Other What's your religion?

[Wixard]

I'll give you evidence.


The historicity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.


Christian: 1, Atheist: 0


lol

This isn't a competition. Be respectful.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Wow this is long and fascinating and I'm a Christian hi!


@Grey Tho I think you mean that there isn't enough evidence to convince you that 'God' or 'a God' exists, or that the evidence isn't sufficiently convincing. That's a personal choice that everyone has to make, using their best judgement and I respect that.

Another Christian! Woohooh!

 

[Wixard]

but you have apoint

 

[Zombocalypse]

This isn't a competition. Be respectful.

It was meant to be a joke. lol

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

Can we go back to describing our own beliefs and not trying to tear down others, please. I honestly want to hear about other people's beliefs.

 

[Dugym]

I didn't say atheism covered agnosticism or ignosticism (have never heard if the latter). Atheists don't believe, agnostics have beliefs but are undecided as to what they are since they usually don't fully mesh with any recognised religion.


There was a time where I would have classed myself agnostic since I wanted to believe there was a plan, a creator, cosmic punishment for evil but I came to realise wishing for those things don't make them real any more than wishing I could do magic or be Batman.


If you have a wish it should always be to be Batman.

You don't know what an agnostic is exactly, @Tedronai. Here are some definitions.

• A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
  
• A person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
  
• A person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic.
  

I'm gonna sound like an ass for saying this, but I'm going to say this anyways. 


I know for a fact there is no one above me. That's because I believe I am God. I'm Godkin. It's both a personal identification for me, and a representation of my own religious beliefs. 


Let me clarify: I'm not omnipotent or omniscient or all that. If you were to take God and all concepts related, and force it all into a mortal body so that it all fit within the physical limits of a human, then that would be me. Minus all possible memories, minus all possible powers. When I die, I will return to my rightful place. 


I don't believe this is a standard religion, so it's my own personal beliefs.

Is this a troll post, @Noivian?

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

I'm Christian.


And a gay guy.

I have an honest question that I'm genuinely curious about. How do you reconcile being both Christian and gay?


Do you believe the Bible can be interpreted loosely and can be adapted to changing mentalities? Or is the Bible open to human error because it was written by human scribes? If that's the case, how can we know which parts of the Bible are "true" and which are human error?

 

[Wixard]

I have an honest question that I'm genuinely curious about. How do you reconcile being both Christian and gay?


Do you believe the Bible can be interpreted loosely and can be adapted to changing mentalities? Or is the Bible open to human error because it was written by human scribes? If that's the case, how can we know which parts of the Bible are "true" and which are human error?

Ditto this.

 

[Forehead]

I have an honest question that I'm genuinely curious about. How do you reconcile being both Christian and gay?


Do you believe the Bible can be interpreted loosely and can be adapted to changing mentalities? Or is the Bible open to human error because it was written by human scribes? If that's the case, how can we know which parts of the Bible are "true" and which are human error?

I'm a proud Christian yes, I'm not homophobic but I prefer to stay away from being homosexual due to the fact that the bible says otherwise. It's written that everything in the bible is true and so that should be enough. The reason I'm a Christian is personal to me and I would rather not have it discussed, thank you!

 

[Grey]

Just to be clear, could you explain the difference?

As Wixard says; an argument is an interpretation of alleged evidence.  


I'm going to put this next part in a spoiler.  I'm not looking to insult anyone, and this-to the best of my understanding-is a thread for sharing rather than debating, so if anyone feels the need to address it either PM me or start a new thread for the topic (and we can place bets on how long it'll be before the staff are forced to lock it).  If you are uncomfortable with people challenging or dismissing your faith, I suggest you simply ignore this post and carry on.

Spoiler

The problem I have with most arguments for the existence of a higher power is that they are not based on evidence, but presuppose the existence of a higher power.  They routinely look like this:


1. God is real.


2. An observable phenomenon in the universe is currently not wholly understood.


3. God did it because [insert reason most convenient to faith in question here]


4. God is definitely real.


It's pure god-of-the-gaps desperation, the tragic amalgamation of all cognitive biases and memetic virology. 


To address Wixard's reference to fine tuning; if you do not already believe in a god, does fine tuning imply the existence of one?  And if it does, which god specifically?  How does one derive a god from universal constants, rather than using universal constants to justify belief in a god?  The evidence does not point to any deity, it is simply evidence that the universe has properties which we are currently capable of observing and we are, coincidentally, extant to observe them because they happen to facilitate our existence.  It doesn't mean anything, any more than a smoking caldera means the island god is angry or a flood means the supernal homophobe is having a tantrum about equality.


Only two arguments are remotely compelling and neither supports any extant religious structure.  


One is that the universe we know is a simulation, which implies that any creator or creators were capable of making a universe free of suffering and chose not to.  They would require a damn good reason for this if they want anything but hatred, and if they were to demand worship or gratitude they would by so doing prove themselves deserving of neither.


