How to learn about the curse?
- Thread starter Charon
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Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
Berserk Anger just has you -attacking- and killing like you would normally. Only... you don't CARE who or what you attack.
Also, for the solar who increases one of his other virtues in game so that it goes over his former primary? What is the REASON for the other virtue to go up, instead of the primary virtue? This are LIFE-changing/defining items.
Invincible Sword Princess is a valor-based dawn, and started with compassion 2, conviction 2, temperance 2, valor 3. She likes to kill stuff. She also has this nasty habit of occassionally snapping and going berserk as she loses her temper, and starts fighting, and then losing herself in the burning white heat of battles.
She gets a talking to by her friends and allies, telling that this is a problem. Her former Immaculate Order monk zenith even agrees to help her meditate and stuff to get better control.
Outside of the game, the Player buys up ISP's tempermence, hitting 4, maybe 5.
Invincible Sword Princess is more level headed now outside of combat, but... she still has this problem, which she struggles with to keep in check, that she has to keep in check to avoid going berserk. Her friends and circle know about this and try to keep her out of situation where her temper could rampage out of control (aka avoid limit break conditions).
So, she limit breaks less often now... is generally calm and resists temptation like a saint. But, her temper is STILL there, poke at it enough, insult her enough and she loses control... and you won't LIKE it when she's angry.
EDIT -
On the other hand, you can always talk to your ST after increasing and shuffling your virtues about like this... where you change the curse so that it's now in line with your new primary virtue.
Where before ISP snapped and berserked out when insulted enough... she goes overboard as she struggles to keep her composure... turning her back on the world, doing meditations... shaving head... whole nine-yards.
Her explaination? She's doing this to avoid letting her temper run wild.
***
No, there isn't any canonical rule that says this MUST happen, but there is also no rules that say the curse can not change with your virtues. Of course, with the Dragonblooded, their curse does shift depending on which is their primary virtue.
Also, for the solar who increases one of his other virtues in game so that it goes over his former primary? What is the REASON for the other virtue to go up, instead of the primary virtue? This are LIFE-changing/defining items.
Invincible Sword Princess is a valor-based dawn, and started with compassion 2, conviction 2, temperance 2, valor 3. She likes to kill stuff. She also has this nasty habit of occassionally snapping and going berserk as she loses her temper, and starts fighting, and then losing herself in the burning white heat of battles.
She gets a talking to by her friends and allies, telling that this is a problem. Her former Immaculate Order monk zenith even agrees to help her meditate and stuff to get better control.
Outside of the game, the Player buys up ISP's tempermence, hitting 4, maybe 5.
Invincible Sword Princess is more level headed now outside of combat, but... she still has this problem, which she struggles with to keep in check, that she has to keep in check to avoid going berserk. Her friends and circle know about this and try to keep her out of situation where her temper could rampage out of control (aka avoid limit break conditions).
So, she limit breaks less often now... is generally calm and resists temptation like a saint. But, her temper is STILL there, poke at it enough, insult her enough and she loses control... and you won't LIKE it when she's angry.
EDIT -
On the other hand, you can always talk to your ST after increasing and shuffling your virtues about like this... where you change the curse so that it's now in line with your new primary virtue.
Where before ISP snapped and berserked out when insulted enough... she goes overboard as she struggles to keep her composure... turning her back on the world, doing meditations... shaving head... whole nine-yards.
Her explaination? She's doing this to avoid letting her temper run wild.
***
No, there isn't any canonical rule that says this MUST happen, but there is also no rules that say the curse can not change with your virtues. Of course, with the Dragonblooded, their curse does shift depending on which is their primary virtue.
The zombie cat
Member
My only mistake was in the last line I quoted, I assumed the corpse of your defeated foe would be your first target, this wont necessarily be the case. Of cause behavior as extreme as attacking allies will be noticed even by the most unobservant, and destroying any inanimate objects around will leave a scene people will recognize as strange.
