Nation Building Nation-States: Empires of Valinor

[NeoLeaf]

Slonia is the only nation from somewhere else. Everyone else here has been here for centuries, millennia even.
this is like Europe, not Australia. We are not former colonies.

I call BS on that.

 

[NeoLeaf]

We are too different.

 

[Spacekitty]

I call BS on that.

quote shireling: "this game is like my version of Europe" (paraphrase)


there is NO evidence to the contrary


Slonia is stated to be the ONLY nation from the Far Lands

 

[General Deth Glitch]

Oh yeah, because everyone in europe is a carbon copy. Neo. I bet your american.

 

[Spacekitty]

We are too different.

why is Europe so different then???


This land is bigger than Europe and therefore we can all be so diverse

 

[NeoLeaf]

[QUOTE="General Deth Glitch]Oh yeah, because everyone in europe is a carbon copy. Neo. I bet your american.

[/QUOTE]
You explain it then.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

Russians are infinately different from Italians who are wildly different from English, hell even within The British Isles there is massive diversity of cultures and beleifs.


Europe stretches from Spain to Russia, from Turkey to Britain. When it comes to the politics of europe the whole Mediterainian is generally included adding the middle east and north africa to the diverse mix. You said I am like ottomen, but my the 'distant origin' of Slonia they are much more resemblent of the Ottomen, moving into Europe from the middle east and finnally ending the Roman Empire.

 

[NeoLeaf]

Yeah that's the thing Glitch... We are isolated.


We are not connected to any great continents to do such a cultural exchange.


The most plausible theory is that we were colonies from foreign lands. Otherwise we'd be lacking develpement like the natives of the Americas

 

[Spacekitty]

Yeah that's the thing Glitch... We are isolated.
We are not connected to any great continents to do such a cultural exchange.


The most plausible theory is that we were colonies from foreign lands. Otherwise we'd be lacking develpement like the natives of the Americas

No...


If this continent has nations where the average sized nation is the size of France we have a VERY massive continent and therefore it is so large different cultures can easily emerge and different races due to the differences in climates from place to place.


And the emergence of tech is purely due to competition amongst ourselves, we want to have better tech than each other.

 

[NeoLeaf]

*sighs* ...


1. Isolation... The difference here in our world is that Eurasia and Africa are connected. As time went on, exchange and war happened between civs such as Egypt, the indies river and Mesopotamia spread civilizations to the other regions of the old world - fro Egypt to Asia-minor and then onto Europe.


The reason why Europe and Asia gradually evolved civilizations is because of the interactions of past ones. Every society on Eurasia had to innovate because of the lack of natural borders on the continents - This story was different in the Americas because their lands HAD natural borders and was isolated.


Rarely technology would spring by themselves. Improvements always came by interactions rather than from being passed down for generations.


2. The Lack of Livestock. The isolated natives from Australia, Americas etc. didn't have jack but horses and lamas. Eurasia and Africa had stuff like chicken, goats, cows etc. you get the idea. These animals were essential in agriculture and feeding large cities. The variety of fauna lacked in the isolated continents in contrast to Eurasia and Africa thus dooming their local populations when the colonists of more developed nations came.


Geography definitely destined a society here in this verse.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

*sighs* ...
1. Isolation... The difference here in our world is that Eurasia and Africa are connected. As time went on, exchange and war happened between civs such as Egypt, the indies river and Mesopotamia spread civilizations to the other regions of the old world - fro Egypt to Asia-minor and then onto Europe.


The reason why Europe and Asia gradually evolved civilizations is because of the interactions of past ones. Every society on Eurasia had to innovate because of the lack of natural borders on the continents - This story was different in the Americas because their lands HAD natural borders and was isolated.


Rarely technology would spring by themselves. Improvements always came by interactions rather than from being passed down for generations.


2. The Lack of Livestock. The isolated natives from Australia, Americas etc. didn't have jack but horses and lamas. Eurasia and Africa had stuff like chicken, goats, cows etc. you get the idea. These animals were essential in agriculture and feeding large cities. The variety of fauna lacked in the isolated continents in contrast to Eurasia and Africa thus dooming their local populations when the colonists of more developed nations came.


Geography definitely destined a society here in this verse.

Europe; France, Britain, Scandinavia and Germany, massively varied cultures and yet 90% Germanic heretige. The only two links between Europe and Asia that actually had anything travel across for centuries were the silk trade and the mongols. Very little trade happened between the north and south parts of the Mediterranean because of religious differences.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

And the Mongols weren't really interested in trading technology.

 

[NecroKnight]

Well then, one may ask where is this Far Lands - that is spoken that the Sloanians are from...

