New Version of Anathema

[UrsKR]

You're welcome

 

[UrsKR]

Hey, no rush. You guys are doing an awesome job with it just by making it Java, and if I'm desperate I can use windows.

Jontu K. has just told me that he has successfully ran Anathema 1.1.1 on a Java 5 Mac.


Go with the .zip if you're desparate, if not, you can wait for wordman.

 

[wordman]

Go with the .zip if you're desparate, if not, you can wait for wordman.

Sorry I'm so slow on this. Won't be long.

 

[Samiel]

The fact that you're doing it is enough, I think. Good man, Wordman.

 

[UrsKR]

Indeed. Take your time, it's cool enough you're doing this at all!

 

[Samiel]

Seriously though, I'd love to see a wildcard charm or a homebrew charm editor. It's the only real restriction left on character creation: with every other facet of CC, you can just ignore the suggested BP and charm table on the left and build away, but there's no way to say "I have a custom charm" or to purchase charms not yet released for Anathema.


I think that rather than focusing on integrating charm trees from new books into Anathema, you might save yourself some effort by releasing a charm-tree editor and letting someone else hammer charms into it.


Failing that, where does one go to edit charm trees in Anathema? As a .jar file, it's basically a compilation of lesser modules, but when I looked for one containing the information I wanted to tweak/add to, I turned up a blank?





I love Anathema, but sometimes you just can't make a character in it because of the lack of wildcards for merits/flaws/charms..

 

[wordman]

Mac release of 1.1.1 is ready.

 

[UrsKR]

I think that rather than focusing on integrating charm trees from new books into Anathema, you might save yourself some effort by releasing a charm-tree editor and letting someone else hammer charms into it.

I know everyone but me is totally keen on custom charms, especially given the backlog that has accrued since Scroll of the Monk, but unless I'm not totally satisfied with the charm format - which I am not, not until I've found a way to nicely model and internationalize charm costs - such a thing won't see the light of day, since that single change would out-date everything you had entered so far. Also, such a tool - albeit practical - just isn't cool to develop. Trust me, I've done it.

Failing that, where does one go to edit charm trees in Anathema? As a .jar file, it's basically a compilation of lesser modules, but when I looked for one containing the information I wanted to tweak/add to, I turned up a blank?

You looked in the wrong spot, I guess. Try Character_[TYPE].jar, look for *.xml and *.properties. By 1.1.1, you can even add your own .jars with charms for a given type. Have a look at Character_MartialArts.jar for an excellent, pure-XML-no-Java example of how it's done.
You'll be less lucky with merits and flaws, though. Stay ignorant, or you'll lose every bit of respect you might have for me as a developer. It's the single worst part of the program I can think of.

 

[Samiel]

Mac release of 1.1.1 is ready.

I love you. It is a deep and abiding love.


Edit: Oooh... It's even a Universal Binary, you cad you..

 

[Samiel]

Before I write further, I'll just let it be known that I'm only suggesting things I'd like to see as a user, and in no way criticising your work. The time you spend producing the new features of Anathema is probably the reason for its quality compared to EdsExalted and other such tools, so I'm very satisfied with Anathema and I'll keep reccomending it.


Without further ado then:

Such a tool (A custom charm maker - C) - albeit practical - just isn't cool to develop. Trust me, I've done it.

Perhaps it was odd of me to suggest that other people be permitted to create the official charm trees for Anathema, as I understand that quality would rapidly become an issue. However, a simple solution to the "Custom Charms" problem would be to have a new 'catagory' of charms besides Solar/Martial Arts/Whatever, called "Custom". I may be making it sound easier than it probably is, but there could be a set of blank charms there, placeholders that might be renamable.


The aim wouldn't be to develop permenant charm trees, but individual charms for individual characters. For example, an Eclipse character learning Principal of Motion at CC could purchase two wildcard charms and call one POM, the other N/A to have it not turn up on the sheet, or whatever. I'd be happy with a quick framework that didn't even allow for charm attributes to be entered, so long as it was available.


You have your reasons, though, I'm sure. You're the developer after all!

You looked in the wrong spot, I guess. Try Character_[TYPE].jar, look for *.xml and *.properties. By 1.1.1, you can even add your own .jars with charms for a given type. Have a look at Character_MartialArts.jar for an excellent, pure-XML-no-Java example of how it's done.

Thanks for the tip, I'll go hunt that data now. I'd be eager for this sort of thing, and at least I'm some good at reverse engineering, even if I don't know much XML...

You'll be less lucky with merits and flaws, though. Stay ignorant, or you'll lose every bit of respect you might have for me as a developer. It's the single worst part of the program I can think of.

I don't doubt it!


I have a suggestion if it might ease things: I usually model Merits with backgrounds in Anathema. I know this doesn't work out well for 4-dot and 6-dot merits, but I use it for 1-3 dots in order to balance the costs and in order to have the Merits show up on the character sheet.


Perhaps a clone of the Backgrounds handler with its own area of the character sheet could fulfill this need?


Scale the costs linearly rather than according to the Background costs for 4/5,


Leave the cost to the user to select,


Allow negative costs,


Allow costs above 5.