I also assumed that a experienced soldier would be able to tell the difference between a careful controlled style and somebody going berserk, actions such as leaving position in formation (without bothering to issue a challenge) and making wide slashes rather than careful thrusts. I know there isn’t anything in the rules to back this up but it makes sense.
Of cause making the connection between, this solar if fucking nuts, and that solar is fucking nuts in a completely different way, to all solars are fucking nuts is not automatic (although many people are wiling condemn entire groups after a single bad experience) and an extreme leap to get from all solars are fucking nuts, to the problem is with the exaltation shard, and more so to expect a curse.
Edward
Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
However, if you look at the triggers for Berserk Anger, it doesn't trigger until you've been insulted or hit with some sort of unnatural mental effect... who knows what that mental effect is meant to do.
But yes... there are hundreds of solars, and they're all insane in their own ways. Their curses shouldn't just be pigeon-holed to the curses listed in the book, it should be unique to them.
And you can't call out a solar that he did anything wrong. A solar is perfection in everything he does, if he does something that you find odd, chances are he meant to do it, and it's most likely for the good in the LONG run. And that's in the First Age. That's assuming it doesn't get white-washed, which they presented in the... water-aspect book in 1e where a Dragonblooded wrote a letter to another, explaining why he's joining the Ursuption.
In the Second Age, THAT bastard is an anathema, of course, he's going to snap and kill people and destroy cities. It's what they do. And yes, people generalize. They have a bad experience with a solar, they'll view other solars in an equal bad light.
If you listen to the elder lunars, they'll tell you about how the solars are cursed with the insanity of being perfect in an imperfect world. You talk to the Sidereals, they'll talk about how the solars went mad in the first age with a thousand different theories on the why.
But yes... there are hundreds of solars, and they're all insane in their own ways. Their curses shouldn't just be pigeon-holed to the curses listed in the book, it should be unique to them.
And you can't call out a solar that he did anything wrong. A solar is perfection in everything he does, if he does something that you find odd, chances are he meant to do it, and it's most likely for the good in the LONG run. And that's in the First Age. That's assuming it doesn't get white-washed, which they presented in the... water-aspect book in 1e where a Dragonblooded wrote a letter to another, explaining why he's joining the Ursuption.
In the Second Age, THAT bastard is an anathema, of course, he's going to snap and kill people and destroy cities. It's what they do. And yes, people generalize. They have a bad experience with a solar, they'll view other solars in an equal bad light.
If you listen to the elder lunars, they'll tell you about how the solars are cursed with the insanity of being perfect in an imperfect world. You talk to the Sidereals, they'll talk about how the solars went mad in the first age with a thousand different theories on the why.
The zombie cat
Member
All true. But it was being clamed that people wont eve notice that the solar is having mood swings, I maintain that they will.
Edward
Edward
memesis
One Thousand Club
Flyck
Senior Member
I agree with the 'keep it in theme with the dominant virtue. Â Although Haku raises an interesting idea for house-ruling. Â I actually kind of like the idea that the limit break changes with whatever virtue is currently higher. Â
In any case, humans are naturally emotional creatures. Â As much as we joke about such things as 'emo', really anyone can get overly pissed off to the point of blind rage (I know I can), or may have days when they feel like saying 'screw you world, I don't care about anyone else". Â As much as we may try to keep a level head, having such intense emotions are in many ways what sets us apart from the vast majority of the animal kingdom. Â To say that people will find it odd that an exalted goes bezerk and slaughters everything in his path, is also saying that 'normal' eople in general aren't capable of such visual displays of anger. Â Now, of course they are, but maybe not to the frequency and/or intensity displayed by the Exalt in question. Â But if not every exalt displays such a lust for homicide under extreme anger, then odds are good they'll pin it on more of a personaitly quirk. Â Or at leat, that's my rationlization (not all exalts will have the same triggers to their limits).
Oh, and I still say that if you REALLY want to know about the curse, why don't you go down to the Labyrinth for a chat with the Neveborn... Â :twisted: Â Just don't expect to walk away sane... Â at least if you didn't plan ahead of time with some Integrity charms...
