Fantasy The Land of Lynthia

[DrBones]

So, what part of the paw does Fang use to pull the crossbow's string back into the nut? Speaking as someone who owns a dog, seeing them try to pull anything is almost an exercise in futility. They just don't have the muscles or range of motion needed to do it.

 

[KatsaNovari]

I just have a question: why is everyone assuming he's using both paws? If one paw is used to deploy the bolts (I won't pretend to know how that's possible, but I have a few ideas), can't Fang just use his mouth? Wolves have incredibly strong jaws, he should be able to pull back the string/trigger if the weapon was designed for him and the maker made it where he could do just that.


That is, of course, assuming if it's made that way.

 

[DrBones]

Because a wolf's mouth is much larger than a wolf's paws. Beyond that, saliva ruins mechanisms and you can't really direct your mouth in a straight line along your wrist. It'd be possible, but it isn't a reasonable solution at all.


Frankly, I can't see how Fang can do it. Canine anatomy just isn't suited for fine motor skills.


A pump-action crossbow really shouldn't be mounted on anything. That defeats the purpose of it being pump-action or mounted. If it's loose enough to be pumped, then it can fall off at a moment's notice. If it's secure enough to avoid falling off, you won't be able to pump it without loosening it first.

 

[KatsaNovari]

As I said, if it was designed to for Fang specifically, the maker could make it so it is possible. For instance, another, smaller device that allowed Fang to hook it to the sting and pull back so saliva wouldn't be a problem. This is, of course, a bit complicated, but I don't see why that can't be done. The next solution could be that it pulls itself back automatically with the aid of gears. It's a bit advanced for a weapon, but something I imagine the dwarfs could accomplished, whom are more advanced technology-wise.


If that doesn't seem suitable, either, there's magic. Enchanted crystals could be placed in the chamber of the device, and when Fang activates it, perhaps with pressure from a paw, the crystal lets forth a blast of air that seperates itself through several other chambers that then send out the bolts, replacing the need to pump the weapon. This would mean that Fang would have to keep these crystals handy at all times and recharge them, but I don't see why that can't be a solution.


Edit: I am currently making my post to the RP by the way ^.^

 

[DrBones]

The only way I can see it working is through magic handwaving. A magic gem that interfaces with his brain through his stainless-steel jawbone and lets him cock the crossbow and arm it at will. Of course, if you're doing that, you might as well just forgo the whole "crossbow" thing and just have a bracelet that shoots magic blasts, since you're putting a lot of magic in just to do something that would be more effective if it was just magic.


The only way winding a purely-mechanical hand crossbow can be made easier is through the use of engines. Adding gears will do nothing but increase the amount of force needed to draw it back, because now you need to pull the mechanism and the gears. If you've got a motor to do that for you, suddenly you have to either sacrifice draw strength to make the motor capable of pulling it back, or sacrifice portability by making the motor stronger (and thus larger). There is pretty much no realistic way for a canine to operate a hand crossbow by itself, and there is no way to make an automatic hand crossbow at all useful without turning it into what is basically just a more unwieldy regular crossbow.

 

[KatsaNovari]

The whole reason I made Lynthia was so that the impossible could be made possible. Obviously not everything here is 100% realistic: we have magic weilders, dragons, possibly unicorns, other fabled creatures, talking animals with intelligence equaling to that of an average human being, and so on.


I saw Thinslayer's character and thought: oh cool, there's something you don't see everyday, a wolf operating a weapon!


Don't get me wrong, things should make sense, and as realistic as possible in a fantasy world. If you guys really are dead set on being against a wolf being able to use a weapon, I'll ask Thinslayer to edit his character and add something different to him that's more suitable if he can't think of an answer to satisfy any of you. I didn't really care, it wasn't like he had a light saber or canon or something, and I would prefer it if everyone would try to help think of a more suitable way that Fang was able to use his weapon rather then disprove it, because of course a wolf couldn't really operate a cross bow weapon, or any weapon for that matter.

 

[Thinslayer]

I had an idea.


The original repeating crossbow was operated with a lever mechanism. Push to load, pull to fire. That should be readily possible with a wolf's paw.

 

[DrBones]

The addition of a pump compounds the issue of this crossbow being exceptionally unwieldy significantly.