Then people can input the name of their chosen merit/flaw, and fire away.


Equally I suppose you could make a clone of the equiment database and add costs, both positive and negative, but that'd take a lot more effort than just cloning the Backgrounds handler.

 

[Flagg]

BHowever, a simple solution to the "Custom Charms" problem would be to have a new 'catagory' of charms besides Solar/Martial Arts/Whatever, called "Custom".

What might be a little smoother is to allow the program to create and import/export multiple custom charm databases, so that people can create and share them, rather than packaging anything unofficial with the release.

 

[Samiel]

That's pretty much what he said you can do with the XML business, but it's not a quick solution to a given problem/issue. No biggie, I guess, but all the same..


I see them as two separates. The XML additions have far more potential, and can allow the community to create new charms for Exalt types not covered or even released by WW yet, like Infernals and Alchemicals. That's awesome and to be encouraged.


The wildcard is just for a quick custom charm, or to fill the gap for end-users who can't use XML who want canon charms not yet covered. It's purely for individual characters as opposed to a clear solution, and needn't have any finesse or beauty to it so long as it achieves the desired result and holds a place on the sheet for a custom charm/Spirit charm. It would also fill the gap for Mortals if it were allowed as a charm tree for them, because they could buy spirit charms and a merit to represent a wyld shaman, or an initiation MA charm for monks, etc etc.


I make no demands and offer no criticism, I merely suggest what I think would be cool. I'm DLing 1.1.1 at the moment, and will likely abuse that XML system as soon as I can figure it out. I see 2e Alchies in my future..


(Actually, Alchies would probably be a nightmare to build in Anathema.. O_o The charm-switching evilness of it all.)

 

[Samiel]

How does one go about decompiling/opening a .jar file on a Mac? Hopefully I don't need the Java Development Kit just to fiddle with an embedded .xml file?  :?

 

[wordman]

How does one go about decompiling/opening a .jar file on a Mac? Hopefully I don't need the Java Development Kit just to fiddle with an embedded .xml file?  :?

Dirty secret: .jar files are just .zip files with a specific directory layout inside them.


You can also use "jar" on the command line, which works more or less like tar does.

 

[UrsKR]

Thanks

Perhaps it was odd of me to suggest that other people be permitted to create the official charm trees for Anathema, as I understand that quality would rapidly become an issue.

Not at all. It's my perception and fears (along with Sandra's) that forbid this more than anything else.
Basically, I want responsibility or deniability, and outsourcing only gives me the bad parts of both. Also (lacking tools), entering a charm is only that much slower than checking one, but is more entertaining for some reason.


As for your suggestions, they are most interesting. I like them both (though I probably will never touch the Charm part), and can well imagine adapting your solution for M&Fs once it's their time in 2E.

 

[UrsKR]

Gah, hidden page alert.


Flagg's suggestion is what is (mostly) done and unreleased for the reasons mentioned. Doesn't support MA's yet, and will only add (not remove/edit).


Samiel's thought steers in another direction entirely, treating these Charms as an extension to an individual character, which is interesting for completely different reasons.


Alchies, while doable now that Generics are a part of 2e, would cause you some headache. If it'only for the charms, you'll be fine, but anything else...nah. Unsupported as yet, I think.

 

[Persell]

Ok, first... I love anathema and all


Second, I am no expert at the computer, actually I am pretty much what you would consider a noob.


third... my problem. I installed the latest version of anathema and it refuses to open with telling me that I need "Java Runtime Environment 1.6.0" it even opens a link to the java homepage where I can find the latest version. Which is 1.5.0 and which is installed on my machine. What am I missing?

 

[wordman]

I need "Java Runtime Environment 1.6.0" it even opens a link to the java homepage where I can find the latest version. Which is 1.5.0 and which is installed on my machine. What am I missing?

What OS?

 

[Persell]

Windows XP. Sorry that I forgot to mention that.

 

[memesis]

Seriously though, I'd love to see a wildcard charm or a homebrew charm editor. It's the only real restriction left on character creation: with every other facet of CC, you can just ignore the suggested BP and charm table on the left and build away, but there's no way to say "I have a custom charm" or to purchase charms not yet released for
Anathema

The fact is that a custom Charm editor exists now, it functions for everyone who's used it, and it exports XML.  It's called Lore 5.

 

[UrsKR]

Hey Safim,


please have a look at the FAQ on the website for the solution to your Java 6 problem.


Regards


-Urs

 

[Persell]

Thank you, the link there solved my problem

 

[Samiel]

The fact is that a custom Charm editor exists now, it functions for everyone who's used it, and it exports XML.

 

[UrsKR]

Worth quoting indeed, even more so as it reminds that I'd like to pose two questions: First, how do you generate the trees displayed in the charm trees? Albeit not crossing-free, I quite like the look of them.


Second, how *DO* I export to XML? It's probably hidden in plain sight, but anyway...

 

[Samiel]

Gah! I got truncated. The aforementioned quote was followed by: But, does it export to Anathema?


Edit: Sorry UrsKR, that wasn't a naked quote! Sorry for the confusion!