In any case, humans are naturally emotional creatures. Â As much as we joke about such things as 'emo', really anyone can get overly pissed off to the point of blind rage (I know I can), or may have days when they feel like saying 'screw you world, I don't care about anyone else". Â As much as we may try to keep a level head, having such intense emotions are in many ways what sets us apart from the vast majority of the animal kingdom. Â To say that people will find it odd that an exalted goes bezerk and slaughters everything in his path, is also saying that 'normal' eople in general aren't capable of such visual displays of anger. Â Now, of course they are, but maybe not to the frequency and/or intensity displayed by the Exalt in question. Â But if not every exalt displays such a lust for homicide under extreme anger, then odds are good they'll pin it on more of a personaitly quirk. Â Or at leat, that's my rationlization (not all exalts will have the same triggers to their limits).
Oh, and I still say that if you REALLY want to know about the curse, why don't you go down to the Labyrinth for a chat with the Neveborn... Â :twisted: Â Just don't expect to walk away sane... Â at least if you didn't plan ahead of time with some Integrity charms...
memesis
One Thousand Club
One point which I hope is not lost is this: Â the game assumes that the Limit Break mechanism exists, it assumes that it was not uncovered for what it really is (the death-curse of the Primordials), and it presents Limit Break as a mechanism to encourage flawed, larger-than-life characters.
The assumption that Limit Break works must underpin whatever you come up with. Simply saying "oh well, any fool could notice that the Solar was acting oddly" defeats this assumption. Â If this is your position, you should remove Limit Break from your game.
Likewise, if you want Limit to stay in, your assumptions must allow it to work.
I think a great example of making Limit "work" comes from my previous game, where our normally gentle Twilight snapped. Â People were rioting in a city he'd helped build up, and he was overcome with frustration at their short-sightedness. Â Mumbling, "you.. you idiots.." he waded into the crowd and administered a righteous beat-down.
Everyone in the Circle pretty much thought the crowd had it coming, the Twilight expressed remorse to his Circlemates, but the circumstances were such that anyone who looked at would make a different judgment depending on who they were. Â To the crowd, a powerful magical being punished them for being in a mob - a scary thing, but also kind of a wash in the overwhelming madness that is mob behavior. Â To the Exalted, it was stopping people from destroying too much of their own vital infrastructure, and rightfully administered.
The assumption that Limit Break works must underpin whatever you come up with. Simply saying "oh well, any fool could notice that the Solar was acting oddly" defeats this assumption. Â If this is your position, you should remove Limit Break from your game.
Likewise, if you want Limit to stay in, your assumptions must allow it to work.
I think a great example of making Limit "work" comes from my previous game, where our normally gentle Twilight snapped. Â People were rioting in a city he'd helped build up, and he was overcome with frustration at their short-sightedness. Â Mumbling, "you.. you idiots.." he waded into the crowd and administered a righteous beat-down.
Everyone in the Circle pretty much thought the crowd had it coming, the Twilight expressed remorse to his Circlemates, but the circumstances were such that anyone who looked at would make a different judgment depending on who they were. Â To the crowd, a powerful magical being punished them for being in a mob - a scary thing, but also kind of a wash in the overwhelming madness that is mob behavior. Â To the Exalted, it was stopping people from destroying too much of their own vital infrastructure, and rightfully administered.
The zombie cat
Member
Actually during the first age the solars mental instability was noticed by many. It was noticed by many of there lunar spouses. It was noticed by there bronze faction sidereal advisors, it was noticed by many terrestrials.
For this mental instability as well as there decedent rule they where all killed. It never occurred to anybody that it was a curse, but they blamed the shards enough to lock them away for all time (they hoped)
Edward
For this mental instability as well as there decedent rule they where all killed. It never occurred to anybody that it was a curse, but they blamed the shards enough to lock them away for all time (they hoped)
Edward
Just take a Solar woth Valor 4 and compassion 3 who has Berserk Anger as a virtue flaw.
