Fantasy War of the Magi [OPEN] (Character Creation and OOC)

[PharaohAtem]

Kodoku is happy to train and grow, that's what the training room is for. Heck, before the infinite power source, they thought they were going to have to take considerable time bootstrapping up. With infinite power, that hurtle was quickly overcome. The fact that they assume the other students are hyper competent is because everyone had much greater powers than them at the start, and has generally made a show of how awesome they are. There isn't much hint that they are struggling or should struggle that they give off. As mentioned, there are niche cases like this thing being immune to the water and psionic abilities of the others, but most of them tend to have two groups of very broad magics. Those niche cases seem like they will be rare for most of them. If others showed more often that they had limits and struggled, then Kodoku would have reason to think that they needed help or were in danger. As long as everyone seems to be gods among men, there is no reason to assume that they can't handle any challenges they meet and that they are just toying with their prey.

These aren't people reacting with fear from what they can tell. These people sought out this thing and this fight. There was no caution. No fear. Few suggestions that this was anything other than entertainment for most of them. If they run into situation heedless of the dangers they have to assume that it's because they don't need to heed the dangers. They've survived this long, so they can't just be so stupid as to run into life threatening situations on the regular. Eventually, if they were actually in danger, in the hundreds or thousands of years these folks have existed, their luck would have run out in one of those situations and they wouldn't be here. While yes, they can just be that lucky, it wouldn't generally be the first thing that come to mind. It is far more likely that they're just that good to have survived all that time.

"hundreds or thousands of years these folks have existed"



Umm who the hell are you talking about here exactly Rose is 18 Asdreum 14 manta is a few hundred years sure but for his rave that's still a kid physically he is younger then Asdreum like how a 30 year old elf would probably still be in dipers not to mention he spent most of that time being protected and due to Cherry cures she's younger and weaker then most characters physically sure your right that it's immunity aren't that big of a threat to some of the characters Rose can just use different types of runes to see what works and Asdreum demon magic has a lot of possible counters but I'm just confused where your getting the notion that they are all Ancient deities?

 

[phibglib]

Those two don't have the raw power or age of some of the others, so I would have answer "no" to godlike in that respect, but they are widely defined. As noted, you all came through a portal. The entirety of one of my character's magics seems to be a subset of one of their magics. One can get very creative with how they use portals and can use them to great effect with even small amounts of power. That was why I was rather jealous when it happened. You had basically been brave enough to ask for things that included possibly the entirety of one of my magics, plus a whole bunch of other stuff that, as long as it sticks to theme, allows you near infinite options. That's fine. That was my error. The only "underutilization" would just be a matter of creativity in their use I guess. That's not a bad thing. As noted, they are learning and haven't had the centuries to learn how to get creative with them.

I guess that is something I should be clearer about. I tend to lump everyone together when I speak, and as noted, painting with a broad brush isn't effective. Some have shown some weaknesses. As noted, Cherry even shows fear, though mostly of her own curse which seems like something a teacher or classmate could fix rapidly if they cared to do so. Kodoku even offered a potential solution that was delayed if not turned down. Thought it is likely off the table thanks to another one of her classmates, so that's a bit of a wash. That being said, the teachers have made a big show of how awesome they are, so if they cared, they could likely do it and would need to be worried about what one of the students thought of their actions. That being said, most of them have tool boxes that let them deal with situations and haven't shown much in the way of caution.

As I noted, library nearly full of books that were likely safe to read. Plenty of ways to gather information before tripping anything dangerous, and many of them rushed to do the more dangerous things that library offered rather than explore those options. No hours of research and careful exploration, mostly people rushing forward to use the book of life, open the magical box, and summon the ink creature. Three separate very dangerous actions and paths forward that were taken with little regard to the safety of themselves or others. Admittedly, someone them might have had their hands forced by the others and might have taken the more careful approach if allowed. They seemed to think that they could handle whatever they were coming across. If they didn't think that, why did they do the thing?

Thank you for the input. Hopefully, the creativity is something I can improve on both in and out of universe.

