Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[TheAncientCelt]

This is king bradon barton, he is a sad guy becase his daddie died by the evil king maegon.

Simple to use, though mastery like any weapon would likely take time as one would expect I think

Yup. It's just odd that. . Cayden would use a peasants tool when you have the elegant sword at your finger tips.

The gladius is a very short blade that is meant for thrusting. When used by the Roman Legion the soldiers would thrust at the man facing off with their ally on their right so that they could essentially blindside their enemy while they're friend on their left did the same for them while they protected themselves with their huge shields. Also there have been tons of examples of Legions being caught out of formation by "Barbarians" and they were slaughtered because their swords were very limited in its use outside of formation. Also the only reason the gladius has ended so many lives is because the Romans were expansionist dicks and killed millions of people doing their dickish things.
Not saying the Roman Legions weren't the best ancient army by far in their prime, just saying in single combat, especially without a shield, a gladius is worthless compared to something like a longsword.

Sure there are reports of that - just as there are reports of Roman Centurions (looking at you Pullo and Vorenus) leaping out against charging Gauls and dealing devastating blows, in single combat against vast numbers of men, in the name of vitus. And there are reports of legionaries who are taken off guard in Gaul, collecting wood and timber for Caesar, who had never fought together before, came as one unit once the Gauls were upon them. The gladius isn't limited outside of its formation, no more than a spear is useless outside of the Greek phalanx. But when you take a soldier trained and drilled ruthlessly for years to fight a certain way that favors formations and team work, it'll be hard for that individual to throw that away and fight in a style that favors the individual.


Obviously the Gladius is primarily a puncturing weapon, but it's very capable of being used as a chopping tool (some variants even favoring that) and it was encouraged in the later Imperial era before the Spatha replaced the Gladius. And the Scutum is used always with the gladius, or as much as possible. it's the reason why Romans didn't wear much armor, why would you when you have a big shield? Even in a 1v1, a Scutum+Gladius is a great combination against enemies.


Strongly disagree. The Longsword wouldn't be as ideal as a quicker weapon like the gladius once you're close to your opponent. And if you want longer swords, the Spatha is perfectly fine. Ultimately they were made for different opponents and challenges, but the gladius was the tool for the Romans for at least five hundred years. If it was impractical once formations broke or routes started, it would of seen rapid change. Romans were pragmatic like that.

 

[Akio]

Oh yeah, Samurai were very determined people with insane discipline (well, not all of them, but the ideal samurai) and they were more than warriors and were usually very well educated because they were essentially the nobles of Japan at that time. A lot of them were writers, artists, craftsmen, shit they even specifically learned methods on how to make tea.
GG Rhaegar

And while I like the Katana the samurai armory had many awesome and cool weapons, I like the samurai as for who they are rather then just how their weapons would work against people then never met until basically the gunpowder age.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

[QUOTE="Ser Davos Seaworth]

Just saw this on Reddit, apparently it was some kids final art project for high school.

[/QUOTE]
That's pretty cool. This one is a favorite fan art of mine.

 

[Ser Davos Seaworth]

Katanas are cool and all, but they're useless against anybody whos not using stuff like lamellar, and even then its not very good at getting through that. Katanas just aren't good weapons at killing people who are actually prepared to fight back and have the money to afford the equipment they really need. Thats why ashigaru (peasant warriors, pretty much levies) who only really wore cloth or leathers were cut down like children by the samurai. Put a knight against a samurai and the knight will destroy the samurai every time due to armor and weaponry alone.

Well to be honest a Katana is an insanely good weapon that can cut people in half if it's in the right hands. Sure it wasn't amazing against heavily armored opponents but they really didn't need it to be since no one in feudal Japan was wearing full plate armor. I mean you can't say they were bad when the only thing that finally killed off the samurai was modern weaponry

 

[Akio]

Yup. It's just odd that. . Cayden would use a peasants tool when you have the elegant sword at your finger tips.

It's not that Cayden completely lacks skill with a sword, even Oberyn was considered a skilled sword user according to the wiki but he preferred the spear and I have little doubt Caydens used one before.


He originally took up the spear to honor his house, granted this is before he ever set foot on a battlefield growing up in dorne where armor is fairly uncommon. It's only when he went to war in Essos he became more aware of its limitations but even then full plate was rare. It's only since he stepped onto Essos that he became aware his weapon not only has limitation, but may not be viable on the field

 

[Leusis]

This is king bradon barton, he is a sad guy becase his daddie died by the evil king maegon.

Yup. It's just odd that. . Cayden would use a peasants tool when you have the elegant sword at your finger tips.