Hardly a groundbreaking concept ; the guy's tough and gung-ho but he's also a good guy who wants to help.  Help damsel in distress and all that.  Half of the hero police officier from movies fit that profile of virtues.
That character will sometime go berserk and kill everyone in sight, which will include innocent sooner or later.
If he goes berserk in a bar after being insulted by the local bully, he might kill the bully, his three firends, the barmaid who didn't get out of his way fast enough, her twelve year old son who tends to the table, a pregnant woman sitting at the table, her husband who tries to protect her etc. ÂÂ
And knowing what a melee focused Solar is capable, we all know this can happen pretty fast before the bar has the time to empty of potential targets.  It could be a blood bath where the "guiltiest" victim is the the local tough guy whose worst sin might just be that he's a mean drunk.
With Compassion 3, the Solar is going to feel like shit when he cools down.
When he was a mortal, in that same situation he'd just have punched the annoying drunk in the face and perhaps brawled with his friends.  He knows that.  He's been in that situation before.
And the kicker is, if that Solar with Valor 4 and Compassion 3 saw some kind of maniac killing everyone in the bar, you know he would be the first to try to stop him.  So the curse sometime turn him into the kind of bad guy he'd normally try to stop.
He's not gonna be able to rationalize away his behavior in a satisfying way.  Neither are his close friends.  And they are bound to seek an external explanation to this dilemna that don't involve him being doomed to become a baby killer because that guy won't be able to live with any other theory. ÂÂ
Does that guy and his close friends have enough to guess that he's cursed?  Certainly not right away but he has a hell of an incentive to pursue the idea that it's the exaltation that made him this way and that there is a way to fix it because otherwise he might have to hang himself.
He doesn,t even need to have all that much to go on in order to launch a full investigation into this idea.
No offense to religious people, but the pious keep having faith in a God they have never seen and whose actions on the world have ever only been recorded in unreliable documents that are millenia old and exactly as likely to be entirely true as the tales of the Knight of the Round table or the Odyssey.  Still they believe against all factual evidence because they need to believe in the salvation of their soul.
A Solar would be just as likely to come up with a theory that absolve him of his sins and offer salvation.  Then he'd be just a zealous in pursuing it.  Especially considering that if he digs deep, he'll actually find evidence that he's right. ÂÂ
Snake and apple, anyone?  It's not that unlikely for the mind to believe that we are fallen just as it is natural for it to believe it can be saved.  A story about being damned by the Primordials and needing to purify themselves somehow won't be a hard sell to the less intellectualy inclined Solars.
And that's still not accounting with a Solar who is quite simply gifted at getting to the truth of the matter despite overwhelming opposition to his ideas like Copernic did.
Hardly a groundbreaking concept ; the guy's tough and gung-ho but he's also a good guy who wants to help.  Help damsel in distress and all that.  Half of the hero police officier from movies fit that profile of virtues.
That character will sometime go berserk and kill everyone in sight, which will include innocent sooner or later.
If he goes berserk in a bar after being insulted by the local bully, he might kill the bully, his three firends, the barmaid who didn't get out of his way fast enough, her twelve year old son who tends to the table, a pregnant woman sitting at the table, her husband who tries to protect her etc. ÂÂ
And knowing what a melee focused Solar is capable, we all know this can happen pretty fast before the bar has the time to empty of potential targets.  It could be a blood bath where the "guiltiest" victim is the the local tough guy whose worst sin might just be that he's a mean drunk.
With Compassion 3, the Solar is going to feel like shit when he cools down.
When he was a mortal, in that same situation he'd just have punched the annoying drunk in the face and perhaps brawled with his friends.  He knows that.  He's been in that situation before.
And the kicker is, if that Solar with Valor 4 and Compassion 3 saw some kind of maniac killing everyone in the bar, you know he would be the first to try to stop him.  So the curse sometime turn him into the kind of bad guy he'd normally try to stop.