 

[ShinyEve]

"hundreds or thousands of years these folks have existed"



Umm who the hell are you talking about here exactly Rose is 18 Asdreum 14 manta is a few hundred years sure but for his rave that's still a kid physically he is younger then Asdreum like how a 30 year old elf would probably still be in dipers not to mention he spent most of that time being protected and due to Cherry cures she's younger and weaker then most characters physically sure your right that it's immunity aren't that big of a threat to some of the characters Rose can just use different types of runes to see what works and Asdreum demon magic has a lot of possible counters but I'm just confused where your getting the notion that they are all Ancient deities?

This very true. My oldest student is Saber, who again has weakness and things to learn and most of his time has been spent in the world of the familiars. Green is 2000 but compared to usual dragon lifespans, he's still a child.

 

[CHUUYAS_HAT]

why is everyone typing essays in ooc

 

[ShinyEve]

"hundreds or thousands of years these folks have existed"



Umm who the hell are you talking about here exactly Rose is 18 Asdreum 14 manta is a few hundred years sure but for his rave that's still a kid physically he is younger then Asdreum like how a 30 year old elf would probably still be in dipers not to mention he spent most of that time being protected and due to Cherry cures she's younger and weaker then most characters physically sure your right that it's immunity aren't that big of a threat to some of the characters Rose can just use different types of runes to see what works and Asdreum demon magic has a lot of possible counters but I'm just confused where your getting the notion that they are all Ancient deities?

Also, another point to this is that Manta still can't physically speak because he is still very young for his species which is why he uses telepathy to communicate. It has been mentioned he can only make inaudible sounds.

 

[phibglib]

why is everyone typing essays in ooc

Guess some people have a lot to say

 

[ShinyEve]

why is everyone typing essays in ooc

Honestly I don't know. Either way. How are you Chuu?

 

[CHUUYAS_HAT]

Honestly I don't know. Either way. How are you Chuu?

I just ate :<

 

[ShinyEve]

I just ate :<

Cool. I hope this doesn't put you off at all.

 

[CHUUYAS_HAT]

Cool. I hope this doesn't put you off at all.

nope, didn't at all, but sleep is a few stars away ;>

 

[ShinyEve]

nope, didn't at all, but sleep is a few stars away ;>

Glad to hear it. I don't know if you agree or not, but like I said. I wanted to bring it up before it became a bigger issue.

 

[PharaohAtem]

Thank you for the input. Hopefully, the creativity is something I can improve on both in and out of universe.

In regards to your characters their potential and their current use of their powers they have a lot of potential if their powers are used creativity for a few examples/ tips

Bardic Magic is able to do pretty much anything you can imagine when not bound by dnd rules and logic as one of its main subject is music magic that let's you do pretty much anything that can be put into a song or as long as it's accompanied by music that alone has limitless potential and can do things like create things out of nothing weaken enemies strengthen allies summon/ control minions brainwashing/ mind control and so much more and that's just one subset

Illusion magic is literally creation magic if you prefect it like Pozuzy has since the illusions become real and you can make any illusion you can think of the only issue is mana drain as making them real cost a lot

Abjuration magic is one of the most versatile but under used and uder appreciated magics possible because if the limits placed on it in dnd by its definition its literally protection magic and tge saying the best offence is a good defence applies here you could create reflective force fields to shoot any kind of magic back at the enemy barriers that strengthen allies and weaken enemies inside them barriers that seal of certain skills or abilities so effectively taking away your enemies best weapons you could set barriers around en enemy blocking the flow of oxygen and evening they can escape it would allow you or your allies to set up a more deadly attack and so on

Theurgy/Holy Magic is only restricted by the God your borrowing power from and it doesn't have to be only one it can be as many as you want/ gm allows and there is a God for literally everything so this is basically omi magic at its core can't remember what God/ gods your borrowing power from so I can't give much details advice here but remember each God typically has multiple domains and thse domains are very versatile so even if it's only one God you have a huge amount of options

Honestly the only things Phibglib that i agree with in this discussion are his assessment of your characters and that the guys in the library could handle the monster by themselves though it's not if they get seriously its if me and Shinny stop restricting them on the basis that they are students and still leaning honesty I could of ended the fight as soon as it started since its not even a named monster/ character all the bosses we are facing in the four events so far are the equivalent of roaming monster in a game we haven't even got to the mini bosses or the big bads yet but ending the fight that soon 1 would be boring and leave nothing for the others to do and 2 require me to bust out some of the more op abilities of my chosen power that my characters realistically shouldn't have access to atm since they are still in school and if they could already do those things they wouldn't need to be in school and would already be fighting in the war or teaching the students