Sure there are reports of that - just as there are reports of Roman Centurions (looking at you Pullo and Vorenus) leaping out against charging Gauls and dealing devastating blows, in single combat against vast numbers of men, in the name of vitus. And there are reports of legionaries who are taken off guard in Gaul, collecting wood and timber for Caesar, who had never fought together before, came as one unit once the Gauls were upon them. The gladius isn't limited outside of its formation, no more than a spear is useless outside of the Greek phalanx. But when you take a soldier trained and drilled ruthlessly for years to fight a certain way that favors formations and team work, it'll be hard for that individual to throw that away and fight in a style that favors the individual.


Obviously the Gladius is primarily a puncturing weapon, but it's very capable of being used as a chopping tool (some variants even favoring that) and it was encouraged in the later Imperial era before the Spatha replaced the Gladius. And the Scutum is used always with the gladius, or as much as possible. it's the reason why Romans didn't wear much armor, why would you when you have a big shield? Even in a 1v1, a Scutum+Gladius is a great combination against enemies.


Strongly disagree. The Longsword wouldn't be as ideal as a quicker weapon like the gladius once you're close to your opponent. And if you want longer swords, the Spatha is perfectly fine. Ultimately they were made for different opponents and challenges, but the gladius was the tool for the Romans for at least five hundred years. If it was impractical once formations broke or routes started, it would of seen rapid change. Romans were pragmatic like that.

You can't pull the badass card when talking about how effective a weapon is (Centurions being the badass) because people like that if you let them train long enough could beat somebody whos using a sword with a pencil if the person they're fighting isn't skilled enough to kill them. Its just not fair for the sake of the argument.


Also, if we're talking about how effective a weapon is, by itself (which is the argument im making) the gladius isn't good at all because the scutum was what made the weapon as effective as it was. Essentially a gladius is a particularly long dagger thats better for thrusting and it doesn't have a guard so the hands are at a huge risk so its not effective for parrying blows. My argument isn't that the scutum with a gladius isn't effective, because it is (more so in formations by a lot) my argument is that a gladius by itself isn't a good weapon at all.

 

[Leusis]

[QUOTE="Ser Davos Seaworth]Well to be honest a Katana is an insanely good weapon that can cut people in half if it's in the right hands. Sure it wasn't amazing against heavily armored opponents but they really didn't need it to be since no one in feudal Japan was wearing full plate armor. I mean you can't say they were bad when the only thing that finally killed off the samurai was modern weaponry

[/QUOTE]
Katanas weren't even effective against lamellar (the armor samurai used) it was only effective against very lightly or unarmored opponents. I'm not saying you have to be wearing platemail to be uneffected by a katana either, I'm saying you could wear a chain shirt and still be unscathed in terms of cuts. Blunt damage of course is a thing and its a hunk of metal so the impact is going to hurt, but the katana was meant to cut down ashigaru and nothing else, it wasn't even meant to cut through the armor that samurai wore, they'd have to completely avoid the armor and go for exposed body parts to kill other samurai with their katanas. Samurai also wore 2 or more katana into battle because they were known to break, so all in all I think they're very effective against flesh, but useless against even lighter armors.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

It's not that Cayden completely lacks skill with a sword, even Oberyn was considered a skilled sword user according to the wiki but he preferred the spear and I have little doubt Caydens used one before.
He originally took up the spear to honor his house, granted this is before he ever set foot on a battlefield growing up in dorne where armor is fairly uncommon. It's only when he went to war in Essos he became more aware of its limitations but even then full plate was rare. It's only since he stepped onto Essos that he became aware his weapon not only has limitation, but may not be viable on the field

He needs to man up and get a sword.

You can't pull the badass card when talking about how effective a weapon is (Centurions being the badass) because people like that if you let them train long enough could beat somebody whos using a sword with a pencil if the person they're fighting isn't skilled enough to kill them. Its just not fair for the sake of the argument.
Also, if we're talking about how effective a weapon is, by itself (which is the argument im making) the gladius isn't good at all because the scutum was what made the weapon as effective as it was. Essentially a gladius is a particularly long dagger thats better for thrusting and it doesn't have a guard so the hands are at a huge risk so its not effective for parrying blows. My argument isn't that the scutum with a gladius isn't effective, because it is (more so in formations by a lot) my argument is that a gladius by itself isn't a good weapon at all.

Again, strongly disagree. Long dagger? It's well over dagger length, being close to what, two-three feet in length.