He's not gonna be able to rationalize away his behavior in a satisfying way.  Neither are his close friends.  And they are bound to seek an external explanation to this dilemna that don't involve him being doomed to become a baby killer because that guy won't be able to live with any other theory. ÂÂ
Does that guy and his close friends have enough to guess that he's cursed?  Certainly not right away but he has a hell of an incentive to pursue the idea that it's the exaltation that made him this way and that there is a way to fix it because otherwise he might have to hang himself.
He doesn,t even need to have all that much to go on in order to launch a full investigation into this idea.
No offense to religious people, but the pious keep having faith in a God they have never seen and whose actions on the world have ever only been recorded in unreliable documents that are millenia old and exactly as likely to be entirely true as the tales of the Knight of the Round table or the Odyssey.  Still they believe against all factual evidence because they need to believe in the salvation of their soul.
A Solar would be just as likely to come up with a theory that absolve him of his sins and offer salvation.  Then he'd be just a zealous in pursuing it.  Especially considering that if he digs deep, he'll actually find evidence that he's right. ÂÂ
Snake and apple, anyone?  It's not that unlikely for the mind to believe that we are fallen just as it is natural for it to believe it can be saved.  A story about being damned by the Primordials and needing to purify themselves somehow won't be a hard sell to the less intellectualy inclined Solars.
And that's still not accounting with a Solar who is quite simply gifted at getting to the truth of the matter despite overwhelming opposition to his ideas like Copernic did.
Kremlin KOA
Beastly Member
try this virtue flawSafim said:
Temperance flaw: overindulgence
this flaw activates faster if you follow your virtues
think about it a teetotaler exalt, the very image of self control (temperance 5) has to roll 5 dice every time he follows his virtues to avoid delaying his missions and having a series of drinks
if he has the drink he will gain one limit
so after a while this guy, who never touched alcohol pre exaltation, goes in a drinking binge of epic proportions, so much so that the town he is in goes fry until the next booze shipment
and he cannot even NOTICE that he has changed since exaltation
riiiiight
FluffySquirrel
Member
Charon.. this comes back to an earlier point.. if you're playing a char with high compassion.. .. errr.. DON'T take Berserk Anger? ^^
Use another limit break, or make your own... but if you -know- the character isn't going to be able to deal with it.. .. don't take it.. make one that fits him better
And Kremlin.. if you take that virtue.. you should really be -wanting- to play a character who's struggling to be temperate.. but just -really- enjoys the odd drink or seven hundred. If you don't.. don't take that limit, take ascetic drive instead ^^
Really, I see lots of people generally seeming to pick limits without thinking how or why they fit characters.. limits are as much a part of the character as any other bit of the sheet... you should always consider how they're going to act when under it, and it should make sense, whether it's a monk struggling against a desire for worldly pleasure, a compassionate fighter who get's reeeeally annoyed when he sees the innocent being undertrod, or an overly conviction based char who'll sometimes just figure emotion is useless.
Use another limit break, or make your own... but if you -know- the character isn't going to be able to deal with it.. .. don't take it.. make one that fits him better
And Kremlin.. if you take that virtue.. you should really be -wanting- to play a character who's struggling to be temperate.. but just -really- enjoys the odd drink or seven hundred. If you don't.. don't take that limit, take ascetic drive instead ^^
Really, I see lots of people generally seeming to pick limits without thinking how or why they fit characters.. limits are as much a part of the character as any other bit of the sheet... you should always consider how they're going to act when under it, and it should make sense, whether it's a monk struggling against a desire for worldly pleasure, a compassionate fighter who get's reeeeally annoyed when he sees the innocent being undertrod, or an overly conviction based char who'll sometimes just figure emotion is useless.
