Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
That doesn't make much sense to me. The Neverborn are the epitome of stagnation.
How to learn about the curse?
- Thread starter Charon
- Start date
The zombie cat
Member
Wile limit breaks may be cathartic, they also can be quite disturbing once you look over your actions, actions that in your normal state of mind (with your virtues active) you may not be able to condone, also limit breaks can occur at inexplicable times, say your debating the price of a gem for your crown ad the DB fool uses unnatural mental influence on you to jack up the price, you resist with willpower and gain your last point of limit, go red rage of compassion and charge of to destroy oppressors f the innocent.
If your limit is a more subtle one or doesn’t go of at strange times then you wont notice it in yourself, but you can still notice it in others.
Knowing that people don’t have this problem you can be fairly shore it is to do with exaltation, that’s not hard, working out it is a deliberate curse is harder, long life and great power have there tolls on the human mind, it is also possible that the poses of becoming an exalt is doing the damage or that for some reason exaltations are choosing damaged people.
This puts the direction of questioning directly at the god of exaltations, and if you can get an audience with him you can get the true state of affairs, then you need to fix things.
Knowledge that something is wrong with exaltations is different to knowing what is wrong and where the problem came from.
Edward
Edward
If your limit is a more subtle one or doesn’t go of at strange times then you wont notice it in yourself, but you can still notice it in others.
Knowing that people don’t have this problem you can be fairly shore it is to do with exaltation, that’s not hard, working out it is a deliberate curse is harder, long life and great power have there tolls on the human mind, it is also possible that the poses of becoming an exalt is doing the damage or that for some reason exaltations are choosing damaged people.
This puts the direction of questioning directly at the god of exaltations, and if you can get an audience with him you can get the true state of affairs, then you need to fix things.
Knowledge that something is wrong with exaltations is different to knowing what is wrong and where the problem came from.
Edward
Edward
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Knowing that Exalts are prone to fits of extreme is one thing. Assuming that this is some sort of curse is another. It might seem obvious with our out-of-game knowledge, but I don't think it would be so plain to PCs.
FluffySquirrel
Member
Yeah.. think of it this way, exalts tend to be larger than life, and prone to be emotional/outrageous in many ways.
Take hercules.. hercules went mad and killed his wife and kids..
Everyone loves hercules still.. cause he's awesome and a hero ^^
.. .. they just stay clear of him if he looks mad >.>
Besides.. he went on this whole thing of repentance with lots of epic quests.. where.. he ran around killing lots and lots of things.. .. .. .. anyway, people still like him ^^
But yeah, I'm unsure if they should just start immediately checking for curses and such.. but then, I also figure that like the sidereals, the great curse can be quite subtle, and part of it's effect is making the exalts not suspect it's a curse.
Take hercules.. hercules went mad and killed his wife and kids..
Everyone loves hercules still.. cause he's awesome and a hero ^^
.. .. they just stay clear of him if he looks mad >.>
Besides.. he went on this whole thing of repentance with lots of epic quests.. where.. he ran around killing lots and lots of things.. .. .. .. anyway, people still like him ^^
But yeah, I'm unsure if they should just start immediately checking for curses and such.. but then, I also figure that like the sidereals, the great curse can be quite subtle, and part of it's effect is making the exalts not suspect it's a curse.
What's the nonsense with exalts realising they have done something strange when they virtues work again?!
Limit breaks happen because you surpress your virtues and the limit break is one big act totally one with the one primary virtue.
When you have valor as primary virtue and foolhardy contempt as limit break then you accumulate limit because you surpress your valor. And then at one point the solar lets it all out and is bloody valorous. How should he come to the conclusion that something he should have done from the start on is wrong?
Limit breaks happen because you surpress your virtues and the limit break is one big act totally one with the one primary virtue.
When you have valor as primary virtue and foolhardy contempt as limit break then you accumulate limit because you surpress your valor. And then at one point the solar lets it all out and is bloody valorous. How should he come to the conclusion that something he should have done from the start on is wrong?
Jeppe
Member
Hah! I have it!
I found the page I was looking for in the Auto book. It turns out that what I have written in my previous post was complete non-sense, and you should disregard it entirely.
It says, (Auto, p. 17) that:
Also, in the adventoures in the back of the book, Auto has a line (p. 266) that goes:
EDIT: It says (p. 16) that any native Autochtonian with Lore ** or higher would know most or all of the background to Autochtonia, so if you like, most of the scholars in Autochtonia would know that the Exalted of Creation are crazy.
I found the page I was looking for in the Auto book. It turns out that what I have written in my previous post was complete non-sense, and you should disregard it entirely.
