Tedronai
Member
All very true, but if you have no memories then how do you know you're god? I wouldn't expect a deity to put forward such a flawed, recursive argument...oh, wait...
Other What's your religion?
- Thread starter Zombocalypse
- Start date
Noivian
Drinker of coffees
That's why it's sort of my religion. I just have to have faith. I have this gut feeling, and have to have faith that I'm not wrong. In a sense, it's like putting faith in myself. I personally don't see anything wrong with believing in yourself.
Tedronai
Member
and that is my major obstacle with faith. To my mind it celebrates ignorance and resists if not outright punishes examination. I reserve the right to believe what I want but I choose to challenge it, to seek better explanations than those I have now. If you are content to rest on those laurels that's your choice but it doesn't seem a wise one.
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Zombocalypse
Quintessential Badboy
Noivian
Drinker of coffees
I do have more reasoning behind my beliefs, but they're a bit personal to me. I'd rather not openly discuss it, so faith will be the extent of my argument.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
that is absurd. Most people who don´t put their faith to examination, by my experience, don´t actually believe in the things they say they believe. Which can be held true not just among religious people, but pretty much everyone in general. We all hold beliefs we have no actual reason to believe in , and we all act in ways out of sheer habit. That doesn´t mean we "celebrate ignorance" it means we are not dumb enough to throw something out just because it is POSSIBLE to question it. Do note, I am not saying you or anyone is dumb for not believing in God, I am saying that people aren´t inherently ignorant or blind just because they believe.
And also, there is no better explanation. By the very definition of what a better explanation is, scientifically speaking, a supernatural explanation beats every other, as it requires less premises and explains a lot more.
Zombocalypse
Quintessential Badboy
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
A certain Frenchman called Descartes does. He gives you guarantee of the existence of everything around you and of the consistency of your own thoughts.
I don´t know if you´re trolling or you´re just delusional @Noivian, but I can tell you this: God, as per any logical guarantees of existing, would not come to Earth without power or memories.
Noivian
Drinker of coffees
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
funnily enough I JUST wrote a blog about this
Ticci Toby Rogers
Twitchy Little Pyromaniac
I'm a spiritual, scientologist, Christian, with a Jewish heritage.
Through my family ancestry, I celebrate some of the rituals of the Tora, or Old Testament, but through my faith, I believe in the trinity, of father, son, and holy spirit. I believe science, history, geography, and geology support the bible, and add new depths to it, filling in the mysteries we at one time relied on faith alone to solve. It makes me more secure in my beliefs. I also believe in the supernatural. Angel's, Demons, Ghosts, and the like. I believe in selective reincarnation, believing that God sends some souls back to earth, because he has a bigger plan for them. I've established these beliefs based on my experience in this world, as well as a number of supernatural experiences, and my little cousin, who's been blind sense birth, and describes, what we believe is a past life. She has given vivid descriptions of colourful tapestries, and fantastic people, that she could have never seen, or even known about. To top it off, one day she picked up my brother's guitar, and began to play effortlessly, despite never playing before.
Through my family ancestry, I celebrate some of the rituals of the Tora, or Old Testament, but through my faith, I believe in the trinity, of father, son, and holy spirit. I believe science, history, geography, and geology support the bible, and add new depths to it, filling in the mysteries we at one time relied on faith alone to solve. It makes me more secure in my beliefs. I also believe in the supernatural. Angel's, Demons, Ghosts, and the like. I believe in selective reincarnation, believing that God sends some souls back to earth, because he has a bigger plan for them. I've established these beliefs based on my experience in this world, as well as a number of supernatural experiences, and my little cousin, who's been blind sense birth, and describes, what we believe is a past life. She has given vivid descriptions of colourful tapestries, and fantastic people, that she could have never seen, or even known about. To top it off, one day she picked up my brother's guitar, and began to play effortlessly, despite never playing before.
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Zombocalypse
Quintessential Badboy
About your little cousin. I've heard about that before, kids recalling a past life. That's amazing.
Isn't it expensive to be a Scientologist?
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Ticci Toby Rogers
Twitchy Little Pyromaniac
Scientology is the belief in science, and science alone.
My beliefs are that Science backs up the Bible.