I was using an example of Romans (Centurions) using the swords independently of formation. Which did happen frequently on the batte field, we're led to believe now'a'days, as they were commended for such acts. I also wouldn't. . . Play by those rules you've set. If we're just letting two naked (or clothed, but minimally so that it won't give added protection) individuals together. A spearmen is going to demolish someone with a longsword. There's more to it then just the weapon that makes things effective and the weapon prized. A system of martial arts and discipline goes into them.


@TheBold That's just something I can't find myself agreeing with. Short swords (though I'd just call them swords myself) were the staple of Greco-Mediterranean life for a thousand+ years and were used in a varying degree. To say they aren't good, or that they should just of been made longer to make them more effective is silly. The gladius, by itself, is a tested and reliable tool that's capable of killing a person quite easily.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

Well no sword is going to be cutting through armor. Swords are meant to go around armor.

 

[Leusis]

He needs to man up and get a sword.
Again, strongly disagree. Long dagger? It's well over dagger length, being close to what, two-three feet in length.


I was using an example of Romans (Centurions) using the swords independently of formation. Which did happen frequently on the batte field, we're led to believe now'a'days, as they were commended for such acts. I also wouldn't. . . Play by those rules you've set. If we're just letting two naked (or clothed, but minimally so that it won't give added protection) individuals together. A spearmen is going to demolish someone with a longsword. There's more to it then just the weapon that makes things effective and the weapon prized. A system of martial arts and discipline goes into them.


@TheBold That's just something I can't find myself agreeing with. Short swords (though I'd just call them swords myself) were the staple of Greco-Mediterranean life for a thousand+ years and were used in a varying degree. To say they aren't good, or that they should just of been made longer to make them more effective is silly. The gladius, by itself, is a tested and reliable tool that's capable of killing a person quite easily.

The blade of a Gladius was barely over two feet long while the blade of a longsword was around 3'6. Thats a foot and a half of reach on the gladius, which is a huge advantage in a sword fight. Also, talking about the martial arts that go into using them is ridiculous because I'm not talking about fighting styles. I'm talking about versatility in the weapon itself, how effective the weapon alone is in the hands of an untrained man/womans hands. The simple proportions of the longsword make it a better weapon for single combat, let alone the fact a gladius doesn't even have a guard. The gladius is an inferior weapon when not paired with the scutum plain and simple, I really don't know why you keep bringing up the scutum and skill of the combatants when we're just talking about the weapons themselves and nothing else with two completely untrained men wielding them.

 

[Akio]

He needs to man up and get a sword.

He may very well if he lives long enough. But it will be some time before his skill with a sword makes it more viable weapon on the battlefield. Right now he probably only knows basic forms and while because of his physical ability and combat experience he could cut down a few Levy's but he's not used to getting past armor, at least with a sword. He could start learning again but finding an appropriate teacher who will be able to keep up with his constant traveling and bring up his sword skill to match his spear skill AND not be on opposite sides of the war will not only take time (perhaps not as long as someone starting from scratch because he's already an experinced warrior in his own right) but represents a massive inconvenience where finding a teacher and being able to keep them around will take a bit of luck

 

[TheAncientCelt]

The blade of a Gladius was barely over two feet long while the blade of a longsword was around 3'6. Thats a foot and a half of reach on the gladius, which is a huge advantage in a sword fight. Also, talking about the martial arts that go into using them is ridiculous because I'm not talking about fighting styles. I'm talking about versatility in the weapon itself, how effective the weapon alone is in the hands of an untrained man/womans hands. The simple proportions of the longsword make it a better weapon for single combat, let alone the fact a gladius doesn't even have a guard. The gladius is an inferior weapon when not paired with the scutum plain and simple, I really don't know why you keep bringing up the scutum and skill of the combatants when we're just talking about the weapons themselves and nothing else with two completely untrained men wielding them.

The guard doesn't matter all too much. You're not half swording a Gladius for a plethora of reasons, and blades typically don't slide down once they collide. They bite into each other.


I bring them up (I believe you mentioned the scutum in this post more than I did in my last) because otherwise it's hardly an artificial comparison. These weapons weren't made to be used by themselves, alone, and arguing that giving two untrained men them would prove which is superior is downright laughable. These are weapons that went hand in hand with other aspects of combat, stripping it all away to the bare minimum and stating that one "by itself isn't a good weapon at all" is bare boning it.


It's ignoring purpose and usage of the weapon. It's also typically a bit frowned on to just. . State a weapon is outright inferior to another. Maybe the materials that make it up, sure. That's fine. But they were designed for certain purposes and didn't have a whole lot of crossover room. Very rarely is there a definitively "better" weapon or sword. They each had their own niches to fill.