It says, (Auto, p. 17) that:
So there, Auto knows. Actually, the Great Curse is why he left Creation in the first place.
Also, in the adventoures in the back of the book, Auto has a line (p. 266) that goes:
On a final note, the book suggests (p. 268) that with Auto back in Creation, he can supply Lytek with the blueprints to the shards, so Lytek can eventually find a cure for both the Abyssal taint and the Great Curse.
EDIT: It says (p. 16) that any native Autochtonian with Lore ** or higher would know most or all of the background to Autochtonia, so if you like, most of the scholars in Autochtonia would know that the Exalted of Creation are crazy.
You don't have to suppress your virtue to accumulate Limit. For example, with Foolheardy Contempt you gain limit by being challenged to a one-on-one fight whether you accept that challenge or tuck tail and run. You also gain it by fighting against losing odds, which is the epitome of valor, not a suppression of it.
edit: You also accumulate limit by spending willpower to go against an unnatural compulsion, which could easily be a valorous or compassionate act, and is almost always going to resonate with Temperance.
edit: You also accumulate limit by spending willpower to go against an unnatural compulsion, which could easily be a valorous or compassionate act, and is almost always going to resonate with Temperance.
I think the Lunars have a great explanation for why a large majority of the Solars went crap-happy crazy. Â
There's a camp of Lunars who believe that as we are finite, we cannot truly understand infinity. The Celestines, being infinite, likewise cannot truly comprehend what it is to be finite. Â
Therefore, by imbuing the power of the gods -- a shard of infinity -- into the bodies of finite mortals, they may have misjudged the effects mortal minds would undergo having to deal with suddenly understanding a fraction of limitlessness.
I'd honestly think, even in the Age of Sorrows, people would be more likely to believe that the power of the gods was never meant to be handled by mortal minds. Â It's an explanation that's pat, one that makes a whole lot of sense, and likely the conclusion savants and serious researchers will arrive at before the idea of a Curse occurs to them.
There's a camp of Lunars who believe that as we are finite, we cannot truly understand infinity. The Celestines, being infinite, likewise cannot truly comprehend what it is to be finite. Â
Therefore, by imbuing the power of the gods -- a shard of infinity -- into the bodies of finite mortals, they may have misjudged the effects mortal minds would undergo having to deal with suddenly understanding a fraction of limitlessness.
I'd honestly think, even in the Age of Sorrows, people would be more likely to believe that the power of the gods was never meant to be handled by mortal minds. Â It's an explanation that's pat, one that makes a whole lot of sense, and likely the conclusion savants and serious researchers will arrive at before the idea of a Curse occurs to them.
Vanman
Two Thousand Club
My question is, how would they know to ask a demon? Do they always ask demons to questions they don't know? If they do, then maybe it's plausible. But if they don't, then what gives them the idea to ask a demon? Particularly since the demon would conceivably have the information they need?Charon said:
For me, that's the question that needs to be answered. How do they know to ask the demon?
To me - and this is just an observation based on what's been said here - this sort of sounds like out of game information filtering into the game and affecting player decisions.
Otherwise, it sounds really cool......
I read that that and see "feared they had been" and "although he did not yet understand the full ramification of The Great Curse".Jeppe said:
I missed the part where is stated "Auto is fully aware of and completely understands of The Great Curse."
Sounds to me like Auto has a hunch and perhaps a place to start, but by no means has any clue what exactly he could do to fix the problem. Â I suppose it depens on where you would like you game to go.
The Great Curse is quite a handicap, if used as it's detailed in the book then the Solar (or any of the Exalts, Dragon Bloods included) can easily become complete monsters in a matter of a few sessions. Â Acrueing 10 limit is not difficult, it's one of the handicaps that makes the game a bit of it's rocker. Â The Dragon Bloods would have slaughtered eachother outright by now if NPC actually tallied Limit, but they don't. Â For the most part only the PCs have to worry about it and once your Dawn Caste begins killing everyone in their path including his friends, mother, and children, the game begins to take an odd twist and usually isn't much fun after that.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
People do generalise the Curse a bit. Only one or two of the Limit Breaks involve rage and bloodbaths. Whatever happened to Heart of Tears?
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
"That Solar over there? He's emo."
Ledaal Kajiri
Two Thousand Club
Indeed. Hells, my high Valor fellow with Foolhardy Contempt...well, sure we've noticed that he's insanely brave...but well, so is anyone else with his level of Valor. Doesn't back down from a fight? Well, yeah. The only difference is in degree. Often you should choose a limit break that resonates with your character's personality. Berserk Anger is for the fellow who is already tempermental...like Hercules.