Ned
New Member
Copernicus and Gallileo weren't just great thinkers. They had the most advanced technology and mathematics of their time to analyse the data. They needed Keppler's laws of motion and telescopes to find the point were the theory broke down, they didn't just sit in a dark room and think for decades. Sometimes it takes more than genius level intellect to come to find the problem in a theory, you need the means to find the break in the logic and then make a new conclusion that takes this into account. That is how the human mind works.Charon said:
Taking heliocentricity as an example: if one looked at the sky they would see everything moving but not feel like they were moving. Thus the logicial conclusion is that everything is moving and we aren't. Gallileo and Copernicus looked at the heavenly bodies and noticed that they didn't obey Keppler's Laws of motion if we assumed that the earth was the centre. Then it was discovered that some planets randomly changed direction which couldn't happen if the earth was the centre. But, using Keppeler's laws and assuming that the sun was the centre solved the problem. If it wasn't for the laws of motion and telescopes to observe the planets then they wouldn't have been able to come to that conclusion.
My point was that you can't just use raw logic to come to the conclusion that there is a curse. The Twilights would need some way to properly analyse the shard to realise that it was the problem and not the imperfect human vessel. The twilights could come up with a way to analyse the shard, probably trying to see if there is a way to mess with it to get rid of limit breaks, and then find that the shard is broken. At that point they would be able to use the logic that you put forward to realise that they are cursed.
The zombie cat
Member
If you had access to an appreciable number of solars then it wouldn’t take log to work out that most go threw periods when they act in a manner they would not normally act in, and wouldn’t have acted in as a mortal.
While mortals do acquire such traits it is not common, for solars to randomly be chosen with these traits would be improbable to the point of impossibility. Thus there are limited options to explain it.
The exaltation chooses people that are seriously flawed in some way.
The power of the exaltation exacerbates the flaws of mortal character.
The exaltation is the origin of the flaw (ether threw inherent flaw or external curse).
If you have 5 solars and you see 4 of them limit break, and see 9-10 limit breaks, coming up with this information shouldn’t be to difficult.
There is however no way I can see to determine which is the case. Indeed the very fact that the curse dost affect different incarnations of the same shard in the same way would indicate that the shard is not the origin of the insanity.
Edward
While mortals do acquire such traits it is not common, for solars to randomly be chosen with these traits would be improbable to the point of impossibility. Thus there are limited options to explain it.
The exaltation chooses people that are seriously flawed in some way.
The power of the exaltation exacerbates the flaws of mortal character.
The exaltation is the origin of the flaw (ether threw inherent flaw or external curse).
If you have 5 solars and you see 4 of them limit break, and see 9-10 limit breaks, coming up with this information shouldn’t be to difficult.
There is however no way I can see to determine which is the case. Indeed the very fact that the curse dost affect different incarnations of the same shard in the same way would indicate that the shard is not the origin of the insanity.
Edward
Why wouldn't I make a conflicted character? ÂÂFluffySquirrel said:Charon.. this comes back to an earlier point.. if you're playing a char with high compassion.. .. errr.. DON'T take Berserk Anger? ^^
Use another limit break, or make your own... but if you -know- the character isn't going to be able to deal with it.. .. don't take it.. make one that fits him better
Heard of Hercules?  Killed his wife and children in a fit of rage (cursed by Hera).  Then devastated by the atrocity he commited he seeked redemption and forgiveness through the famous 12 labors.
In another instance, he was visiting king Admet.  The King was grieving for his wife who had dies the day before but, not wanting to break the rules of hospitality he didn't say so and welcomed Hercules.  But hecules got drunk and with his famed temper made quite a scandal.  When he calmed (and sobered) down and was told by servant about his host's wife, he cried in and shame and left.  The next day he showed up with his friend's wife ; he litterally went to hell to get her back.
Sounds like high valor with temper problems balanced with high compassion to you?
