Fandom Shirou Emiya's Smithing Shop - OOC

[HTCOR]

And merely based on what they've stated about the character, they should most likely have less Endurance than Assassin. Because each usage of their abilities just rips them apart.

And furthermore, I can outright state this.

They can endure some of my Noble Phantasms. A trump card wouldn't outright kill a Master.

 

[Birdsie]

We are only missing one servant and one master from what I can see. It's really not as bad as all that.

Hoping You're right.

I think I'll remove Ruler and make another Master for the Grail War, then cross my fingers and hope a Lancer will come to my doorstep. Ruler isn't really THAT required, since the Overseer is pretty strong already and has things handled. I mostly put Ruler in so that we have a firm line of defense against Beast's antics and there can be some development revolving around that, but I can always just have Beast lurking in the sidelines instead.

 

[Xel]

I just realized something horrible.


Caster and I have a shared skill which can lead to massive carnage....oh no...

*Cries as Masters are not safe*

How would you know what skills Caster has? :@

 

[cojemo]

And furthermore, I can outright state this.

They can endure some of my Noble Phantasms. A trump card wouldn't outright kill a Master.

Well that just makes things more interesting doesn't it? Not everything needs to be predictable and exactly like every other war, right?

 

[HTCOR]

How would you know what skills Caster has? :@

*Quietly removes the stalker cam*

 

[cojemo]

How would you know what skills Caster has? :@

Something tells me that skill is Territory Creation

 

[Xel]

Something tells me that skill is Territory Creation

Territory creation doesn't lead to massive carnage though

 

[cojemo]

Territory creation doesn't lead to massive carnage though

It could, depending on the territory.

 

[Darkholme]

There's a lot of different points of view being expressed here, and it's difficult to say that one side is right and one isn't. But I think I can solve the dilemma with one question to one person.


Hanarei Are you more interested in in roleplaying, or winning?

If the former, the presence of someone horrifically overpowered should mean little so long as an interesting story is told along the way. If the player of said "overpowered" character does wind up being a powergamer and not really enriching the experience; lesson learned, and you can blacklist them from then on.

If the latter - or perhaps both - then perhaps Fate RPs aren't your cup of tea.

 

[Birdsie]

Territory creation doesn't lead to massive carnage though

Not directly, unless you use it as a battery for something large and flashy

There's a lot of different points of view being expressed here, and it's difficult to say that one side is right and one isn't. But I think I can solve the dilemma with one question to one person.


Hanarei Are you more interested in in roleplaying, or winning?

If the former, the presence of someone horrifically overpowered should mean little so long as an interesting story is told along the way. If the player of said "overpowered" character does wind up being a powergamer and not really enriching the experience; lesson learned, and you can blacklist them from then on.

If the latter - or perhaps both - then perhaps Fate RPs aren't your cup of tea.

See? Another good argument from a person that understands things.

 

[cojemo]

There's a lot of different points of view being expressed here, and it's difficult to say that one side is right and one isn't. But I think I can solve the dilemma with one question to one person.


Hanarei Are you more interested in in roleplaying, or winning?

If the former, the presence of someone horrifically overpowered should mean little so long as an interesting story is told along the way. If the player of said "overpowered" character does wind up being a powergamer and not really enriching the experience; lesson learned, and you can blacklist them from then on.

If the latter - or perhaps both - then perhaps Fate RPs aren't your cup of tea.

Thank you! I agree, if I end up ruining things just blacklist me. However, as I've said many times I plan to make things interesting above all else, and in the end I find it very unlikely my character will even end up winning.

 

[Birdsie]

I don't always accept OP characters in fear of them being Mary Sues, but when a person asks me to TRUST them, I WILL, because everyone deserves at least one chance to prove their statement is right, no matter what that statement is.

In this case, the statement is that I should accept cojemo 's (self-admittedly) OP character. At first, I hesitated, but I eventually let it slip because of what I said above.