The other is based on the top-down theory and the implications of some recent experiments by CERN; if a god can exist then they have not existed yet, a theory which if sincerely adopted by any sizeable number of people would potentially have horrifying consequences.  I reckon I can spin a decent piece of fiction out of that one.


So my belief is, in a nutshell, that there is no evidence for the existence of any deity as understood by theism and that religiosity is the product of various neurological phenomena or the product of exploiting those same phenomena.

 

[Tedronai]

Before I attempt to refute you- if it turns out that I really have a reason to- may I inquire as to what you mean by "unknowable?".


Also, I didn´t say being simpler makes a supernatural answer better. However there is something called Occam´s razor, a rule when choosing the best hypothesis, which states that if two hypothesis have equal or similar probabilities, one should choose the one with the least premises or the one which has a wider range of explanation. By both those criteria, a supernatural explanation is better.

Ok, @Grey is right. This thread was meant to be about sharing belief's, not debating them. I'm happy to continue this elsewhere but I feel we're hijacking the thread. I will answer your questions but won't add anything more of my own.


By unknowable, I mean that it can never be known. If an entity such as god as any religion describes him/her/it exists it would be so different from humans that we would never be able to comprehend it's mind/will any more than an amoeba would ours.


I have heard of Occam's razor but I don't believe that's how it works. Not all premises are equal, diagnosing an illness might mean identifying a particular bacteria, a source of infection, the complication caused by a birth defect, and so on. It's much simpler to say it's a demon but that isn't getting you cured.

 

[Dugym]

Ok, @Grey is right. This thread was meant to be about sharing belief's, not debating them. I'm happy to continue this elsewhere but I feel we're hijacking the thread. I will answer your questions but won't add anything more of my own.


By unknowable, I mean that it can never be known. If an entity such as god as any religion describes him/her/it exists it would be so different from humans that we would never be able to comprehend it's mind/will any more than an amoeba would ours.


I have heard of Occam's razor but I don't believe that's how it works. Not all premises are equal, diagnosing an illness might mean identifying a particular bacteria, a source of infection, the complication caused by a birth defect, and so on. It's much simpler to say it's a demon but that isn't getting you cured.

@Tedronai, did you see this post?

You don't know what an agnostic is exactly, @Tedronai. Here are some definitions.

• A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
  
• A person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
  
• A person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic.
  

Also, I propose two thread rules.


1) You are allowed to debate, but not argue.


2) You can only debate in spoilers.

 

[Zombocalypse]

@Tedronai, did you see this post?


Also, I propose two thread rules.


1) You are allowed to debate, but not argue.


2) You can only debate in spoilers.

Hi. I'm the creator of this thread. Thanks for posting.


As far as the rules go, what's the difference between arguing and debating? Aren't they the same?


That being said, I allow full-on debates in this thread.

 

[Wixard]

Connotation. Arguing is generally verbal brawling, less organized, more volatile. Debating carries connotations of respect for opposing viewpoints, and presenting and challenging the merits of competing ideas in an intellectual manner.

 

[Dugym]

Connotation. Arguing is generally verbal brawling, less organized, more volatile. Debating carries connotations of respect for opposing viewpoints, and presenting and challenging the merits of competing ideas in an intellectual manner.

You took the words out of my mouth! If you walk away from a debate, you will still be friends with your contender. 

 

[Zombocalypse]

Alright. Honestly, everyone, I am very glad as to how this thread turned out. It became a hot topic overnight! And I'm glad at the relative lack of a flame war.


I think it's my turn to state my beliefs...


I believe that there is a God. And I believe that God's son is Jesus. I am not sure of the validity of the Holy Trinity, or whether Jesus and God are the same person. I still haven't figured that out yet. I do, however, accept the divinity of Jesus. He and the Father, or Him and Him, are above and beyond angels and demons.


I believe that when we die, we die. I don't believe in the existence of a soul separate from the body. I can back up this belief. Medieval theologians like Augustine and Aquinas based some of their theology on Plato and Socrates, whom were essentially in the era of ancient paganism. Plato and Socrates believed in an immortal soul, but the Bible says otherwise. The Bible states that death is essentially sleep. Sleep until the final resurrection.


I believe that, like karma in Hinduism and Buddhism, we get what we ask for. But not in the idea of committing bad deeds in past lives and experiencing punishment today. To me, it's simply God punishing us with our bad deeds. Our bad deeds, or sins, are the cause, and God's punishment is the effect. As simple as that.


I honestly, truly believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation. It came from Him Himself. I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.


And yes. I do believe that Christians and only Christians alone are saved. As far as people who never had the chance of knowing about Christ, I don't know. All I know is that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. With this, I also believe that those who reject Him are doomed in Hell.


And speaking of Hell, I believe in the literal description of it being a lake of fire and torment. I fear going to hell, and this fear of mine helps me be a good person.


I believe that any other religion other than that of Jesus Christ's is a false religion belonging from Satan. Satan is the god of lies, and he had fed humanity lies for thousands of years.


I believe in miracles.


And lastly, I believe in the literal story of Genesis. Earth is only 6000 years old and it was created in a 6 day period. I believe evolution is a lie that can never be proven to be true. Up to now, we still haven't found the missing link that would prove evolution.