And again, using this logic of yours, a bronze-age spear is the better weapon over a steel longsword.

 

[Akio]

Caydens best chance to become as skilled with the sword as he is the spear would be joining with the Lannisters and convincing etheir Roland or Martyn to train him. However that would mean they would have to be deployed on the same battlefields and he'd have to convince them in a middle of a war to put up training with him and unlike Jaime he can't just order them to spar with hin. It would take certain plot choices and a lot of luck and time for it to be viable for Cayden to stop using the spear unless he starts fighting far more dirty

 

[Mion]

Caydens best chance to become as skilled with the sword as he is the spear would be joining with the Lannisters and convincing etheir Roland or Martyn to train him. However that would mean they would have to be deployed on the same battlefields and he'd have to convince them in a middle of a war to put up training with him and unlike Jaime he can't just order them to spar with hin. It would take certain plot choices and a lot of luck and time for it to be viable for Cayden to stop using the spear unless he starts fighting far more dirty

Daeron is not even close to being as good as a spear than Cayden but he is relatively decent with it, although do note he tries his best not to use it and only spars on occasion.


He is better when it comes to hand to hand and non-lethal forms of combat, those are his go-to if anything surpasses words.

 

[Leusis]

The guard doesn't matter all too much. You're not half swording a Gladius for a plethora of reasons, and blades typically don't slide down once they collide. They bite into each other.
I bring them up (I believe you mentioned the scutum in this post more than I did in my last) because otherwise it's hardly an artificial comparison. These weapons weren't made to be used by themselves, alone, and arguing that giving two untrained men them would prove which is superior is downright laughable. These are weapons that went hand in hand with other aspects of combat, stripping it all away to the bare minimum and stating that one "by itself isn't a good weapon at all" is bare boning it.


It's ignoring purpose and usage of the weapon. It's also typically a bit frowned on to just. . State a weapon is outright inferior to another. Maybe the materials that make it up, sure. That's fine. But they were designed for certain purposes and didn't have a whole lot of crossover room. Very rarely is there a definitively "better" weapon or sword. They each had their own niches to fill.


And again, using this logic of yours, a bronze-age spear is the better weapon over a steel longsword.

The guard matters quite a bit actually as often people would just aim for the fingers, wrist or forearm, attempting to completely ignore the blade of their opponent due to them not have a guard to defend properly against such a tactic, after all, this is why the guard was created in the first place and a gladius didn't have one because the person pretty much always had a huge shield in their other hand.


Also, putting two untrained opponents against each other using different weapons was the best solution I could find to compare both weapons in combat with each other unless I tried to go the route of two highly trained combatants. But that would work far less because then we have the problem of you saying "Gladius user will just move in closer and make the longsword less effective" while I could say "The longsword user doesn't allow that and keeps his distance and reach advantage over the gladius user" then we're just stuck in a tug of war that neither can win.


Also, if I came off as saying the gladius is inferior in every aspect thats not what I meant at all, I'm just saying the longsword is useful in more situations than the gladius is simply because the gladius is shorter, not as good for slicing, and much lighter so its far worse against armor. But the gladius is better in very close combat and it is lighter so its likely the quicker blade. I am just saying that I believe the longsword is more useful in more situations than the gladius is. And saying I can't seperate the gladius from the scutum is like saying I can't not have syrup on my pancakes. Sure, my pancakes are much better with the syrup, but that doesn't mean pancakes exclusively have to have syrup on them in every situation. We are comparing swords here, not swords paired with other equipment.

 

[Akio]

Daeron is not even close to being as good as a spear than Cayden but he is relatively decent with it, although do note he tries his best not to use it and only spars on occasion.
He is better when it comes to hand to hand and non-lethal forms of combat, those are his go-to if anything surpasses words.

Now I'm just imaging Daeron using jujitsu


Still kind of looking forward to the peaceful Daerons reaction to Caydens confession

 

[Mion]

Now I'm just imaging Daeron using jujitsu
Still kind of looking forward to the peaceful Daerons reaction to Caydens confession

Will try and work on it ASAP but I in process of rebooting my sleep schedule.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

Also, putting two untrained opponents against each other using different weapons was the best solution I could find to compare both weapons in combat with each other unless I tried to go the route of two highly trained combatants

Yes, let's have the people who have no idea how to use the weapons decide which is "superior". Would you give two people who never fired guns before two separate guns, same amount of ammo (or as much as their weapon can respectfully hold) and say the winner of the death battle is the one with the better weapon? Don't you see the problem here?

