[OOC Thread] The Darkened Halls [Walking with the Darkness]

[Persell]

Oh how I wish I had bought a Cache Egg....

Maybe try asking Cyl about a custom Craft/Lore/Occult Charm to store items Elsewhere in the vein of Many-Pockets Meditation?

 

[cyl]

He posted in Clashing Waves just recently.
But yah, what's happening with Rasheel and co?

Well I'm waiting for you to decide your course of action.


Typhon just made a deal with Teana, Teana's going to steal the sword for him and bring it to one of his agent... so that's three targets you can go after... one is the most obvious threat to your plan of retrieving Soul Mirror (Teana), the other is the less easy to find (the agent), and the last one is a very annoying person and political figure (Typhon)... but is Mask's protégé... pick one

 

[Persell]

Stiches has already stated her stance. She'd like to go pick up Savage Wraith now and forget about getting the sword. After all, it's still going to end up in the service of Oblivion, and they've been told to stay out of trouble. Getting into a big mix up with the daughter of one of the three involved is probably not going to help lull them into a false sense of security... also, she'd like to get out of this city as soon as possible and back to somewhere where she doesn't have to, ya' know, not kill people.

 

[cyl]

Figures

 

[Haku1]

"Mew!"


And there is silence as She Who Lives In Her Name taps the forum with her order inducing paw!

 

[cyl]

So just a quick update.


Soon will begin the infiltration of the constable and the theft of Soul Mirror.


All interludes, except the one involving Raisa and Sage will end while scene 3 will start soon when everybody's back on the boat.


I am going to ask you to resolve your projects in the interludes by friday. (i.e. yes the Artificer will find his poison) if we can't rp them to get the team together again for scene 3.


I know it kinda sucks, and won't do as many split ups again in the future, promise

 

[Jukashi]

Let us get this party started!

 

[Arthur]

The Artificer will also warn the Constable about a possible thief using Blood Mirror Speech. I'll post something tomorrow.

 

[Persell]

By the by, if Nomaz Kalid uses some sort of memory eraser, such as a certain Stealth Charm, would Stiches be able to hit it with Lesser Horrors Scorned on the grounds that memory erasure is almost certainly a form of mental influence?

 

[cyl]

By the by, if Nomaz Kalid uses some sort of memory eraser, such as a certain Stealth Charm, would Stiches be able to hit it with Lesser Horrors Scorned on the grounds that memory erasure is almost certainly a form of mental influence?

I was tempted to say yes at first, but then I read the Vanishing from the mind's eye method again.


It's not a social effect and not explicitely a mental influence, not like Mental Invisibility Technique (which states it imposes a mental influence, and against which LHS would work as a perfect defense), and Integrity or MDV cannot defend against it, you need a wits+lore to pierce through the fog.


This charm... needs clarifications:


- doesn't state the moment from when it kicks in


- doesn't state if people can be spared or not...


That's one of the strangest power. But the Night Anima Power has a similar feel so...

 

[Persell]

By the by, if Nomaz Kalid uses some sort of memory eraser, such as a certain Stealth Charm, would Stiches be able to hit it with Lesser Horrors Scorned on the grounds that memory erasure is almost certainly a form of mental influence?

I was tempted to say yes at first, but then I read the Vanishing from the mind's eye method again.


It's not a social effect and not explicitely a mental influence, not like Mental Invisibility Technique (which states it imposes a mental influence, and against which LHS would work as a perfect defense), and Integrity or MDV cannot defend against it, you need a wits+lore to pierce through the fog.


This charm... needs clarifications:


- doesn't state the moment from when it kicks in


- doesn't state if people can be spared or not...


That's one of the strangest power. But the Night Anima Power has a similar feel so...

It also doesn't state what sort of range it has, or whether it requires line of sight, whether a failed roll covers only that specific instance, lasts for the day or is permanent. It doesn't state how you'd stop the effect either, since, as written, it automatically works on a Deathlord and there's no way to stop having to make those rolls whenever it becomes relevant... so if some FA asshole hit the Walker with that charm, he still has to make a roll to remember that asshole, and will until the day he vanishes into Oblivion. Neither does it state what happens if a character is confronted with undeniable evidence of the user's existence.


