[OOC] The Halls of Discussions [The Nightmare of Telistar]

[Ligier]

Something should happen because praying to gods and getting some kind of positive response has a set difficulty of (7 - the amount of resources spent), which in this case is zero because Celestial Exalts don't tend to carry around hard cash.

 

[Red Shadow Claws]

That really does rock Ligier. Will never look at a Zenith the same again.

 

[Persell]

His own training having been far afield from the healing arts and the woman still apparently requiring aid despite the pilgrim's stabilization.

The Pilgrim gets credit for my work. This is why no one has heard of me before. Someone else gets credit for all the good I've done.

 

[Red Shadow Claws]

I think it's mostly due to the fact that the Pilgrim left someone to try and tend to that woman, and his shining success at praying to the ship's god.

 

[Persell]

I'm sure that for anyone who came in after the fact would probably assume that Pilgrim did it. Ryu doesn't look or act very doctorily (is that even a word?). Visually, it just makes more sense for Pilgrim to be the one with the mad medical skills rather than Ryu.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Does Lenaria know either Solar personally?

 

[Ligier]

Also Pilgrim did actually help her before Ryu, he just didn't get as many successes as he doesn't have any medicine charms.

 

[Atrius Night]

oops....sorry, about that......

 

[Myllinnia]

I'm feeling kinda bad, but once I get out of the fever is too much for me phase I'll write something worthwhile for our new Solar intro as well as some movement.

 

[Red Shadow Claws]

No worries. Feel better.

 

[NoisyCricket]

I'm feeling kinda bad, but once I get out of the fever is too much for me phase I'll write something worthwhile for our new Solar intro as well as some movement.

And none of us have contagion curing touch.


Oh well, rest up!

 

[Ligier]

All you other guys could strike up a conversation IC!

 

[Ligier]

OOC: No one besides the Sidereals knows the true scope of the loom, and they kept it from the rest, especially from the Solars.

No-one knows the true scope of the Loom except the Sidereals and senior gods, but the Sidereals did go to the First Age Solars and say "Hey guys. You know all these crazily powerful things you're doing and creating? Can you tone it down, because it's tearing apart the Loom of Fate."


The Solar reply was "Cool, let's run experiment on how we can tear apart the Loom!"

 

[Andrensath]

Nominating Ligier for a 3-die stunt right there.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Nominating Ligier for a 3-die stunt right there.

As am I.


And yes, Lenaria doesn't trust Solars or Sidereals farther than she can throw them...well, maybe even less than that, given her stats. Which, honestly, can you blame her? And it sets up a nice crisis when she has to die in their defense...


Anyway, yeah, inter-party conflict FTL, but I'm down with working through it with people.

 

[Myllinnia]

Oh boy. I honestly didn't calculate Interparty conflicts when I considering introing the pilot xD Well give me an hour or two, and I'll figure something out, assuming I'm clear minded enough to do so effectively.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Interparty conflict aside, one wonders if active social attacks on one's fellow party members is productive? I'm all for getting into a debate, and harsh words have been exchanged - but seriously, lets end it there. Going down the essence expenditure line is going to result in unpleasantness we really don't need.

 

[Ligier]

The social attack itself is only a mundane one which doesn't even add to limit if you spend willpower resist it, but I thought it might do something to draw the party together if he could get them to agree on something, like "40,000,000 dying is really pretty awful". Nothing really bad there. Perhaps I should have gone for a compelling behaviour of "Don't argue or attack each other" because that's basically what I'm after anyway, some interparty peace, but I thought people would object to a compulsion but building an intamacy would be fairly innocous.


The charm effect just happens automatically because of a permanent charm I picked up which augments all performance social attacks.


Edit: This also means that you have to spend WP twice. Once to resist the actual social attack, one to resist the charm side-effect.

 

[Ligier]

Unfortunately, I left the USB stick with my copy of Sids at home, so I'm not sure if Yavandir can get either MDV (Dodge 6, Parry 4) high enough to resist the attack. If she can't, she'll spend wp to resist, and then make a social attack on Lenaria.
EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Appearance bonus/penalty only apply to seduction attempts?

No, it applies to all social combat rolls. Page 172 of the core. It has such a large effect that most social characters, like Pilgrim, will make sure they either start with high appearence or can get a high appearence.


With Pilgrim's current appearence combined with his Jewel Of The Lawgiver's Authority, Yavinder has a Dodge MDV of 1 and a Parry MDV of 0 before charm use.