On the other hand, my fellow with Red Rage of Compassion, people get the idea he gets pissy if people are harmed. Again, high Compassion and a good Valor...limited Temperance...and its a difference in degree.
Its quite easy for limit breaks to either a) seem like a more extreme example of normal behavior for the character, b) be uncommon (How often do you suppress your primary virtue? How common is unnatural mental influence? If you suppress often, perhaps you have the wrong primary virtue...seeing as you commonly act against it. Unnatrual mental influence isn't something you're likely to see every day...even as a Social Fu type.)
Now for Dragonblooded, who don't get a choice in their limit break outside of their primary virtue and element, this can be a bit more obvious...but not often so. Usually the limit breaks are directly related to the virtue in question. So the Compassionate Water aspect gets a bit smothering at times...so do plenty of other compassionate people.
Now some limit breaks tend to occur commonly. Foolhardy Contempt in a game with a fair bit of combat for example. The same are usually the least extreme of the breaks.
Now if you want the Great Curse to be discovered, perhaps frequent situations that force limit should show up so people will actually notice just how extreme they can be...but even so, rationalization isn't that hard for many...particullarly when it just felt so refreshing. Finding out that Anathema go batshit? Well, that's pretty much common knowledge. Does that mean there is a horrible curse on them? Or does that mean that there is something wrong with them that's simply part of what they are? Perhaps the powers of the Incarna are simply too strong for a mortal to handle and remain sane. Perhaps, as the Lunars believe, they simply embody the will of the Incarna in some fashion. Perhaps the Dragons touch those of their line a bit...wait, yes, yes they do. That who bursting into flame or some such is a pretty good clue.
Even if you do notice the curse, generally it should take a bit to realize that's what it is. Somehow it's remained a secret for millenia...it's unlikely you'll just figure it out easilly...and finding a cure should be something impressive and epic...not just "I cast a spell."
On the other hand, my fellow with Red Rage of Compassion, people get the idea he gets pissy if people are harmed. Again, high Compassion and a good Valor...limited Temperance...and its a difference in degree.
Its quite easy for limit breaks to either a) seem like a more extreme example of normal behavior for the character, b) be uncommon (How often do you suppress your primary virtue? How common is unnatural mental influence? If you suppress often, perhaps you have the wrong primary virtue...seeing as you commonly act against it. Unnatrual mental influence isn't something you're likely to see every day...even as a Social Fu type.)
Now for Dragonblooded, who don't get a choice in their limit break outside of their primary virtue and element, this can be a bit more obvious...but not often so. Usually the limit breaks are directly related to the virtue in question. So the Compassionate Water aspect gets a bit smothering at times...so do plenty of other compassionate people.
Now some limit breaks tend to occur commonly. Foolhardy Contempt in a game with a fair bit of combat for example. The same are usually the least extreme of the breaks.
Now if you want the Great Curse to be discovered, perhaps frequent situations that force limit should show up so people will actually notice just how extreme they can be...but even so, rationalization isn't that hard for many...particullarly when it just felt so refreshing. Finding out that Anathema go batshit? Well, that's pretty much common knowledge. Does that mean there is a horrible curse on them? Or does that mean that there is something wrong with them that's simply part of what they are? Perhaps the powers of the Incarna are simply too strong for a mortal to handle and remain sane. Perhaps, as the Lunars believe, they simply embody the will of the Incarna in some fashion. Perhaps the Dragons touch those of their line a bit...wait, yes, yes they do. That who bursting into flame or some such is a pretty good clue.
Even if you do notice the curse, generally it should take a bit to realize that's what it is. Somehow it's remained a secret for millenia...it's unlikely you'll just figure it out easilly...and finding a cure should be something impressive and epic...not just "I cast a spell."
Flyck
Senior Member
Actually, I always liked the idea to that one. Â Give a Night or Zenith huge amounts of Compassion and Valor. Â Give them that curse. Â Play the character like a true paragon of good, always trying to help the needy, with the valor to have him stand his ground against any opposition... Â Yet the minute his limit breaks, he collapses on the ground in a crying wreck...Jukashi said:
The problem arises when the Great Curse tears apart a character. Â Example: Compassion.
Walk down any poor district in any city and bam, the character is making Compassion rolls almost every block he walks. Â Eventually (and most likely) that character is going to snap in about 6 blocks of walking.
Negotiating while slaves are around? Â No way. Â Again every few seconds the character is getting another limit point, and Red Rage of Compassion in my opinion is worse that a few of the others.