I'd say it probably should count as mental influence, since if a character with, say a Motivation involving the user, gets hit by this charm, and they fail the roll (which is weighted strongly towards the user) they effectively forget their motivation.


In essence, it needs a lot more definition.

 

[saganite]

Vanishing From the Mind's Eye is fine as it is. Arcane Fate is a very similar effect, and IMO, this seems to me to be an attempt by Rebecca Borgrstrom/Jenna Moran's to replicate this in a Solar Charm with far less broad scope and level of power. Arcane Fate isn't Mental Influence, nor is it an attack. In fact, it could potentially be considered a defense of sorts more than anything else.

It also doesn't state what sort of range it has, or whether it requires line of sight

My guess it would be that it would affect anyone, anywhere who tried to remember the effect. I imagine "memories" in Creation come from an individual's connection to the Loom of Fate and the specific events that tie them to it. As from my reading of VFtME I believe it obscures the Solar, rather than directly force people to ignore memories about her, anyone and everyone who tried to remember the Solar would have to roll. Pretty good, but it only works as long as the motes remain committed.

whether a failed roll covers only that specific instance, lasts for the day or is permanent.

The duration is listed as Indefinite, so I would imagine it's permanent as long as the motes remain committed to the Charm. As written, the roll happens once per day. If you pass, you remember for that day. If you fail, you forget for that day, and have another chance the next.

It doesn't state how you'd stop the effect either, since, as written, it automatically works on a Deathlord and there's no way to stop having to make those rolls whenever it becomes relevant...

Though, it's worthwhile to note that said Deathlord would probably have an arbitrarily high enough pool to beat the Solar's rolls in the first place, and Excellencies to enhance said roll if need be. If he still failed, or the Solar rolled super high, or both, it happens. Sometimes the dice play in your favor, other times they don't.

so if some FA asshole hit the Walker with that charm, he still has to make a roll to remember that asshole, and will until the day he vanishes into Oblivion. Neither does it state what happens if a character is confronted with undeniable evidence of the user's existence.

Only if said FA asshole kept the motes committed to VFtME. As soon as the motes became uncommitted, the effect would disappear.

 

[Persell]

Vanishing From the Mind's Eye is fine as it is. Arcane Fate is a very similar effect, and IMO, this seems to me to be an attempt by Rebecca Borgrstrom/Jenna Moran's to replicate this in a Solar Charm with far less broad scope and level of power. Arcane Fate isn't Mental Influence, nor is it an attack. In fact, it could potentially be considered a defense of sorts more than anything else.

It also doesn't state what sort of range it has, or whether it requires line of sight

My guess it would be that it would affect anyone, anywhere who tried to remember the effect. I imagine "memories" in Creation come from an individual's connection to the Loom of Fate and the specific events that tie them to it. As from my reading of VFtME I believe it obscures the Solar, rather than directly force people to ignore memories about her, anyone and everyone who tried to remember the Solar would have to roll. Pretty good, but it only works as long as the motes remain committed.

whether a failed roll covers only that specific instance, lasts for the day or is permanent.

The duration is listed as Indefinite, so I would imagine it's permanent as long as the motes remain committed to the Charm. As written, the roll happens once per day. If you pass, you remember for that day. If you fail, you forget for that day, and have another chance the next.

It doesn't state how you'd stop the effect either, since, as written, it automatically works on a Deathlord and there's no way to stop having to make those rolls whenever it becomes relevant...

Though, it's worthwhile to note that said Deathlord would probably have an arbitrarily high enough pool to beat the Solar's rolls in the first place, and Excellencies to enhance said roll if need be. If he still failed, or the Solar rolled super high, or both, it happens. Sometimes the dice play in your favor, other times they don't.

so if some FA asshole hit the Walker with that charm, he still has to make a roll to remember that asshole, and will until the day he vanishes into Oblivion. Neither does it state what happens if a character is confronted with undeniable evidence of the user's existence.

Only if said FA asshole kept the motes committed to VFtME. As soon as the motes became uncommitted, the effect would disappear.

So it lasts as long as the cost is comitted? Doesn't state that in the Charm, but it does make it a lot balanced.