Roleplays are about being a fun, relaxing hobby. Creating a story together, putting characterization and thought, creating a compelling narrative, and devoting efforts to keep said narrative alive. If a person has issues because another character seems to be there only to infringe on the generosity of that narrative and doesn't give them a chance, they are distrustful for no valid reason. I could UNDERSTAND if Hanarei did what she did because of previous experience with the PARTICULAR player, but no such evidence was presented to me. No, in fact, it's quite the way around, and I myself hold previous experience with cojemo that points the opposite way.

 

[Kalin Scarlet]

There's a lot of different points of view being expressed here, and it's difficult to say that one side is right and one isn't. But I think I can solve the dilemma with one question to one person.


Hanarei Are you more interested in in roleplaying, or winning?

If the former, the presence of someone horrifically overpowered should mean little so long as an interesting story is told along the way. If the player of said "overpowered" character does wind up being a powergamer and not really enriching the experience; lesson learned, and you can blacklist them from then on.

If the latter - or perhaps both - then perhaps Fate RPs aren't your cup of tea.

I can agree with this line of thought 100%.

 

[Birdsie]

I don't always accept OP characters in fear of them being Mary Sues, but when a person asks me to TRUST them, I WILL, because everyone deserves at least one chance to prove their statement is right, no matter what that statement is.

In this case, the statement is that I should accept cojemo 's (self-admittedly) OP character. At first, I hesitated, but I eventually let it slip because of what I said above.

Roleplays are about being a fun, relaxing hobby. Creating a story together, putting characterization and thought, creating a compelling narrative, and devoting efforts to keep said narrative alive. If a person has issues because another character seems to be there only to infringe on the generosity of that narrative and doesn't give them a chance, they are distrustful for no valid reason. I could UNDERSTAND if Hanarei did what she did because of previous experience with the PARTICULAR player, but no such evidence was presented to me. No, in fact, it's quite the way around, and I myself hold previous experience with cojemo that points the opposite way.

I rest my case.

 

[Godhowsae]

I think I'll remove Ruler and make another Master for the Grail War, then cross my fingers and hope a Lancer will come to my doorstep. Ruler isn't really THAT required, since the Overseer is pretty strong already and has things handled. I mostly put Ruler in so that we have a firm line of defense against Beast's antics and there can be some development revolving around that, but I can always just have Beast lurking in the sidelines instead.

Well, you wouldn't necessarily have to give up Ruler existing if a Beast exists. Just use them whenever you actually want to use them.

 

[Girouette]

If I wished to submit an application/sheet for Lancer, would I first post the parameters and such in the CS area, or PM the full information to the GM first?

 

[Birdsie]

Well, you wouldn't necessarily have to give up Ruler existing if a Beast exists. Just use them whenever you actually want to use them.

It's not that I'm dropping Ruler for no reason. I just don't want to have too many characters.

My brain has this limit of 4-5 characters per roleplay. If I go above that, I lose interest in all of them altogether. I try to avoid making more than three, usually.

 

[Birdsie]

If I wished to submit an application/sheet for Lancer, would I first post the parameters and such in the CS area, or PM the full information to the GM first?

Whichever you believe is better. Also, PM the CS to the Master, aswell.

 

[Godhowsae]

It's not that I'm dropping Ruler for no reason. I just don't want to have too many characters.

My brain has this limit of 4-5 characters per roleplay. If I go above that, I lose interest in all of them altogether. I try to avoid making more than three, usually.

I'm saying the character can still exist. Just don't use it unless you feel you absolutely have to.

 

[Birdsie]

I'm saying the character can still exist. Just don't use it unless you feel you absolutely have to.

Nah, I'm telling you. I can't play properly. I'd rather focus my efforts on making Ruler interesting rather than dividing attention between too many characters for me, plus a Ruler is too important to NPC. I rarely do more than 3 full-time characters, and even when I do 4 is the absolute limit.

If I make 4-5 characters, I'll slowly start losing interest in roleplaying them. It will start with me favoring one of them strongly, then I'll just lose interest in the other three, try to make up for it, and lose interest in the one I liked in the first place.

3 is the best mental number of characters per roleplay for me. I could NPC Ruler, but as I said above, it's kind of pushing it to a weird place and makes the act unnecessary overall.

There have been only a few RPs I can name where I made more than a handful of characters.

