HoratioAtTheBridge
Member
I'd say that it strongly depends on how much you want to make player characters subject to social attacks. Which is strongly dependent on how much we want to be subject to social attacks. I kind of like my character being able to be manipulated, but at the same time I don't like getting instantly destroyed by a single attack. I think it would be acceptable to me if social attacks weren't a death sentence. In DnD 4th edition, for example, they de-powered the Charm and Dominate type effects so that they only have a limited impact on the players (and NPCs). In battle, for instance, a Dominate only lasts until your character saves against it (about a round or two, so you're only out of the fight for a short time), and the worse thing that the dominator can make you do is make a basic attack against one of your allies. So, really, it just becomes a way to take an opponent out of the fight briefly, as well as gain some small damage out of it. You're not going to lose magic items, or have your powers be expended, or anything else too debilitating or long term. So, one thing I'd say is that social attacks should be fairly limited in scope, though what that means in Exalted is going to be quite different from what it means in DnD. Basically, I'd say that no-one should die over it, and no-one should lose something of importance to them over it. There should probably be a discussion of what we consider to be of importance.
Of course, this also depends on who we're going to be facing. Social combat is a major theme for the Fae, and if we're going to face them the consequences of social combat should be ramped up so that facing a Fae in social combat feels as intense and scary as facing an Abyssal Dusk Caste in a duel.
There's also the issue that Virtues and Limit are a big deal in Exalted, though I have yet to play in a game where I've actually seen them enforced to any great degree because they really tend to restrict people. I'm interested in seeing them assume a greater role, if only because I haven't before, but I wouldn't want to force other people to deal with them if they'd rather not.
As to the specific situation, I don't think that Lost Mountain's response of "controlling your beast is your own responsibility" really answers the allegations of cowardice. Yeah, it's true, but it doesn't demonstrate Lost Mountain's bravery. Now, something dismissive like "fighting the demon proves nothing" or "true valor is not shown in meaningless duels" might be more effective, as might "who are you to question my courage?!?"
However, if we're going to get into the mechanical effects of that exchange, it should be noted that a glib response from Lost Mountain is not enough to completely negate a social attack, but neither does a well-worded post constitute an automatically successful social attack. Both of those would be considered to be stunts which modify the rolls. Nkemdilim would have had to roll something, perhaps Manipulation + Presence, vs. Lost Mountain's Mental DVs. Since Nkemdilim appealed to one of Lost Mountain's ruling virtues (rated 3 or higher), that imposes a -2 external penalty to Lost Mountain's DV. However, Nkemdilim would take a 1 or 2 die internal penalty for not speaking the language very well. Nkemdilim's accusation wasn't particularly strong, so that would perhaps be a 1 die stunt (if he'd spoken the language well enough for me to more fully develop an accusation, I might have been able to parlay Lost Mountain's lack of action in the caves into a greater bonus, though if I had it would have been easy enough to point out that Lost Mountain didn't get much of a chance to display valor in the cave, since most of the dangerous situations were resolved before he had an opportunity to react). As for Lost Mountain's response, I'd say it would be a 1 die stunt if it were applied to his Dodge MDV, but would certainly be worth two dice if he decided to use his Parry MDV, since it took the form of a counterargument rather than a flat-out rejection of the initial attack.
Lost Mountain would have to fail a valor roll to refuse the challenge only if Nkemdilim had succeeded in the attack, and even if he failed to fail he could have spent a willpower point and added a point of Limit to turn away from the attack anyway. Given Lost Mountain's cool-headed reaction, I'd say that it's probably most reasonable to say that Nkemdilim failed in the attack. He just didn't present a credible challenge to Lost Mountain's valor, so Lost Mountain didn't feel like his valor was ever in question. Thus, no need to fail a valor roll.
Now, the following attack on Lost Mountain's ability to trust himself, which goes against Conviction...Lost Mountain's reaction indicates that Nkemdilim just might have touched a nerve on that one. But that's really more up to Brickwall.
Of course, this also depends on who we're going to be facing. Social combat is a major theme for the Fae, and if we're going to face them the consequences of social combat should be ramped up so that facing a Fae in social combat feels as intense and scary as facing an Abyssal Dusk Caste in a duel.
There's also the issue that Virtues and Limit are a big deal in Exalted, though I have yet to play in a game where I've actually seen them enforced to any great degree because they really tend to restrict people. I'm interested in seeing them assume a greater role, if only because I haven't before, but I wouldn't want to force other people to deal with them if they'd rather not.
As to the specific situation, I don't think that Lost Mountain's response of "controlling your beast is your own responsibility" really answers the allegations of cowardice. Yeah, it's true, but it doesn't demonstrate Lost Mountain's bravery. Now, something dismissive like "fighting the demon proves nothing" or "true valor is not shown in meaningless duels" might be more effective, as might "who are you to question my courage?!?"
However, if we're going to get into the mechanical effects of that exchange, it should be noted that a glib response from Lost Mountain is not enough to completely negate a social attack, but neither does a well-worded post constitute an automatically successful social attack. Both of those would be considered to be stunts which modify the rolls. Nkemdilim would have had to roll something, perhaps Manipulation + Presence, vs. Lost Mountain's Mental DVs. Since Nkemdilim appealed to one of Lost Mountain's ruling virtues (rated 3 or higher), that imposes a -2 external penalty to Lost Mountain's DV. However, Nkemdilim would take a 1 or 2 die internal penalty for not speaking the language very well. Nkemdilim's accusation wasn't particularly strong, so that would perhaps be a 1 die stunt (if he'd spoken the language well enough for me to more fully develop an accusation, I might have been able to parlay Lost Mountain's lack of action in the caves into a greater bonus, though if I had it would have been easy enough to point out that Lost Mountain didn't get much of a chance to display valor in the cave, since most of the dangerous situations were resolved before he had an opportunity to react). As for Lost Mountain's response, I'd say it would be a 1 die stunt if it were applied to his Dodge MDV, but would certainly be worth two dice if he decided to use his Parry MDV, since it took the form of a counterargument rather than a flat-out rejection of the initial attack.
Lost Mountain would have to fail a valor roll to refuse the challenge only if Nkemdilim had succeeded in the attack, and even if he failed to fail he could have spent a willpower point and added a point of Limit to turn away from the attack anyway. Given Lost Mountain's cool-headed reaction, I'd say that it's probably most reasonable to say that Nkemdilim failed in the attack. He just didn't present a credible challenge to Lost Mountain's valor, so Lost Mountain didn't feel like his valor was ever in question. Thus, no need to fail a valor roll.
Now, the following attack on Lost Mountain's ability to trust himself, which goes against Conviction...Lost Mountain's reaction indicates that Nkemdilim just might have touched a nerve on that one. But that's really more up to Brickwall.