Not expensive at all! xD
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Tedronai
Member
Well I'm not a cat as far as I know or believe, but we've all got to die of something so if curiosity is what does me in I am ok with that.
Idea, you're entitled to call me dumb. I won't be offended, you'd be right.
I believe religion celebrates ignorance because ultimately if god exists he is unknowable and therefore there are no answers, only faith. It is only a belief but my belief is that everything is explainable with time and that's my path.
A supernatural answer might be simpler but that doesn't make it better. That's like writing an RP here than boils down to "a wizard did it".
While it takes fewer assumptions than science currently does the one assumption is a massive one that raises more questions that will never be answered because god is unknowable. Science, while flawed, works to fill those assumptions.
Idea, you're entitled to call me dumb. I won't be offended, you'd be right.
I believe religion celebrates ignorance because ultimately if god exists he is unknowable and therefore there are no answers, only faith. It is only a belief but my belief is that everything is explainable with time and that's my path.
A supernatural answer might be simpler but that doesn't make it better. That's like writing an RP here than boils down to "a wizard did it".
While it takes fewer assumptions than science currently does the one assumption is a massive one that raises more questions that will never be answered because god is unknowable. Science, while flawed, works to fill those assumptions.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Before I attempt to refute you- if it turns out that I really have a reason to- may I inquire as to what you mean by "unknowable?".
Also, I didn´t say being simpler makes a supernatural answer better. However there is something called Occam´s razor, a rule when choosing the best hypothesis, which states that if two hypothesis have equal or similar probabilities, one should choose the one with the least premises or the one which has a wider range of explanation. By both those criteria, a supernatural explanation is better.
I didn´t state this as a means of justifying my belief or anyone´s, only to explain the absurdity of claiming that just because an alternative doesn´t involve the supernatural it´s automatically better. Not only that, but the very idea that the supernatural and other explanations are incompatible has zero fundament by anyone who gives it a second´s thought.
The mistakes on both sides of the argument, are pretty similar, more than either side seems willing to admit or address. Until the end of times, we will never know for 100% sure, obviously, which is only the more reason to seek to discern these matters without minimalizing the other side of the argument. My objections to your words seek only that- to clarify that the way people think isn´t as simplistic as the way you seemed to be presuming.
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punkinblackk
Adulting is Hard
Everything in a blender with a heavy base of Christianity and a lot of greek/roman influence.
Grey
Dialectical Hermeticist
...Scientology is a specific cult based on the works of L. Ron Hubbard. What you are describing is, I believe, known as being a Christian Scientist.
Giyari
Magical_Girl.exe
I'm Agnostic. I don't believe there's an entity that's created, or controls us, but if its existence were proven, then fine, so be it.
For a more specific title, I follow Secular Humanism.
For a more specific title, I follow Secular Humanism.
Count Gensokyo
Super Smash Bros. Melee is a Fair & Balanced Game
I identify as a computer virus on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and i identify myself as an M1 Abrams Tank on all the other days of the week.
Wait, wrong thread.
Wait, wrong thread.
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Wixard
Thinkerer
Wow this is long and fascinating and I'm a Christian hi!
@Grey Tho I think you mean that there isn't enough evidence to convince you that 'God' or 'a God' exists, or that the evidence isn't sufficiently convincing. That's a personal choice that everyone has to make, using their best judgement and I respect that.
@Grey Tho I think you mean that there isn't enough evidence to convince you that 'God' or 'a God' exists, or that the evidence isn't sufficiently convincing. That's a personal choice that everyone has to make, using their best judgement and I respect that.
Grey
Dialectical Hermeticist
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Just to be clear, could you explain the difference?
Wixard
Thinkerer
Doubtless you've heard of the fine-tuning argument. In which case, the values of the universal constants are the evidence in question, and the argument itself is the interpretation of the evidence. You don't agree with the interpretation, maybe you think a different interpretation better explains the evidence, or that the interpretation is too far-fetched and a better one will come around eventually. While we disagree on where the evidence leads us, neither of us is going to say that the universal constants don't exist or aren't fine-tuned. That's just nonsense.
Zombocalypse
Quintessential Badboy
I'll give you evidence.
The historicity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Christian: 1, Atheist: 0
lol
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