 

[Persell]

The social attack itself is only a mundane one which doesn't even add to limit if you spend willpower resist it, but I thought it might do something to draw the party together if he could get them to agree on something, like "40,000,000 dying is really pretty awful". Nothing really bad there. Perhaps I should have gone for a compelling behaviour of "Don't argue or attack each other" because that's basically what I'm after anyway, some interparty peace, but I thought people would object to a compulsion but building an intamacy would be fairly innocous.
The charm effect just happens automatically because of a permanent charm I picked up which augments all performance social attacks.


Edit: This also means that you have to spend WP twice. Once to resist the actual social attack, one to resist the charm side-effect.

I am not the best writer around, but I'll try to get my point across as best I can.


I love how people use the words 'just' and 'only' as well as certain phrases (ie 'all I did was...'). I've learned to really pay attention when those words are used. They're usually used to emphasize how trivial something is that is not very trivial at all. You only made an attack against me. It is just 2 willpower. All you did was give me an intimacy I don't want.


It's called social combat. That means you make attacks to get the effect out of it. Let's compare it to physical combat. You made an attack using NMI which we can liken to bashing damage. It probably won't kill you, but you still get wound penalties and once you're unconscious, you're dead anyway. So no big deal. I like social combat being a part of the system, but, in my experience, people forget that it has a damaging and lasting effect on another character.


I can get no more than 10 willpower. I have 6. You cost me 2 of those. I can get more health levels, but willpower is a static 10 max. Willpower is a valuable commodity in this system. I've seen more characters lose due to running out of willpower than essence. Essence is probably easier to spend, but willpower is slower to return. Having to go into a fight 2 willpower down could be a death sentence. Having to worry what another character will do to mine because I'm out of willpower is frustrating to no end.


Finally, there's the effect of the attack that I chose to accept or failed to defend against. I consider myself a roleplayer, not the best out there, but I have some skill. So, when I am laden with an effect that changes my character, I try to roleplay it. Make no mistake, adding or subtracting an intimacy makes a change in a characters personality. The new intimacy may even conflict with an existing one or just go against how I see my character.


I am a fan of social combat. It is part of the reason I like Exalted 2nd Edition more than most systems. I suggest that a player should use social combat against another PC with the same frequency as you use physical attacks against them. Not every social interaction need be a rhetorical barroom brawl.

 

[CrazyIvan]

The social attack itself is only a mundane one which doesn't even add to limit if you spend willpower resist it, but I thought it might do something to draw the party together if he could get them to agree on something, like "40,000,000 dying is really pretty awful". Nothing really bad there. Perhaps I should have gone for a compelling behaviour of "Don't argue or attack each other" because that's basically what I'm after anyway, some interparty peace, but I thought people would object to a compulsion but building an intamacy would be fairly innocous.
The charm effect just happens automatically because of a permanent charm I picked up which augments all performance social attacks.


Edit: This also means that you have to spend WP twice. Once to resist the actual social attack, one to resist the charm side-effect.

I am not the best writer around, but I'll try to get my point across as best I can.


I love how people use the words 'just' and 'only' as well as certain phrases (ie 'all I did was...'). I've learned to really pay attention when those words are used. They're usually used to emphasize how trivial something is that is not very trivial at all. You only made an attack against me. It is just 2 willpower. All you did was give me an intimacy I don't want.


It's called social combat. That means you make attacks to get the effect out of it. Let's compare it to physical combat. You made an attack using NMI which we can liken to bashing damage. It probably won't kill you, but you still get wound penalties and once you're unconscious, you're dead anyway. So no big deal. I like social combat being a part of the system, but, in my experience, people forget that it has a damaging and lasting effect on another character.


I can get no more than 10 willpower. I have 6. You cost me 2 of those. I can get more health levels, but willpower is a static 10 max. Willpower is a valuable commodity in this system. I've seen more characters lose due to running out of willpower than essence. Essence is probably easier to spend, but willpower is slower to return. Having to go into a fight 2 willpower down could be a death sentence. Having to worry what another character will do to mine because I'm out of willpower is frustrating to no end.


Finally, there's the effect of the attack that I chose to accept or failed to defend against. I consider myself a roleplayer, not the best out there, but I have some skill. So, when I am laden with an effect that changes my character, I try to roleplay it. Make no mistake, adding or subtracting an intimacy makes a change in a characters personality. The new intimacy may even conflict with an existing one or just go against how I see my character.