A crossbow miniaturized to be able to fit on someone's forearm and then mounted on a wolf will not only result in the crossbow having much less force behind its projectiles, but Fang most likely not being able to run at all without accidentally shooting at the ground. It's just not a feasible design.


I'd stand by a magic projectile bracelet, personally. You've already added magic into your character with the inexplicably rust-proof and unbreakable stainless steel teeth that have somehow managed to fuse themselves to the jawbone. Hand crossbows have never, and will never, be useful as anything other than an emergency weapon against completely unarmored opponents. A canine will never be able to operate complex machinery attached to its forearms without a major skeletal structure overhaul.

 

[Thinslayer]

There's nothing magical about Fang at all (yet). The teeth armor was surgically installed by skilled doctors.

 

[DrBones]

So you're saying the fact that a set of teeth made from a metal that's more brittle than steel can somehow chew through actual steel plates isn't magical?

 

[Zerohex]

So I'd just like to say, I'm not against a wolf wielding a weapon, it's fantasy yes, I'd accept it just carrying around a sword in its mouth or something. It'd be silly but kind of easily justifiable. But when I asked for some explanation as to how exactly this character works its weapon because I just couldn't picture it, the answers given were either nonsensical or so convoluted the weapon might as well be replaced with straight magic, which is why I pressed the point. Because otherwise the time's going to come when Fang has to operate his weapon and it'll just be "well he fires his crossbows, somehow".


A fantasy world is fine and all, but "well it's fantasy I don't have to explain it" doesn't really apply when a wolf, a real life animal with no magic used to change it in any way beyond giving it a humanlike mind and the ability to speak english, is somehow using a crossbow, a real life weapon, despite its anatomy and the weapon's structure barring it from doing so.

 

[Thinslayer]

@DrBones


The brittleness of a material says nothing about its strength relative to other materials. Diamond is brittle, and it can still chew through metal and rock. Stainless steel is used in surgical instruments and cookware, so it can't be that bad.


 
@Zerohex


Dogs have paws, knees, and shoulders. They have claws. They can also stand up on their hind legs with some training. I'm pretty sure they have at least *that* much dexterity. The real problem is whether their paws can move a firing mechanism.

 

[KatsaNovari]

@Zerohex


That's why I'm asking that we try to make it where it can be possible, instead of saying why it can't be.


I'm doing my own kind of research that could, hopefully, help explain why Fang could use it as well as include some Lynthia flare, but I would only really be able to explain better and conduct better research on a laptop.


Again, if it really can't be explained or done, then I'll ask Thinayer to edit his character.

 

[Thinslayer]

I have this image in my head. Fang stands on his hind legs. He raises his left foreleg, bends it at both shoulder and knee, and places it on his straighened right foreleg. He drags his left forepaw down his right foreleg to load the bolt, then taps a button to fire.

 

[KatsaNovari]

@Thinslayer


This would make Fang much more anthromorphic. While a wolf can stand, or some canines that I know of, their forelegs can't bend the way you described with his left leg at all. And then I'm not sure if he could keep his balance on two legs if he could.


But that's okay. This is also why I allow others to make their own race. What if Fang was a different subspecies of wolf, one known only to Lynthia? Not only could he be larger than the average wolf, but you could give him some anthromorphic properties that the more common wolf species don't have, such as flexibility of the body and motor skills? He'd still be a lot more wolf than human, but he'd be able to stand and use his forelegs more freely as well as talk.


I'll have to think about this more if you like this idea so it'd fit with Lynthia, and it's not so he's like a werewolf or wereman, but I think we could think of something. Or maybe Fang has a gift that lets him mend his bones to work the way he wants them to?

 

[Thinslayer]

Yes, perhaps talking wolves are a whole new species on their own. Say they have more flexible limbs, something resembling fingers, and proper vocal cords.

 

[DrBones]

@DrBones
The brittleness of a material says nothing about its strength relative to other materials. Diamond is brittle, and it can still chew through metal and rock. Stainless steel is used in surgical instruments and cookware, so it can't be that bad.

You're right, stainless steel isn't quite as brittle as I thought. I had mistaken fragility for ductility. Something made of solid stainless steel is very susceptible to stress warping compared to harder and less flexible mild steels. Generally speaking, an object made of stainless steel struck against an object of greater hardness (i.e. mild steel) will deform long before it penetrates. What's going to happen is that Fang is liable to end up with steel in the lips and gums.