 

[cyl]

Yeah Indefinite duration charms are committed.


(I remember reading something about scene longs, but reading the corebook about commitment, it seems only indefinites are actually committed).


So it tampers the effects of the charm.


I'm still unsure of the boundaries of the charm in terms of people affected/time.


It seems that everyone in Creation who's met the solar can't remember him... which in the case of First Age Solars might be problematic, because most of them could have disappeared without a single trace, and no siddy or DB could've ever found them.


(I mean, take an essence 6 using this charm + an excellency in a combo, oy).


I think that the "retroactive stealth" is the most problematic (well for me it is):


does it mean you are really hard to remember whenever you want to be.


or


does it mean that as long as you're under the effect of the charm, you are hard to remember for those you had interactions while the charm is active (which is probably the original intent).

 

[saganite]

(I remember reading something about scene longs, but reading the corebook about commitment, it seems only indefinites are actually committed).

That's incorrect, actually. ALL Charms with a Duration longer than instant are committed for the entireity of the their Duration. This includes Scenelongs, Action-longs, and the like. This is why BotBM can be broken for Sidereals, but also completely fuck them over. For a potentially nasty effect (albeit one Celestials can ignore almost effortlessly), you're taking up to 20 motes entirely out of an already small pool for the whole scene.

does it mean that as long as you're under the effect of the charm, you are hard to remember for those you had interactions while the charm is active (which is probably the original intent).

This does make more sense, however given how the Charm's written, I'd probably lean more towards this:

I think that the "retroactive stealth" is the most problematic (well for me it is): does it mean you are really hard to remember whenever you want to be.

It's also good to remember, that as memory is a pretty small field, having a Charm or effect that allows you to perfectly and totally recall things isn't too out of the question at middle, let alone High Essence. Even without that, they should have a high enough pool and an Excellency to have a fighting chance at this. IMO, it's safe to assume that despite the Charm's power, if someone had high enough Essence and wanted to remember the Solar, they would be able to do so.


EDIT: One last thought. Concerning those who have intimacies/Motivations tied towards a Solar making use of this Charm, I suggest that they'd get some kind of bonus when making the memory roll. Perhaps they can use it as stunt fodder, or maybe you give them something arbitrary like one or two dice for an intimacy or three for a motivation related specifically to the Solar in question (these bonuses probably shouldn't stack with each other, of course), or maybe even successes (one for intimacies, two for a motivation?). ST fiat would probably be the best determining factor in how much of a bonus one should get.

 

[Coyotekin]

Must....PlAy.. :twitch, twitch:

 

[cyl]

Just so you know, I have rewritten Blazing Solar Bolt (because the day might come when I blast one at one of you :twisted: ) to the following:


Same cost and basic system.


When this charm is used, the target DV automatically becomes 0 as no one can hide himself from the holiness of the Unconquered Sun, cover and shields are ignored as well.


Charms raising DV can be used, as well as stunts, but they only count as bonuses towards the base DV of 0. Perfect defense are applicable.


I am also considering rewriting Ebon Lightning Prana too, because it has too many effects compared with BSB:


- auto draw


- auto initiative


(those two were in the 1e version of the charm...)


- auto unexpected attack


- Piercing Damage


- movement enhancement


I will keep the auto draw movement and the go first schtick, because they're too cool to be erased, but I might change the P tag (suppressing it), and auto unexpected attack (maybe applying another type of penalty to DV) because there's just no way you need a combo to perfect defend against that one if the solar mirror can be perfectly defended.


Will get back to you soon, maybe I'll just do the same as with BSB, DV becomes 0.

 

[cyl]

Must....PlAy.. :twitch, twitch:

Take action then

 

[saganite]

Personally, I think that while cool, the automatic initiative win shouldn't be a Melee effect - it's best suited as an Awareness Charm. Auto-drawing your weapon as part of the Charm somewhat breaks things and makes Blade-Summoning Gesture useless (why would someone ever use BSG when they can just go first and automatically draw their weapon with one Charm?)