I am a fan of social combat. It is part of the reason I like Exalted 2nd Edition more than most systems. I suggest that a player should use social combat against another PC with the same frequency as you use physical attacks against them. Not every social interaction need be a rhetorical barroom brawl.

Exactly this. Especially as honestly, if one continues down the "Social" combat line, its not outside the realm of possibility that those of us who didn't make social characters may go down the *other* combat line.


Social combat is still attempting to impose *your* will on another character, and is not "free punches" under some sort of sticks-and-stones paradigm.


Incidentally, for the GM clarity: The point of WP was expended to ignore the "Everyone respect the Pilgrim" charm effect. Adding an intimacy for the people of Creation is *shrug*.

 

[Ligier]

Stuff

Stuff

Okay, I can see where you're coming from with this, but on the other hand there's a lot you're not taking into consideration.


Firstly this is where we're supposed to meet each other and start working together. Now roleplaying is great, it's what this entire game is about, but it's also meant to be a group game. When you're meant to be forming the group that you'll play through the campaign with, it's completely nonsensical to start insulting other PCs or threatening them. Roleplaying your character is great, but at some point common sense in regards to the metagame has to come into it. Some people took the antagonism too far and I was providing a way out, so we could come together as a circle. It obviously didn't work out that way, but that was my intention.


Secondly, the charm effect was only used because it's a permanent charm so Pilgrim isn't supposed to be able to turn it off. If Myllinnia says it's allright then I'll have Pilgrim turn it off in future (although I'm not going to make a habit of social attacking PCs), and even retroactively remove it from the social attack I just made so no-one is at risk of gaining an intimacy or limit there. It wasn't the point of the social attack, I was simply playing by the rules and including it because that's what I was supposed to do. If I'd known people would have got so bothered about it, I would have asked Myllinnia if I could turn it off in advance. Frankly I didn't see it as being a problem because I'd hoped that in a few scenes our exalts would all have enough respect and trust for each other that we'd have developed mutual intimacies anyway.


Third, a social attack like this is nothing like an actual attack*. Saying otherwise is simply exagerration. I don't want to underrate social combat, but it's not the same as coming at someone with a daiklave.


Lastly, and this is the important one, if it's really bad that then you could very easily have just had it not effect your character in any way. Performance attacks take six long ticks, which is a considerable amount of time. Character can automatically tell when someone's trying to to be engaged in social combat and the talents of a Zenith preacher should be obvious. If your character knows they might be at risk of having their opinion changed and they don't want to, which is the case here, there are plenty of ways to roleplay which wouldn't have resulted in complaining.

"Please stop," interrupts CHAR_NAME, just as Pilgrim launches into his speech. "While I'm sure you would be persuasive, I think that this is a matter where we should make up our own minds rather than relying on your honeyed words."
If Pilgrim continues despite the attempts to stop him in his tracks, CHAR_NAME plans to leave bridge and meet the three senior exalts as they make their way into the ship.

Seriously, it's that easy. Pilgrim would have stopped if someone asked, and even if they didn't he can't social attack someone if they're not there.


For instance, I think the whole basis of this comment:

So, when I am laden with an effect that changes my character, I try to roleplay it.

Is completely incorrect in that it assumes I'm forcing changes upon the way you all play your characters. You're in no way 'laden' with such an effect until your character, through roleplay and based on your own character's personality, decides to stand there and listen to Pilgrim rather than remove themselves from a person that they know might easily sway their mind. Now this might involve attacking Pilgrim as CrasyIvan suggested, although a more obvious and reasonable option would be to simply leave the room.


That your characters suffered the social attack is because you roleplayed them doing it.


*Except Abyssal social attacks, which can be a lot like actual attacks and will sometimes make people explode.

 

[Andrensath]

Ligier, you may want to edit that post. Otherwise it looks like you're telling Yavandir what she already knows.

 

[Ligier]

Meant to be talking to Lenaria, will edit.

 

[Andrensath]

On the social-combat/no social combat issue, Yavandir is a Sid. Outside of MA, she has no ability to create custom charms. This pretty sharply limits what she can and cannot do with her Essence.


Also, I, personally, feel that instituting a 'no social attacks on other PCs' rule is a bad idea, as it instantly rules out pretty much the entire Performance tree without creating custom ones to limit the effects. Which Sids can't do. (And, well, of Yavandir's 12 charms, 5 are Performance ones. If we do ban socially attacking other PCs, she's either going to have to be rebuilt, or waste a lot of XP to be effective.)