That's it, I believe...

 

[AkuTheWolfOkami]

This is an interesting thread.


Guess I'll share my opinion and beliefs. I am an Omnist. That made up word is the only thing that fits my OCD for logic. Yes, it is OCD because if something doesn't follow logic it will disturb my entire well being, and i cannot function.


I don't believe in God as this omnipotent, omnipresent being as much as I believe there is some beginning to creation. We as humans live in a universe with predisposed rules, that are sometimes challenged by existence itself. If I scale this down a bit, life ruled by science (that is life is completely observable and and explainable) could be comparable to a video game. The video game has a creator, and someone who can manipulate the code to their liking, a God. Then by my perspective, if a human can be a God, then it wouldn't be far-fetched that there is a God. 


My issue becomes with religion. There's too many religions to count, that all say relatively the same thing, with different rules. Then I realized, what if I personify God, and if we are made in his image as the Christians love to say, the lad has a persona. What if he is a curious type? And decided "Let me influence all of these religions and see if they can tolerate and love each other." There may be some truth to every religion, to every myth. Hell, God might even just take other forms for the fun of it. I don't know. 


Point is, logic dictates to me that there has to be some creator. Whether I believe in heaven or hell is all wish wosh to me at this point. We could all already be in hell lol. 


Also, the absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence. It bothers me when people say that they don't believe in God because they don't see any evidence. It also bothers me when one says existence is evidence. 


Actually not even sure what i said at this point. 


OH I was raised roman catholic (I'm haitian american AND southern) and only recently renounced the church. 

 

[Soul Stealer]

It's not a mystery if you read the Bible.

This thread is about open-mindedness and discovering other's opinions and new possibilities, not deciding why people don't like what you like and judging it with bias.


Like,


It wouldn't be a mystery why I'm a Napoleonist if you read the Black Pullet.


I would expect you to know that in the first place..

 

[Wixard]

It wouldn't be a mystery why I'm a Napoleonist if you read the Black Pullet.

What's that?

 

[Soul Stealer]

Just some book written in the 1800s by a officer in the army promising how to make talismans giving you powers

 

[Wixard]

Just some book written in the 1800s by a officer in the army promising how to make talismans giving you powers

No, the bold word not the book.

 

[AkuTheWolfOkami]

And lastly, I believe in the literal story of Genesis. Earth is only 6000 years old and it was created in a 6 day period. I believe evolution is a lie that can never be proven to be true. Up to now, we still haven't found the missing link that would prove evolution.

I know we're supposed to be nice. But this...what is this. Is this a troll?

 

[Wixard]

I know we're supposed to be nice. But this...what is this. Is this a troll?

There's evidence for young earth creationism.

 

[Necromantic]

Hello! I'm your average teary-eyed hatsune miku vegetable here with his/her religious beliefs. 


I could describe my religion as very, very complicated. In a normal conversation, I would use the term 'Agnostic', as it's a whooooole damn lot easier than trying to explain, and most people don't want a full explanation. But this thread was posted so that people could post their religious beliefs, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to tell you my story. 


Now, like any good religious story, I'm going to begin in my childhood; it was absolute hell, full of emotional abuse, that included, you guessed it, Christianity, with two major points standing out: both my father and my grandmother telling my I was going to hell because I said I was bi (when I was a 12 year old, though this Decleration hasn't changed), and me trying to come out as transgender (am I transmale or transfemale? Well, that was on my profile when I first joined, but it's not, now, so just guess. I'll put it back up when I feel like it)


Now, if not for the first one, I might  not have developed a temporary opposition to Christianity that lasted until about... Sophomore or Junior year of Highschool. Look at my age and you may think I'm still in Highschool but, trust me, I'm in college. I graduated at 17. Now, how did I grow out of this disdain, you may ask? I grew the fuck up, plain and simple. I realized I was being a biggot, and realized, with the help of my mom, that a majority of Christians are not my grandmother and my father (neither of which I have talked to for a year, if you're wondering). 


Where do I sit, now?


Well, as I said, I'm in college, so, of course, there's only about 500 ministries on campus. During a welcome thing for freshmen, I ended up telling one of the ministers about how my father reacted to me trying to come out, and, while he would never fully understand where I'm coming from, he tried his best to talk to me about it, and was never once rude about it. Somehow, he also ended up with my campus e-mail, so that we could talk if I ever needed to... Or something. 


Now, recently, I've taken up going to one of the campus ministries, because I felt this might just be better than the trauma of my childhood. I was right, too. I actually feel welcome, and not once have I been told I was going to Hell. Shit, one person even called me their "Brother/Sister in Christ".


did you really need all of that information for that not-so-thrilling conclusion of 'I might be Christian'? No. But I needed to talk about it, so I did. 

 

[Wixard]

@Lettuce, that's a pretty interesting life story. I'm sorry about your father and grandmother. I'll be happy to talk theology with you (or anyone else here who has questions about the Bible/Christianity) at any time.