 

[Girouette]

Currently working on a sheet for a lancer servant..

 

[cojemo]

Currently working on a sheet for a lancer servant..

I won't see their identity of course, but I'm looking forward to it! Also, sorry for pulling you into this current warzone of an ooc, haha. I swear it's not always like this

 

[Xel]

Well, having caught up I have to side with Hanarei on this. I already hated Saber's EX ranks (which were changed so that made me happy) and I still hate Berserker's EX ranks. Having a Master that's stronger than 99% of servants in a fight is just entirely unacceptable to me. If there was build up, if he worked for his power in the RP and managed to gain something from it that's another story. But just starting day 1 as being stronger than almost every servant to ever exist in the Fate Franchise? You can look through the servants made in all the various media of Fate and most of them would have to pull out their NP to fight Cojemo's master. That's exceptional levels of Gary Stu. There's being able to fight against Servants (Rin took a life from Berserker and Shirou killed Gil, it happens) but just running around with EX in all stats. I already hate the EX spam with servants and now we have a master that literally ONLY has EX? I can see why Hanarei was mad and wanted nothing to do with it. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd just instantly kill the guy if he tried to fight me I'd probably leave too. Luckily I have IC power to make sure the gary stu doesn't ruin the RP if it comes to that. So I'm not SO mad as to quit like Hanarei. But I can completely see where they were coming from. I wouldn't have even minded if it was A rank across the broad, but EX? I'm really getting tired of seeing EX ranks thrown around like candy in basic physical stats.

 

[HTCOR]

Okay, gonna start out with giving the Servant Stats for the RP, then the stats for Fate itself, as to give a reference.


Servants:
E - Above average for a human.
D - Peak-human.
C - Slightly paranormal.
B - Blatantly supernatural.
A - Godlike.
EX - Immeasurable.

So question. C Rank here, is EX Rank for Masters. I think we're all aware of that and all.

Compared to the regular scale of Fate...

E - 10x Better than Base Human
D - 20x Better than Base Human
C - 30x Better than Base Human
B - 40x Better than Base Human
A - 50x Better than Base Human
EX - Immeasurable by normal standards.

+ means 'Double' the regular standard. So A+ = 100x, A++ = 150x

So let's say...someone has EX in Endurance for a Servant. Alright? Pretty much it means they're 'Achilles' with his legendary Endurance. EX, as Xel stated, is simply not a rank someone has unless there's a stupidly outstanding reason, and even then, there better be some damn penalty to it. Like Achilles would probably burn a lot of Mana just by existing with such a potent Endurance Statistic. Sure, maybe you have a Noble Phantasm- Avalon- which grants you EX Endurance for a short period of time.

Which is fine, I guess? Achilles has such a famous legend that everyone would start aiming for his hill once they saw Greek Armor and the weaponry bouncing off them. Literally, 'Achilles Heel' is a famous way of saying 'Weak spot'.

Whereas someone with A+ Rank Strength, (Heracles, I see you), its been quoted 'They swung so hard that the very wind displaced by the blade could murder a regular person. Aka, Shirou almost gets murdered by the wind displaced by Heracle's blade. And he has A+ strength.

The main issue I have with the Stats in this however, is the jump from 'B' to 'A'.

B Rank means you're blanantly supernatural. Sure, you can run 50 mph. That's scary.

A Rank means you're literally going Super sanic ball speeds, with MLG ads playing in the background. (400 MLGs per hour, check? Or let's just go with 'You move fast enough to go flying 100 feet into the air on a ramp. Which is pretty darn fast.)

Gods ain't slow when they really get moving...

So basically Caster with their A Rank Mana in this, is pretty much Medea in Fate Stay Night on that basis- but they don't have the 'strength' of a 'I will crush you' person. They can't just punt someone out of their way in the scenario that someone gets absurdly close.

You can call me insane for this opinion, really. But it feels like the Servants are a mixture of debuffed and powered up in this. For example, A Rank is a lot higher than what a regular Fate A rank is. A+ Rank is Strongest Man in the World. Man. Not God. Atlas would probably be EX Strength, but in this, he's moreso A Rank. Why do I say that...?