 

[NeoLeaf]

I'd have no idea Necro :T


But my theory that we all came elsewhere makes for me more sense than us originating on an isolated slab of European sized land.


We also have Bob's argument that I am accepting to a certain degree.


If this continent has nations where the average sized nation is the size of France we have a VERY massive continent and therefore it is so large different cultures can easily emerge and different races due to the differences in climates from place to place.


And the emergence of tech is purely due to competition amongst ourselves, we want to have better tech than each other.





Things I don't agree on Bob's statement are the size of the said landmass, the thing about having dramatically climate zones or biomes when our continent is probably temperate for the most part and the origin of our ethnic groups. If we were to have all the same lineage it begs the question where these human's came from and how they ended there in the first place.


Not so sure about the whole Germanic heritage thing that Glitch had mentioned. That stuff only occur because of the great migration which, in turn could only happen from outside interactions/invasions from groups such as Huns, Mongols, Vikings, Slavs and among other people the Turks and Arabs.


But let me not get ahead of myself in world history. I'm only arguing about what seems plausible for the origin of our empires and the setting.


@Shireling spread some fairy dust here.

 

[Spacekitty]

I'd have no idea Necro :T
But my theory that we all came elsewhere makes for me more sense than us originating on an isolated slab of European sized land.


We also have Bob's argument that I am accepting to a certain degree.


If this continent has nations where the average sized nation is the size of France we have a VERY massive continent and therefore it is so large different cultures can easily emerge and different races due to the differences in climates from place to place.


And the emergence of tech is purely due to competition amongst ourselves, we want to have better tech than each other.





Things I don't agree on Bob's statement are the size of the said landmass, the thing about having dramatically climate zones or biomes when our continent is probably temperate for the most part and the origin of our ethnic groups. If we were to have all the same lineage it begs the question where these human's came from and how they ended there in the first place.


Not so sure about the whole Germanic heritage thing that Glitch had mentioned. That stuff only occur because of the great migration which, in turn could only happen from outside interactions/invasions from groups such as Huns, Mongols, Vikings, Slavs and among other people the Turks and Arabs.


But let me not get ahead of myself in world history. I'm only arguing about what seems plausible for the origin of our empires and the setting.


@Shireling spread some fairy dust here.

neo I'm going to destroy part of your arguement


by time the west and east started interacting, the Mongol hordes, trade, etc, the ethnic groups had already formed. They formed way before all those interactions could occur. Differences one thnic groups occurred becuase of how spread out the tribes of early humans became, differences in climate, and random mutations. Along with some outside breeding course hut only with other Europeans.


maybe we did come from the Far Lands- 10000 years ago during the last ice age via land bridge

 

[General Deth Glitch]

neo I'm going to destroy part of your arguement
by time the west and east started interacting, the Mongol hordes, trade, etc, the ethnic groups had already formed. They formed way before all those interactions could occur. Differences one thnic groups occurred becuase of how spread out the tribes of early humans became, differences in climate, and random mutations. Along with some outside breeding course hut only with other Europeans.


maybe we did come from the Far Lands- 10000 years ago during the last ice age via land bridge

Aye, way back back when we probably were from the Far lands or, possibly, the other way around.

 

[NecroKnight]

Hmm....would be fun to simply 'fuck it all' and return to the Far Lands...

 

[NeoLeaf]

I've updated my Character Sheet with a new tab called 'Donbresch' and updated my 'borders' tab.


Feel free to look around.

 

[Spacekitty]

Hmm....would be fun to simply 'fuck it all' and return to the Far Lands...

just a note:


You haven't even begun an invasion yet

 

[NecroKnight]

I posted my movement to that. Just waiting on talking to you about environment and other minor stuff about the country were going to fight over.


@Bobisdead123

 

[Spacekitty]

I posted my movement to that. Just waiting on talking to you about environment and other minor stuff about the country were going to fight over.
@Bobisdead123

I'm not saying were gunna fight, you can attack me if you want.


And the Terraisn up to Shireling, unless you want to go with just open fields and winding hills.

 

[NecroKnight]

@Bobisdead123


I think, I'll wait for Shireling - since either of us, could make the environment or the land we fight over unfair.


Also, you from the States, bob?

 

[Spacekitty]

@Bobisdead123
I think, I'll wait for Shireling - since either of us, could make the environment or the land we fight over unfair.


Also, you from the States, bob?

Yes


And your gunna need to post a declaration/invasion in IC2 so its "official"

 

[Spacekitty]

That way i have something to respond to

 

[NecroKnight]

Alright, I'll post the me, invading part - but any terrain I'll leave to Shireling.


And I just read about the States - namely their public school and teachers union. And I don't know, whether to laugh or simply sigh and facepalm at the idiocy.