On the other hand, giving the attack the Piercing tag does fit the style, and nicely balances the Holy effect of Blazing Solar Bolt. Also, while you could make ELP affect DVs like BSB, I think giving a reflexive roll to make the attack unexpected better shows a thematic difference between Solar and Abyssal Charms/natures, all the while remaining at a nearly-equivalent level mechanically.


I think that as written in Abyssals, ELP seems more like a Combo than a Charm (a Combo that breaks the rules, of course, with BSG ). Just my opinion and view of things, take it as you will.


EDIT: This is unrelated, but how privy to the existence of Chimerae would Sidereals be? More specifically, would Raisa know of them? My guess is that she'd probably clump all Lunars together in one, but then I'm not totally sure.

 

[cyl]

Tch, neither CtB nor BSG have the Combo-OK keyword... now it makes me want to keep the autodraw even more


With the rewrite of BSB, there are no more reasons for ELP not to be auto unexpected now : technically both DV drop to 0, and BSB is way better because its reducing DV effect is not as limited as it was before by charm use, and though ELP is easily countered by suprise negating effects, there is still the need for a combo to use a perfect defense.

 

[saganite]

That is a problem though. You should never need a Combo to defend against one Charm. Well, at least an Essence 3 Charm. This is why you should make ELP give a reflexive attempt with +Melee dice rather than an automatic one. This ensures that anyone with a decent pool is going to have a very good shot at making the attack unexpected, and the defender still has some chance. If the defender fails to beat the attacker's unexpected attempt, then he's in a far worse situation than if he'd been hit with Blazing Solar Bolt. If he passes, then he still gets hit with a solid attack that cuts through his armor like its nothing.

 

[cyl]

That is a problem though. You should never need a Combo to defend against one Charm.

At first I thought that most charms using unexpected attacks would prove this one wrong, but actually they don't.


Here's a system I kinda like (taken from Ebon Shadow Style):


The opponent cannot apply either of his DVs against the character’s blow without the use of reflexive Charms. The target’s player may attempt a reflexive (Wits + Awareness) when the target is attacked—the diffi culty equals the attacker’s Essence. If the roll succeeds, the opponent may use any reflexive Charms or abilities he possesses to counter the attack. If the roll fails, the opponent may use only Charms that specifi cally state they work on attacks of which the character is unaware.


But still it cannot compare with BSB... though I guess the auto draw-initiative + piercing damage kinda make up for it.

 

[Laundreu]

Just so you know, I have rewritten Blazing Solar Bolt (because the day might come when I blast one at one of you :twisted: ) to the following:
Same cost and basic system.


When this charm is used, the target DV automatically becomes 0 as no one can hide himself from the holiness of the Unconquered Sun, cover and shields are ignored as well.


Charms raising DV can be used, as well as stunts, but they only count as bonuses towards the base DV of 0. Perfect defense are applicable.


I am also considering rewriting Ebon Lightning Prana too, because it has too many effects compared with BSB:


- auto draw


- auto initiative


(those two were in the 1e version of the charm...)


- auto unexpected attack


- Piercing Damage


- movement enhancement


I will keep the auto draw movement and the go first schtick, because they're too cool to be erased, but I might change the P tag (suppressing it), and auto unexpected attack (maybe applying another type of penalty to DV) because there's just no way you need a combo to perfect defend against that one if the solar mirror can be perfectly defended.


Will get back to you soon, maybe I'll just do the same as with BSB, DV becomes 0.

Suggesting that you drop Piercing and make the unexpected something you roll - Target's Wits + Awareness at a difficulty of the caster's Essence or Melee or Melee + Essence, Iunno. If the target wins, it's not unexpected, but you still get auto-initiative, quickdraw, and the movement. That puts it on a rough par with the new BSB.

 

[Coyotekin]

:to the music of Walking on Sunshine:


I used to think maybe you loathed me, not baby I'm sure.


And I just can't wait til the night when you release my soul


Now everytime I wear light-colored clothing gotta beware Res-so-naaaaance


Cos you just can't wait until Creation comes tumbling down


I'm Walking in Darkness


Wooooooah


I'm Walking in Darkness


Wooooooah


I'm Walking in Darkness


Wooooooah


And the living are all doomed. Hey!

 

[nobble]

haha


katrina and the waves would be shaking in their boots