 

[CHUUYAS_HAT]

In regards to your characters their potential and their current use of their powers they have a lot of potential if their powers are used creativity for a few examples/ tips

Bardic Magic is able to do pretty much anything you can imagine when not bound by dnd rules and logic as one of its main subject is music magic that let's you do pretty much anything that can be put into a song or as long as it's accompanied by music that alone has limitless potential and can do things like create things out of nothing weaken enemies strengthen allies summon/ control minions brainwashing/ mind control and so much more and that's just one subset

Illusion magic is literally creation magic if you prefect it like Pozuzy has since the illusions become real and you can make any illusion you can think of the only issue is mana drain as making them real cost a lot

Abjuration magic is one of the most versatile but under used and uder appreciated magics possible because if the limits placed on it in dnd by its definition its literally protection magic and tge saying the best offence is a good defence applies here you could create reflective force fields to shoot any kind of magic back at the enemy barriers that strengthen allies and weaken enemies inside them barriers that seal of certain skills or abilities so effectively taking away your enemies best weapons you could set barriers around en enemy blocking the flow of oxygen and evening they can escape it would allow you or your allies to set up a more deadly attack and so on

Theurgy/Holy Magic is only restricted by the God your borrowing power from and it doesn't have to be only one it can be as many as you want/ gm allows and there is a God for literally everything so this is basically omi magic at its core can't remember what God/ gods your borrowing power from so I can't give much details advice here but remember each God typically has multiple domains and thse domains are very versatile so even if it's only one God you have a huge amount of options

Honestly the only things Phibglib that i agree with in this discussion are his assessment of your characters and that the guys in the library could handle the monster by themselves though it's not if they get seriously its if me and Shinny stop restricting them on the basis that they are students and still leaning honesty I could of ended the fight as soon as it started since its not even a named monster/ character all the bosses we are facing in the four events so far are the equivalent of roaming monster in a game we haven't even got to the mini bosses or the big bads yet but ending the fight that soon 1 would be boring and leave nothing for the others to do and 2 require me to bust out some of the more op abilities of my chosen power that my characters realistically shouldn't have access to atm since they are still in school and if they could already do those things they wouldn't need to be in school and would already be fighting in the war or teaching the students

that is amazing for a dyslexic person
(no offense, it's a compliment)
like wtf, I can't do that much

 

[PharaohAtem]

Guess some people have a lot to say

Yeah I have been known to ramble on a bit lol especially when talking about powers and abilities and their applications/ versatility

 

[Quibbles]

"hundreds or thousands of years these folks have existed"



Umm who the hell are you talking about here exactly Rose is 18 Asdreum 14 manta is a few hundred years sure but for his rave that's still a kid physically he is younger then Asdreum like how a 30 year old elf would probably still be in dipers not to mention he spent most of that time being protected and due to Cherry cures she's younger and weaker then most characters physically sure your right that it's immunity aren't that big of a threat to some of the characters Rose can just use different types of runes to see what works and Asdreum demon magic has a lot of possible counters but I'm just confused where your getting the notion that they are all Ancient deities?

Agnes: 316
Ivory: 126
Sage: 204
Raven: 111
Obsethine: 260
Stag: 175
Cress: 215
Tsuki: 200
Keesha: 17
Draco: 360.000
Cherry: 13?(This one seems to imply that she's been getting younger, so I don't know actual time passed)
Crimson: 24000
Piper: 175
Othranus: 178
Moon: 2300
Green: 2000
Lady Red: 300
Pozuzy: 460
Grace: 25000
Saber: 125000
Sokolov: 180,000
Rena: 526,000
Ali: 20
Manta: 800
Neptune: 1200
Andalm: 15
Nei: 17
Cerralei: 15
Roasty: Unknown
Celet: 18
Rose: 18
Saiotiga: 17
Asdreum: 14 (but has a demon that one could assume is much older)
Nekelett: Unlisted age
Faith: 14
Cynthia: 20
Taiga: 20
Jane: 3500
Wisp: Unknown
Mimi: Unknown
Christopher: 76
Frank: 862

While I could go through and pull out mean, median, and mode from those (removing the unknown and undisclosed ones to avoid errors produced by having to assume a value there). I will say that there are more people that are under 100 than I seemed to be internalizing. In that respect I was in error.