Diamond is used to penetrate metals and rock. However, it's not solid diamond. Solid diamond is so horrendously brittle that, if you're dumb enough to try and cut a piece of granite with it, all you'll end up with is a bunch of fractured diamonds. Objects reinforced with diamond are, at the very most, tipped with a thin layer of diamond or tiny bits of diamonds. That way, the diamond bits are slightly more difficult to ruin, but you still manage to keep their edge.


Stainless steel is used in surgical instruments and cookware because it doesn't rust and cleans easily. It's, for the most part, about as good as steel in most cases, but largely inferior for heavy-duty work (like, say, penetrating plate armor).


This isn't even reaching into the myriad of problems with a medieval society somehow understanding how to not only smelt chromium, but also how to custom-forge objects using a chromium alloy. Humanity didn't even understand the properties of chromium until well into the 1780s. Until then, the only known use of chromium was accidental, seen only in copper crossbow tips with a small amount of chromium impurities.

 

[Zerohex]

Honestly by this point I'd have to agree that yes, just some magic projectile launching thingy would make so much more sense and be so much easier than trying to weirdly justify a wolf operating a crossbow reliably and effectively or taking your suggestion and making what'll either wind up as a wolfman but totally not or a very, very strange wolf with extremely specific mutations.


Then again making patrol wolves/animals some kind of mad magic experiment to make anthropomorphic-ish wolves/animals that can speak and think like a human would be adding to the setting and doing away with little RP challenges such as "how is the wolf doing this thing that requires thumbs". Something something attempt to replicate xillies going on old stories.


At least it'd make more sense than taking an animal that naturally stands on four legs then expecting it to be able to stand on two reliably and steadily enough to hold out a crossbow attached to its forelegs, lets ignore questions of size and relative power of the bolts, then use its paws that lack the fine motor skills and the dexterity of human fingers to load up and fire said crossbow accurately and without taking forever.

 

[Thinslayer]

Well, this *is* a fantasy world, after all.


Okay. When I created Fang, I had these parameters in mind:


*He has to be able to speak.


*He must be knighly.


*His primary weapon, teeth, can block swords.


*He needs a created mechanical item to visibly set him apart and mark him as unique.


His teeth need to be able to reliably block weapons and pierce armor. They also shouldn't be detrimental to his own health (i.e. no rust or toxic metals).


The created mechanical item should be a weapon, since he's a knight wolf. His primary weapon is melee; hence, what he needs most is a ranged weapon. Bows are infeasible for animals.


Fang is not magical, nor does he have any use for magical items.


Got any alternatives for me that fits those parameters?

 

[KatsaNovari]

I might have something, I just need a little time as I'm currently fighting with my keyboard because it keeps turning off xD


In the meantime anyone is free to make suggestions. The more related to the setting, the better!

 

[DrBones]

So, why can't he be magical? He's already a talking wolf that can block swords with his teeth. You've already gone so far into the fantasy deep end that there's no way for your character to exist without magic taking a part somewhere in his species' history.

 

[Boomrocker]

Armor.


Having teeth that block swords is all well and good, but anyone with two hands can reach around and hit Fang while his main weapon is occupied. Armor covers an obvious weakness and marks him as both knightly and as a patrol wolf.


Ranged weapons are less important when the speed of a wolf provides a superb gap-closer, so there's barely any need for range when he can get up close and personal quickly. By ditching the crossbows and covering Fang's weakness with armor, you turn Fang from a literal master-of-none into a melee monster.

 

[Zerohex]

In case it wasn't obvious the likes mean those two posts above cover points I'd make

 

[Thinslayer]

I thought about giving him armor, but have you tried to imagine what that would look like? An armored dog looks ridiculous.


Magic would be too easy. Everyone and their grandmother can beat supervillains with magic.

 

[Zerohex]

Consider the following:


Your suggestion for your wolf firing his crossbows, if it were at all possible, would look absolutely ridiculous. He'd look like he's trying to do tricks for a treat. Barding is a thing, adapting it to law enforcement wolves is nowhere near as much of a stretch as magical collapsing crossbows your wolf somehow operates. As Bones already pointed out, your character is already so far into magical territory that you might as well accept it. Your other solution is making a magical wolf species to solve the problem of your already magically humanlike wolf not being able to magically do these things because you refuse to use magic.