He's Godlike strength. But he holds up the skies, so that's pretty darn impressive. And that's in his true form, giving all of his effort to not dying. Sky's pretty darn heavy, you know?

So yeah. Its not just 'Blatantly Supernatural' for a Servant at B rank. That's at E and D rank. E is already 10x the normal human, with D being 20x the normal human. There's a reason why you don't 'Fight a servant directly' because they're pretty much Gods in Flesh compared to pretty much every non-Magus out there. However, Magic is the tipping point for a Master. If you catch a Servant with something as Potent as Fragarach against Excalibur, Arturia would die. Painfully. And that's a mortal Noble Phantasm. Which is astounding on its own.

So let's say we had Caladbolg II hit someone. That's an A Rank Attack. Which pierces Caster's defenses like they're nothing. (Mind you, its normally A+ rank, but Archer using Projection downgrades all Projected items by '1 Rank')

So generally, a Master doesn't stand a chance against a Servant with just pure natural abilities- you'd be a horrid abomination of nature in that case. And that's among the Magus Community, and you'd be a Sealing Designation faster than someone could go 'Oh snap!'

Also, did you know that Archer, to fight against Lancer, he had to use his signature twin blades- which actually increase his attributes when held by one rank in Strength and Agility, and confers light magic resistance. (What do ya know?) Now, we know that D Rank Strength- what Archer has- is enough to fight Shirou when he's using the twin Noble Phantasms, which boost his strength to at least E Rank. Stack on the reinforcement he's using, and that's a nice solid D rank, right?

And then when Archer moves with his C Rank agility, he borderline teleports. And he's fighting Shirou fairly as he mentally comments to himself.


Edit: Correction - Archer's twin swords increase his physical resistance and magic resistance, not his stats. So the last part is a tad null. But still. Archer's holding back on Shirou when it comes to the speed game. And that's with C rank Agility he moves fast enough to slam into a target with enough force to knock them back, and D Rank Strength.

A mere kick with D Rank strength is enough to send the kid flying. Generally, kicks don't do that- they knock someone over if you hit them with a sideways kick. In EMIYA's case, it sends Shirou flying off his feet, around twenty feet or so. Whaddayaknow?

 

[cojemo]

Well, having caught up I have to side with Hanarei on this. I already hated Saber's EX ranks (which were changed so that made me happy) and I still hate Berserker's EX ranks. Having a Master that's stronger than 99% of servants in a fight is just entirely unacceptable to me. If there was build up, if he worked for his power in the RP and managed to gain something from it that's another story. But just starting day 1 as being stronger than almost every servant to ever exist in the Fate Franchise? You can look through the servants made in all the various media of Fate and most of them would have to pull out their NP to fight Cojemo's master. That's exceptional levels of Gary Stu. There's being able to fight against Servants (Rin took a life from Berserker and Shirou killed Gil, it happens) but just running around with EX in all stats. I already hate the EX spam with servants and now we have a master that literally ONLY has EX? I can see why Hanarei was mad and wanted nothing to do with it. If it wasn't for the fact that I'd just instantly kill the guy if he tried to fight me I'd probably leave too. Luckily I have IC power to make sure the gary stu doesn't ruin the RP if it comes to that. So I'm not SO mad as to quit like Hanarei. But I can completely see where they were coming from. I wouldn't have even minded if it was A rank across the broad, but EX? I'm really getting tired of seeing EX ranks thrown around like candy in basic physical stats.

...Do you even know what Gary stu means? It doesn't necessarily mean being strong for no reason, but being insanely perfect. Jeremy is far from perfect, and whole reason he's in the mess he is in is because of his gigantic ego and need to be better than everything. Plus, he basically has C stats all around, so he can fight evenly with a lot of servants but he isn't stronger than them. I'm not going to meta game, unlike you who seems to want to do that to kill my character off. I unlike a lot of people here apparently like to focus on making things interesting. There's nothing wrong at all for having a strong Master, and just because it isn't done often doesn't mean it never should be done. Trust me, I understand the hate for EX spam as I hate that as well, but it fits the theme for my character.