That said, there are plenty of creatures that get close to, or break past, that 100 year mark. Some of them by several orders of magnitude. Even if you're still a "child" biologically, you have still had all that time to learn. Children might struggle because of brain chemistry or structure to "get" some things, but they're not wildly incapable of learning stuff, especially as it relates to "not dying" as that tends to be a survival trait for species. Even if you last hundreds of thousands of years, it would seem like there would be a limit to how long it is feasible to have them requiring the parents' protection, to the level that an infant does, before it just wasn't viable as a reproductive strategy. And once again, infants might not have the physical abilities to do a lot of things, but they're not incapable of learning things. Unless the species is just not up to the task, like dogs and flat worms, it would seem likely that the growing child would in those very long years of physical immaturity still be able to pick up purely intellectual pursuits such as language, science, maths, understanding the behavior of the world around them, etc.

 

[ShinyEve]

In regards to your characters their potential and their current use of their powers they have a lot of potential if their powers are used creativity for a few examples/ tips

Bardic Magic is able to do pretty much anything you can imagine when not bound by dnd rules and logic as one of its main subject is music magic that let's you do pretty much anything that can be put into a song or as long as it's accompanied by music that alone has limitless potential and can do things like create things out of nothing weaken enemies strengthen allies summon/ control minions brainwashing/ mind control and so much more and that's just one subset

Illusion magic is literally creation magic if you prefect it like Pozuzy has since the illusions become real and you can make any illusion you can think of the only issue is mana drain as making them real cost a lot

Abjuration magic is one of the most versatile but under used and uder appreciated magics possible because if the limits placed on it in dnd by its definition its literally protection magic and tge saying the best offence is a good defence applies here you could create reflective force fields to shoot any kind of magic back at the enemy barriers that strengthen allies and weaken enemies inside them barriers that seal of certain skills or abilities so effectively taking away your enemies best weapons you could set barriers around en enemy blocking the flow of oxygen and evening they can escape it would allow you or your allies to set up a more deadly attack and so on

Theurgy/Holy Magic is only restricted by the God your borrowing power from and it doesn't have to be only one it can be as many as you want/ gm allows and there is a God for literally everything so this is basically omi magic at its core can't remember what God/ gods your borrowing power from so I can't give much details advice here but remember each God typically has multiple domains and thse domains are very versatile so even if it's only one God you have a huge amount of options

Honestly the only things Phibglib that i agree with in this discussion are his assessment of your characters and that the guys in the library could handle the monster by themselves though it's not if they get seriously its if me and Shinny stop restricting them on the basis that they are students and still leaning honesty I could of ended the fight as soon as it started since its not even a named monster/ character all the bosses we are facing in the four events so far are the equivalent of roaming monster in a game we haven't even got to the mini bosses or the big bads yet but ending the fight that soon 1 would be boring and leave nothing for the others to do and 2 require me to bust out some of the more op abilities of my chosen power that my characters realistically shouldn't have access to atm since they are still in school and if they could already do those things they wouldn't need to be in school and would already be fighting in the war or teaching the students

Well, the monsters are bosses in a sense, but not the big bads lol

 

[PharaohAtem]

that is amazing for a dyslexic person
(no offense, it's a compliment)
like wtf, I can't do that much

Yeah it took awhile and auto correct worked its ass off lol but other then that I happen to know a lot about a lot of different powers and abilities so much so that I firmly believe there is no weak power or magic only and any abilitie is only limited by the imagination and creativity of the users seriously you tell me a power you think is weak and I'll tell you why it's op once the user masters it and takes its potential to its limit

 

[phibglib]

In regards to your characters their potential and their current use of their powers they have a lot of potential if their powers are used creativity for a few examples/ tips

Bardic Magic is able to do pretty much anything you can imagine when not bound by dnd rules and logic as one of its main subject is music magic that let's you do pretty much anything that can be put into a song or as long as it's accompanied by music that alone has limitless potential and can do things like create things out of nothing weaken enemies strengthen allies summon/ control minions brainwashing/ mind control and so much more and that's just one subset

Illusion magic is literally creation magic if you prefect it like Pozuzy has since the illusions become real and you can make any illusion you can think of the only issue is mana drain as making them real cost a lot

