal Husbandry to Astrology. The specific things you can do with Thaumaturgy are called Procedures. GHost-Smiting Salt Weapon is a Procedure, as is Deathsight, as is Ward Against Ghosts.


Procedures have Degrees associated with them. THis is something like your skill at a certain Art. You buy up a Degree at 10xp (8xp if Occult is favored), and every Degree you have gives you access to all the Procedures within that Art which your Degree qualifies you for. Alternatively, you can spend 1xp and learn any one Procedure, regardless of Degree.


Let's take Deathsight as an example.

Deathsight
Click to expand...
This is the name of the procedure.

(1, Perception, 3, 5 minutes )
Click to expand...
This is the actual game information. The first number is the Degree, this can range from 0 to 3. This is the number of Degrees in an Art that you need to know the Procedure as part of the Degree. Yes, this means that certain Procedures with a Degree of 0 are available to anyone with a single dot of Occult. Also, the Degree of the Procedure usually implies an amount of material reagents are required to perform it; Degree 0 and 1 Procedures usually only need Resources 1 worth, Degree 2 Procedures usually need Resources 2-3 worth, and Degree 3 Procedures usually need Resources 4-5 worth. Exalts can bypass the Resources requirement by spending motes.


Next is an Attribute. This Attribute is paired with Occult and rolled to determine the efficacy of the Procedure. It should be noted that Degrees act as specialty dice for a thaumaturgy roll. So 2 Degrees in the Art of the Dead would give you two extra dice (counting as specialty dice) for any roll to use Procedures from the Art of the Dead,


The third number is the difficulty of the procedure. You need to get this many hits on your Attribute + Occult roll to successfully enact the Procedure.


The last number is the time it takes to perform the Procedure.

Lets the user perceive immaterial ghosts for the rest of the scene.
Click to expand...
This is the effect of the Procedure.

(Oadenol's Codex)
Click to expand...
This is the source of the Procedure.


Dragon Kings were mentioned because they developed thaumaturgy for use by humanity. Since humans could not master their Ten Paths of Prehuman Mastery and they needed skilled lab monkeys to help them, they developed simple techniques of Essence manipulation and taught them to humanity in order to better assist with things. If this reminds you of the gods teaching the newly-minted Exalted how to make and use Charms and the Exalted running wild with it, you would be correct. The term Chosen, frequently applied to the Exalted, was actually derived from the Dragon King word olchilike, which were Dragon Kings chosen to be possessed by a god to become incredibly powerful. You can see how it got associated with the Exalted.


Endeth the sermon.
 
I do not mind thaumaturgy in the game, although I will say that if PCs are going to use it, they should still be required to buy the actual degree/procedure/whatever, as it offers stuff that can be very potent if thrown about without limit (sorry, Silent Wayfarer).


I am not opposed to reduced costs, however, because Exalted Charms can outclass it utterly. It's magic for mortals, ultimately.
 
What stuff, stacking wards and potions? I won't go near that shit. Half of the latter only work on mortals anyway.


I mean, it's not like I even care that much about it, it just seemed like a flavorful/thematic way for a guy who Exalted as a Twilight to do things. It is a huge pain in the ass to have to spend XP that could go toward Charms on inferior mortal crap.
 
I'd need to do a bit of digging to find you the stuff that can get a little bonkers, but it's out there. That said, Charms > Thaumaturgy all day everyday forever, so if you don't really care about thaumaturgy, go for charms and let the mortals have their schtick. ;)
 
I think in the end thaumaturgy is just going to be stunt fodder.


And if you have to dig deep to find the brokenness, wouldn't it be better to just say no to the broken bits rather than charge more for it? :P
 
The two Exalted games I play in are tripping over themselves with Dragon Kings. I'd rather not have them in the game, period, let alone have them take credit for teaching human mortals how to do thaumaturgy. In one game, we're traipsing about on a world owned by them, and in the other they're a bunch of asshole fanatics speaking in Aztec whom I nicely did not slaughter. Fuck dragon kings. I do not need proto-master-race-time-rejected humanoid dinosaurs in my Exalted game.


Okay. Ending my rant on them, now.


I do not like thaumaturgy resource costs being paid for with motes; if you can do true essence manipulation, then thaumaturgy ought to feel like a cheap hack, and not a very good one. Or in other words, if you want to mortal magic, then do thaumaturgy, but it's mortal magic, and trying to mix real Essence manipulation with it doesn't work or gets unpredictable results.


I also loath the Arts/Degrees (which in and of itself is a terrible naming scheme, White Wolf) - let the mortals worry about that!


Silent Wayfarer and I gchatted, and agreed that thaumaturgy for Exalts should mostly be stunting fodder for the charms an Exalt already has. The low-level thaumaturgy stuff (degree 0?) a high Occult character can probably do for real, but probably needs to pay 1xp to properly learn. And most of the time, just get the charm. Don't sweat the small stuff, in this case.


So, yeah, mostly encouraging you guys to not bother with that stuff as it's beneath you. *wink*


I'd like to speed things along to the confrontation in the docks, because the only interesting thing about any of this is the choices you, the Exalted, make. And I owe you some Epic. Narrate your way down the merest ghostly trail to the docks, and we'll keep things moving!


...yeah, I should have got with the classic intro of "You're in a desperate fight with three spirits, a second circle demon, and a circle of Immaculates - as you plummet towards Creation's surface from 5000 ft. Go!"


My bad. *sad face*
 
"...and then you are woken from your recollection of how you three met, the wind screaming past your ears as you plunge toward Creation from five miles up, at a hair under the speed of sound while Alveua tries to smack you in free-fall with her improbably huge hammer. Ah, Mondays."
 
Yeah, we'll definitely have to do the five mile drop at some point.


Oh wait - none of you have Sail. We're already set to go on that one!
 
"So this is how I hammered out a solid metal parachute from the flaming wreckage of the Skywolf with a demoness' hammer. While in freefall."
 
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