Kremlin KOA
Beastly Member
the guy was valor 5Safim said:
the kind of guy who makes Ned Flanders look like an impatient, alcoholic, slut
and now he goes on a weekly binge where he consumes all the alcohol in town?
and i do mean ALL
Kremlin KOA
Beastly Member
okay first up i should have typed temperance
but on page 103 it states that you must fail a temperance check (if temperance 3+) to overindulge in food or intoxicants
this means that third beer or that extra scoop of icecream.
now, for a temperance 5 character, if alcohol is a favorite vice, you have an intreresting situation.
whenever offered a third drink, you need to make a temperence check
if you get any successes on this check (92% chance) you must decline the drink, or spend a willpower.
if you spend a willpower you gain 1 limit.
if you decline, you just declined the drink to act morally, roll temperance (page 105 for the condition, page 103 for the dice roll)
5 dice, average successes = 2.5
which means, every 10 times you accept, or 4 times you reject, on average, you will suffer limit break
remember you are temperance 5, the ideal for asceticism and self control. you out do the immaculate monks in self denial
Yet at the end of the day for a limit break you wake up with a hangover, and in a big bed with 3 women, another man, a donkey, and ***DELETED BY THE CENSORSHIP BUREAU OF AMERICA***... there are kegs of spirits beside the bed (all empty) and your anima is slowly fading from the essence burned to keep you alive through ti all (resistance charms... don't leave home without them).
now with temperance 5, how are you gonna think of your self as the guests walk away funny.
but of course that particular example would be considered totally normal
but on page 103 it states that you must fail a temperance check (if temperance 3+) to overindulge in food or intoxicants
this means that third beer or that extra scoop of icecream.
now, for a temperance 5 character, if alcohol is a favorite vice, you have an intreresting situation.
whenever offered a third drink, you need to make a temperence check
if you get any successes on this check (92% chance) you must decline the drink, or spend a willpower.
if you spend a willpower you gain 1 limit.
if you decline, you just declined the drink to act morally, roll temperance (page 105 for the condition, page 103 for the dice roll)
5 dice, average successes = 2.5
which means, every 10 times you accept, or 4 times you reject, on average, you will suffer limit break
remember you are temperance 5, the ideal for asceticism and self control. you out do the immaculate monks in self denial
Yet at the end of the day for a limit break you wake up with a hangover, and in a big bed with 3 women, another man, a donkey, and ***DELETED BY THE CENSORSHIP BUREAU OF AMERICA***... there are kegs of spirits beside the bed (all empty) and your anima is slowly fading from the essence burned to keep you alive through ti all (resistance charms... don't leave home without them).
now with temperance 5, how are you gonna think of your self as the guests walk away funny.
but of course that particular example would be considered totally normal
First of all.
Look up the word overindulgence. Drinking a few pints is surely not overindulgence, especially not if it happens over the evening. And eating a second portion of icecream is suely not overindulgence either. Overindulgence would be eating for the sake of eating as in emptying that buffet over there before the party host can even open it or drinking yourself into a fancy coma because you can't cope with having slaughtered 50 guardsmen (oh and nobody enters a coma after his third beer).
Then, look up "moral" "behaviour". I give you a hint. Passing up a drink, is not neccessarily always moral, you know, drinks are not evil per se ^^. Passing up on a night of drinking when you have an important meeting in the next morning on the other hand is moral behaviour. So, a solar will not snap after you made him pass up 10 beer, but after over a week in which he cannot spend every night drinking because he has always an important meeting in the morning.
If your example character has no duties whatsoever or only those which would not be hindered by his drinking he can get himself drunk or at least well filled every evening without ever having to gain limit.
So, now lets look back on what we have here. We have a solar with insanely high temperance who likes to drink a lot. We have established that when he passes on his favourite vice for well over a week in which he always has to work, he will snap and do a day of heavy drinking and having sex (oh, by the way, it doesn't have to be an animal, he will probably just seduce some barfly and party for a whole day. Why? Because he can get the barfly far easier into his hotelroom than some sheep or whatever you have been aiming at). Sooooo... can we reasonably deduct an ancient curse of the creators of the world from this?
I do not think so.