Mostly as far as the game goes we play 'Great Curse Light' and only make the Virtue rolls when dramatically appropriate instead of at random when their may be some chance the character is challenged to and arm wrestling contest, or some kid's pet dog is sick and he needs 15 Talents to pay for the operation. Â It saves time and cut down on the Solars killing each other or going Emo for days at a time while we're trying to save Creation from that oozing, zombie-like, almost ate that ship in a single gulp, sea creature thingie over there.
(To elaborate we had a character slip into Ascetic Drive and decide to sacrifice all her worldly possessions, Ori-Articulated Plate a Diaklave of Conquest, and a slew of other artifacts, by casting them overboard while we were in the middle of a hunt for some zombie sea monster terrorizing local fisherman and trade.)
Sometimes it just sucked to hit limit to the point where we didn't care to amass power (political, material, or whatever) since we knew the moment we hit limit (and we knew we would again eventually) we would just screw up several sessions’ worth of work.  I know I'd be pissed if I played FF for a few hours, had someone erase my game, then I had to start all over... eventually I'd forget playing the game.
Walk down any poor district in any city and bam, the character is making Compassion rolls almost every block he walks. Â Eventually (and most likely) that character is going to snap in about 6 blocks of walking.
Negotiating while slaves are around? Â No way. Â Again every few seconds the character is getting another limit point, and Red Rage of Compassion in my opinion is worse that a few of the others.
Mostly as far as the game goes we play 'Great Curse Light' and only make the Virtue rolls when dramatically appropriate instead of at random when their may be some chance the character is challenged to and arm wrestling contest, or some kid's pet dog is sick and he needs 15 Talents to pay for the operation. Â It saves time and cut down on the Solars killing each other or going Emo for days at a time while we're trying to save Creation from that oozing, zombie-like, almost ate that ship in a single gulp, sea creature thingie over there.
(To elaborate we had a character slip into Ascetic Drive and decide to sacrifice all her worldly possessions, Ori-Articulated Plate a Diaklave of Conquest, and a slew of other artifacts, by casting them overboard while we were in the middle of a hunt for some zombie sea monster terrorizing local fisherman and trade.)
Sometimes it just sucked to hit limit to the point where we didn't care to amass power (political, material, or whatever) since we knew the moment we hit limit (and we knew we would again eventually) we would just screw up several sessions’ worth of work.  I know I'd be pissed if I played FF for a few hours, had someone erase my game, then I had to start all over... eventually I'd forget playing the game.
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
Indeed. Bad though it may be for the character, the great curse is, like everything else, supposed to make the game more fun for the players. It should be used to make the game more interesting, rather than to punish those who load up on Virtues.
Imagine how Kejak will React, if he finds decisive proof his actions have been influenced by the malfeans curse for ages
probaly laugh and laugh
and laugh
and laugh
and laugh and laugh anad laugh, then go berserk kill everyone in the same room, then declare all out war on the deathlords... wanting them destroyed utterly...
probaly laugh and laugh
and laugh
and laugh
and laugh and laugh anad laugh, then go berserk kill everyone in the same room, then declare all out war on the deathlords... wanting them destroyed utterly...
Jukashi
Four Thousand Club
Naw. Che's too forward-thinking for that. "Great Curse? That explains it. Well, forget the past, it's the future that matters. I'm sure that now I'm aware of it, I can resist its effects..."
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
Someone needs to make a Che poster for Kejak.
Flyck
Senior Member
Dracian, note that the each limit break has different triggers. Â Just because yours is Compassion based, doesn't mean that you'll flip out just from walking down a street. Â It all depends upon the triggers of your limit. Â Red Rage of Compassion, for example, probably wouldn't be triggered by walking down the slums of Nexus. Â Unless of course, you stumbled upon some Guild members beating and abusing some Djala slaves... Â THEN, it most certainly would trigger...
Dracian, the Night Caste I played (and still do from time to time) had Red Rage of Compassion and his motivation was "Abolishing slave trading." Â Needless to say that after reading Manacle and Coin it was incredibly hard to justify that could tolerate most slavery in the Threshold.Safim said:
He was cool with 'servants', people who were well treated and for the most part were slaves but were content in their roles. Â But seeing a Guild caravan loaded up with people who were fair game for anyone with Jade/Silver, including the Raksha, it usually set him off pretty quick. Â Piling people in a cage and rolling them around Creation and selling them as sex toys, dream candy, and pretty much anything else the buyer chose was certainly not easy for a Compassion 5 Night Caste to tolerate. Â
Flyck
Senior Member
Actually, that's a very good concept. Â I like it. Â Of course, if you REALLY want to let your limit go overboard... you jump the caravan, release the slaves, load the guild members into the cages, and then toss the wagons into a Raksha's domain with a sign that says 'Free Lunch!'. Â That'll learn 'em!