Abjuration magic is one of the most versatile but under used and uder appreciated magics possible because if the limits placed on it in dnd by its definition its literally protection magic and tge saying the best offence is a good defence applies here you could create reflective force fields to shoot any kind of magic back at the enemy barriers that strengthen allies and weaken enemies inside them barriers that seal of certain skills or abilities so effectively taking away your enemies best weapons you could set barriers around en enemy blocking the flow of oxygen and evening they can escape it would allow you or your allies to set up a more deadly attack and so on

Theurgy/Holy Magic is only restricted by the God your borrowing power from and it doesn't have to be only one it can be as many as you want/ gm allows and there is a God for literally everything so this is basically omi magic at its core can't remember what God/ gods your borrowing power from so I can't give much details advice here but remember each God typically has multiple domains and thse domains are very versatile so even if it's only one God you have a huge amount of options

Honestly the only things Phibglib that i agree with in this discussion are his assessment of your characters and that the guys in the library could handle the monster by themselves though it's not if they get seriously its if me and Shinny stop restricting them on the basis that they are students and still leaning honesty I could of ended the fight as soon as it started since its not even a named monster/ character all the bosses we are facing in the four events so far are the equivalent of roaming monster in a game we haven't even got to the mini bosses or the big bads yet but ending the fight that soon 1 would be boring and leave nothing for the others to do and 2 require me to bust out some of the more op abilities of my chosen power that my characters realistically shouldn't have access to atm since they are still in school and if they could already do those things they wouldn't need to be in school and would already be fighting in the war or teaching the students

Thank you for such a detailed response! Now the main risk I see is my characters becoming too OP. This is particularly challenging regarding Andalm's theurgy, since his God is literally omnipotent, making a deus ex machina that much easier. Really, it seems like the only way to do it properly is to have God tip the scales a little in Andalm's favor each time he prays.

 

[PharaohAtem]

Agnes: 316
Ivory: 126
Sage: 204
Raven: 111
Obsethine: 260
Stag: 175
Cress: 215
Tsuki: 200
Keesha: 17
Draco: 360.000
Cherry: 13?(This one seems to imply that she's been getting younger, so I don't know actual time passed)
Crimson: 24000
Piper: 175
Othranus: 178
Moon: 2300
Green: 2000
Lady Red: 300
Pozuzy: 460
Grace: 25000
Saber: 125000
Sokolov: 180,000
Rena: 526,000
Ali: 20
Manta: 800
Neptune: 1200
Andalm: 15
Nei: 17
Cerralei: 15
Roasty: Unknown
Celet: 18
Rose: 18
Saiotiga: 17
Asdreum: 14 (but has a demon that one could assume is much older)
Nekelett: Unlisted age
Faith: 14
Cynthia: 20
Taiga: 20
Jane: 3500
Wisp: Unknown
Mimi: Unknown
Christopher: 76
Frank: 862

While I could go through and pull out mean, median, and mode from those (removing the unknown and undisclosed ones to avoid errors produced by having to assume a value there). I will say that there are more people that are under 100 than I seemed to be internalizing. In that respect I was in error.

That said, there are plenty of creatures that get close to, or break past, that 100 year mark. Some of them by several orders of magnitude. Even if you're still a "child" biologically, you have still had all that time to learn. Children might struggle because of brain chemistry or structure to "get" some things, but they're not wildly incapable of learning stuff, especially as it relates to "not dying" as that tends to be a survival trait for species. Even if you last hundreds of thousands of years, it would seem like there would be a limit to how long it is feasible to have them requiring the parents' protection, to the level that an infant does, before it just wasn't viable as a reproductive strategy. And once again, infants might not have the physical abilities to do a lot of things, but they're not incapable of learning things. Unless the species is just not up to the task, like dogs and flat worms, it would seem likely that the growing child would in those very long years of physical immaturity still be able to pick up purely intellectual pursuits such as language, science, maths, understanding the behavior of the world around them, etc.

A lot of those characters are teachers and none of them are in the library I'm not saying characters like that don't exist in this rp my point was that your saying your character doesn't see the need to help out the ancient gods fighting a weak ink monster but the characters fight said monster are not remotely close to ancient gods the closest to that would be the Demons sealed inside the kids and their power is limited because they are sealed so again I asked who where you referring to when you said your character does not see any need to help out said ancient God like being?