Look up the word overindulgence. Drinking a few pints is surely not overindulgence, especially not if it happens over the evening. And eating a second portion of icecream is suely not overindulgence either. Overindulgence would be eating for the sake of eating as in emptying that buffet over there before the party host can even open it or drinking yourself into a fancy coma because you can't cope with having slaughtered 50 guardsmen (oh and nobody enters a coma after his third beer).
Then, look up "moral" "behaviour". I give you a hint. Passing up a drink, is not neccessarily always moral, you know, drinks are not evil per se ^^. Passing up on a night of drinking when you have an important meeting in the next morning on the other hand is moral behaviour. So, a solar will not snap after you made him pass up 10 beer, but after over a week in which he cannot spend every night drinking because he has always an important meeting in the morning.
If your example character has no duties whatsoever or only those which would not be hindered by his drinking he can get himself drunk or at least well filled every evening without ever having to gain limit.
So, now lets look back on what we have here. We have a solar with insanely high temperance who likes to drink a lot. We have established that when he passes on his favourite vice for well over a week in which he always has to work, he will snap and do a day of heavy drinking and having sex (oh, by the way, it doesn't have to be an animal, he will probably just seduce some barfly and party for a whole day. Why? Because he can get the barfly far easier into his hotelroom than some sheep or whatever you have been aiming at). Sooooo... can we reasonably deduct an ancient curse of the creators of the world from this?
I do not think so.
Kremlin KOA
Beastly Member
umm
if you define overindulgence as eating the whole buffet and drinking the bar dry
exactly how do you define 'Binge of Epic Proportions?'
if you define overindulgence as eating the whole buffet and drinking the bar dry
exactly how do you define 'Binge of Epic Proportions?'
Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
ahh... I would say overindulgance would by its nature be subjective, based on the person in question. ie how many drinks so and so has...
A socialite who drinks a glass or two, because he's a social drinker isn't overindulging. If however, he goes on a drinking binging, going beyond his limits... that I would say he's overindulging.
A drink or two isn't olverindulging. Having an extra bowl of ice cream might be considered to be indulging, but I wouldn't call it overindulging. In contrast, someone whose dieting and who just won the lottery and is now enjoying his money (for the moment), and goes after ice cream after ice cream... THAT would be overindulgence.
It's subjective.
A socialite who drinks a glass or two, because he's a social drinker isn't overindulging. If however, he goes on a drinking binging, going beyond his limits... that I would say he's overindulging.
A drink or two isn't olverindulging. Having an extra bowl of ice cream might be considered to be indulging, but I wouldn't call it overindulging. In contrast, someone whose dieting and who just won the lottery and is now enjoying his money (for the moment), and goes after ice cream after ice cream... THAT would be overindulgence.
It's subjective.
The zombie cat
Member
After 3 standard drinks the average man’s coordination is noticeably impaired. A pint of reasonable ale is 2 standard drinks (undress its watery American beer). From this I conclude that a third pint within an evening would be considered over indulgence, maybe a forth pint if it is a long evening or the character has a high stamina (4 or 5)
It will be the barfly (several is available, and of both sexes for characters from most of creation, and he will use charms and or force to secure services if necessary) vast quantity’s of drink, heroin and cocaine if available in the town and a banquet worth of food. I will concede on the matter of the sheep.
Edward
Heavy drinking and a barfly doesn’t mach that description. That’s a weakly event for many characters.
It will be the barfly (several is available, and of both sexes for characters from most of creation, and he will use charms and or force to secure services if necessary) vast quantity’s of drink, heroin and cocaine if available in the town and a banquet worth of food. I will concede on the matter of the sheep.
Edward
Again... what would be so special about it. the charachter had a week of serious business where he could not cater to his vices and now lets it all out in a single day of partying. So, several ladies and a few gents in his bed, so what? How do you deduct an epic curse from that?
And I won't take the "he usually doesn't do that" bullshit, because we are speaking of a heavy drinker here already (drinking as his favourite vice and all that...).
And I won't take the "he usually doesn't do that" bullshit, because we are speaking of a heavy drinker here already (drinking as his favourite vice and all that...).