The guard matters quite a bit actually as often people would just aim for the finers, wrist or forearm, attempting to completely ignore the blade of their opponent due to them not have a guard to defend properly against such a tactic, after all, this is why the guard was created in the first place and a gladius didn't have one because the person pretty much always had a huge shield in their other hand.

Well apparently it's not a problem in this situation, as both would evidently be stripped of all armor. A guard doesn't matter when the wrist and arm are exposed, which would not be protected by the guard. The Gladius doesn't have a guard because of how quick the weapon is. The Scutum is a part of it, but you get in and out before your opponent has time to hit your hand. That's part of its function. And I'm not saying a guard is useless, but in this situation it is, and only in specific situations could I see two opponents aiming for fingers. In a battle, I don't see the French Knights being that precise where they swing. If they manage to hit your fingers, it's a bonus, and that's when you're thankful you have a guard.

Also, if I came off as saying the gladius is inferior in every aspect thats not what I meant at all, I'm just saying the longsword is useful in more situations than the gladius is simply because the gladius is shorter, not as good for slicing, and much lighter so its far worse against armor.

No matter what armor it is, you're not getting through your opponents armor with a sword. Maybe leather with enough force through a stab. But you're not slicing through one. The Gladius is just as capable of a slicing weapon, still capable of taking off hands with solid strokes.

 

[Leusis]

Yes, let's have the people who have no idea how to use the weapons decide which is "superior". Would you give two people who never fired guns before two separate guns, same amount of ammo (or as much as their weapon can respectfully hold) and say the winner of the death battle is the one with the better weapon? Don't you see the problem here?
Well apparently it's not a problem in this situation, as both would evidently be stripped of all armor. A guard doesn't matter when the wrist and arm are exposed, which would not be protected by the guard. The Gladius doesn't have a guard because of how quick the weapon is. The Scutum is a part of it, but you get in and out before your opponent has time to hit your hand. That's part of its function. And I'm not saying a guard is useless, but in this situation it is, and only in specific situations could I see two opponents aiming for fingers. In a battle, I don't see the French Knights being that precise where they swing. If they manage to hit your fingers, it's a bonus, and that's when you're thankful you have a guard.


No matter what armor it is, you're not getting through your opponents armor with a sword. Maybe leather with enough force through a stab. But you're not slicing through one. The Gladius is just as capable of a slicing weapon, still capable of taking off hands with solid strokes.

If you want to argue that giving two unskilled people seperate weapons to see which one holds the most advantage isn't accurate, you're right, and I agree with you. I'm just saying thats the only way I could think of a scenario in which we couldn't just argue back and forth on what two skilled opponents would do to fuck over the others strategy.


Also, a guard isn't armor, its a part of the sword, so I don't see why it wouldn't matter when neither opponent would be wearing armor, I'm just going to ignore you spoke of a guard like its armor. A scutum also isn't a part of a gladius, it is a seperate object, it is a shield, held in a different hand. I also never said they aimed for the finger specifically. I said they aimed for the fingers, wrist and forearm, as in their striking zone was from the fingers all the way to the elbow, not having a guard leaves those areas far more exposed when not wearing armor.


Also, when I say a sword is better against armor I don't mean slicing through it, I mean the sword is heavier and longer and thus carries more of an impact so the blunt force is much worse when getting hit by a longsword, you can also halfsword a longsword to increase that blunt trauma. Also, a gladius is not as capable at slicing, because you can't put as much force behind a gladius as a longsword.

 

[Leusis]

I just remembered you said you were hung over from day drinking, so I'm just going to stop out of respect from the headache you're probably having and say that the gladius is the more versatile weapon.

 

[Akio]

Will try and work on it ASAP but I in process of rebooting my sleep schedule.

Not saying you have to post now, just that I'm looking forward to his reaction realizing what Cayden was doing most of the time he was gone and his melancholy outlook


Also why resetting.

 

[Mion]

Not saying you have to post now, just that I'm looking forward to his reaction realizing what Cayden was doing most of the time he was gone and his melancholy outlook
Also why resetting.

Summer fucks sleep up, was going to sleep around 4 am everyday. Decided to skip night to reboot it and sleep at apropriate times so I dont play myself.

 

[Akio]

Summer fucks sleep up, was going to sleep around 4 am everyday. Decided to skip night to reboot it and sleep at apropriate times so I dont play myself.

*Goes to sleep at 2 am and never changed it even whole going to school at 6

 

[ACHA]

I'm going to have unreliable net connection guys. I'm on a volunteer mission in the rural areas.

 

[Ser Davos Seaworth]

Pokemon Go has made me want to play my old Pokemon games again. I just bought a GBA charger so I can play Fire Red