 

[ShinyEve]

A lot of those characters are teachers and none of them are in the library I'm not saying characters like that don't exist in this rp my point was that your saying your character doesn't see the need to help out the ancient gods fighting a weak ink monster but the characters fight said monster are not remotely close to ancient gods the closest to that would be the Demons sealed inside the kids and their power is limited because they are sealed so again I asked who where you referring to when you said your character does not see any need to help out said ancient God like being?

I was about to say.

Draco is the Dragon Emperor, he's going to be old, since he is an Elder Dragon and Dragons have a long life span.

The teachers are obviously on another level than the students.

 

[PharaohAtem]

Thank you for such a detailed response! Now the main risk I see is my characters becoming too OP. This is particularly challenging regarding Andalm's theurgy, since his God is literally omnipotent, making a deus ex machina that much easier. Really, it seems like the only way to do it properly is to have God tip the scales a little in Andalm's favor each time he prays.

There are a lot of ways to handle limiting your characters power 1 put a self imposed limit on your powers sealing off certain abilities or susets of the power 2 build in a price/ weakness to using it like sabers madness in the case of God it may be omnipotent but many gods are fickle creatures choosing who to help what preys to answer and how much help they are willing to give and what they may ask for in return depending on how much they like/ need the person they are helping also like with illusion the power cost of perfect illusion is a built in weakness cos you need the mana necessary to make them real though this is a weakness that can be overcome by a character with high mana supply or ignored all together if the player chose/ gm allows

 

[Quibbles]

Honestly the only things Phibglib that i agree with in this discussion are his assessment of your characters and that the guys in the library could handle the monster by themselves though it's not if they get seriously its if me and Shinny stop restricting them on the basis that they are students and still leaning honesty I could of ended the fight as soon as it started since its not even a named monster/ character all the bosses we are facing in the four events so far are the equivalent of roaming monster in a game we haven't even got to the mini bosses or the big bads yet but ending the fight that soon 1 would be boring and leave nothing for the others to do and 2 require me to bust out some of the more op abilities of my chosen power that my characters realistically shouldn't have access to atm since they are still in school and if they could already do those things they wouldn't need to be in school and would already be fighting in the war or teaching the students

Doesn't this literally say that you could have ended it as soon as it started? That right there suggests that you do have the power I was suggesting they had. But you are correct on a larger scale. Of the people present, they aren't generally the ones with long lifetimes of experience. They simply have the more widely defined powers that gives them large tool boxes and display little caution which implies that they are under the impression that they can handle things. Also, Kodoku has seen direct evidence of one of them having the skill and power to fix the problem at their whim, so it has no reason to think that if that person cared you all wouldn't be fine.

 

[PharaohAtem]

Thank you for such a detailed response! Now the main risk I see is my characters becoming too OP. This is particularly challenging regarding Andalm's theurgy, since his God is literally omnipotent, making a deus ex machina that much easier. Really, it seems like the only way to do it properly is to have God tip the scales a little in Andalm's favor each time he prays.

Also the key point in your concern is "becoming to op" as in they are not atm so the most simple solution is slow down their speed in mastering their powers especially for the op abilities since they would naturally take a long time to master even for talented people

 

[phibglib]

Also the key point in your concern is "becoming to op" as in they are not atm so the most simple solution is slow down their speed in mastering their powers especially for the op abilities since they would naturally take a long time to master even for talented people

Agreed

 

[PharaohAtem]

Doesn't this literally say that you could have ended it as soon as it started? That right there suggests that you do have the power I was suggesting they had. But you are correct on a larger scale. Of the people present, they aren't generally the ones with long lifetimes of experience. They simply have the more widely defined powers that gives them large tool boxes and display little caution which implies that they are under the impression that they can handle things. Also, Kodoku has seen direct evidence of one of them having the skill and power to fix the problem at their whim, so it has no reason to think that if that person cared you all wouldn't be fine.

Yeah your right there powers are particularly powerful and I could make mince meat of the boss but did you miss the part where I explained

that would require them to use powers/ abilities they wouldn't have learned mastered or have access to yet since they are students if Rose had already mastered the power to use tine runes she could de age the monster into oblivion but she will never do that because she doesn't have access to that kind of time manipulation power yet and she never will because it's to op so I won't use it that's the first option of limiting powers I mentioned sealing of certain aspects of the power to keep it form becoming to op