Fandom Fate/Bad Joke OOC

[Mion]

Xel BearBearBear
High-Speed Divine Words (高速神言 ,Kousoku Shingon?) is the power to activate thaumaturgy without the use of Magic Circuits. The language of the Age of Gods, back when words played a heavy role in spellcasting. To a user of Divine Words, actualization of mysteries is not done through a process, but more through a direct order. A power long lost by modern magi.
Due to her use of Divine Words, Caster’s spells do not work the same way that of those of modern Magecraft. For one, she can cast even High Thaumaturgy-level spells with the speed equivalent of Single-Action ones. Furthermore, while the majority of her spells fall under the One-Line category, their power-level is easily on par with Five-Line ones. Finally, due to the different dynamics, only a Servant with Magic Resistance ranked A or above is immune to her spells."

From the info on the Wikia, Bear's approach seems to be the more valid one.

I mean what Bear was saying seemed to be literally what the wiki was lol. I don't see why a one line spell using divine words wouldn't affect someone because it is one line. That doesn't really make any sense imo as the whole point of it is that it is on the same level of five lines, I mean what is the point in having it if it has no affect?

 

[Mion]

Basically its a superior casting method in both its efficiency and effectiveness. It is kind of weird if that didn't have an affect and the inferior five lines did.

 

[Xel]

I mean what Bear was saying seemed to be literally what the wiki was lol. I don't see why a one line spell using divine words wouldn't affect someone because it is one line. That doesn't really make any sense imo as the whole point of it is that it is on the same level of five lines, I mean what is the point in having it if it has no affect?

Same reason a world-ending C-rank NP does literally nothing to Hercules. The power isn't relevant. If magic resistance just outright cancels any spell less than three verses, it doesn't matter how powerful the spell is, it still gets cancelled all the same.

Fate is FULL of conceptual-based abilities. Abilities where the actual power is less important than the activation method/rank/whatever.

 

[BearBearBear]

It's already settled though and we're both taking steps to get the story straight. I've accepted that Saber didn't get hurt and whatever problems we'll be having with mechanics can easily be changed with the interpretation of the spell. Like instead of a spell aimed at Saber, it could be a spell that buffed Lexa enough to throw sunbeams or something

Same reason a world-ending C-rank NP does literally nothing to Hercules. The power isn't relevant. If magic resistance just outright cancels any spell less than three verses, it doesn't matter how powerful the spell is, it still gets cancelled all the same.

Fate is FULL of conceptual-based abilities. Abilities where the actual power is less important than the activation method/rank/whatever.

Curious, what world ending NP was that? Or is this a thought exercise?

 

[Xel]

It's already settled though and we're both taking steps to get the story straight. I've accepted that Saber didn't get hurt and whatever problems we'll be having with mechanics can easily be changed with the interpretation of the spell. Like instead of a spell aimed at Saber, it could be a spell that buffed Lexa enough to throw sunbeams or something


Curious, what world ending NP was that? Or is this a thought exercise?

It's neither. It's just explicitly stated in God Hand. It works on the conceptual level, so only attacks of B rank or higher can do any damage. So even if you had an all-powerful world-destroying NP, if it's rank is C it'd do literally zero damage to Hercules. Because, like the magic resistance, it states that "anything below rank B doesn't work", same way magic resistance said "anything below three verses doesn't work"

 

[Mion]

Same reason a world-ending C-rank NP does literally nothing to Hercules. The power isn't relevant. If magic resistance just outright cancels any spell less than three verses, it doesn't matter how powerful the spell is, it still gets cancelled all the same.

Fate is FULL of conceptual-based abilities. Abilities where the actual power is less important than the activation method/rank/whatever.

I mean that is Hercs God Hand which repels all attacks B rank and lower. Why would that repel divine words?

 

[Mion]

Yeah but it is three standard verses

 

[Mion]

The words are just a process to cast the spell, the more lines the more powerful the spell.

Divine Words is used to bypass the process, it seems pretty stupid to hold Divine Words to the same standards when it is literally bypassing the lines.

 

[Xel]

I mean that is Hercs God Hand which repels all attacks B rank and lower. Why would that repel divine words?

Yeah but it is three standard verses

That's the point, it isn't. She's using a short-cut to bypass the verse limit. So it's less than three verses. It has the power of a five-verse spell, but it isn't ACTUALLY a five-verse spell since she's using divine words. So just as God Hand negates attacks below B rank, regardless of their power. So too does magic resistance negate anything under three verses regardless of power. That's how I interpret it. Since it doesn't have any sort of "cancels spells below three verses except when user is using divine words" lol.

 

[Mion]

That's the point, it isn't. She's using a short-cut to bypass the verse limit. So it's less than three verses. It has the power of a five-verse spell, but it isn't ACTUALLY a five-verse spell since she's using divine words. So just as God Hand negates attacks below B rank, regardless of their power. So too does magic resistance negate anything under three verses regardless of power. That's how I interpret it. Since it doesn't have any sort of "cancels spells below three verses except when user is using divine words" lol.

What is Sabers magic resistance? If it is A then we can forget about this lol.

 

[Mion]

" Finally, due to the different dynamics, only a Servant with Magic Resistance ranked A or above is immune to her spells. "

Just asking because it literally touches on this, saying that one line Divine Words requires Magic Resistance A to negate.

 

[Xel]

What is Sabers magic resistance? If it is A then we can forget about this lol.

B, hence why master's CAN effect her, it just requires spells of greater than three verses.

" Finally, due to the different dynamics, only a Servant with Magic Resistance ranked A or above is immune to her spells. "

Just asking because it literally touches on this, saying that one line Divine Words requires Magic Resistance A to negate.

That was for Caster using age of the gods magic. We're talking about a master using master-tier magic and simply quickcasting it. It wasn't the divine words that made her magic so powerful, it was the magic itself.

 

[Mion]

B, hence why master's CAN effect her, it just requires spells of greater than three verses.



That was for Caster using age of the gods magic. We're talking about a master using master-tier magic and simply quickcasting it. It wasn't the divine words that made her magic so powerful, it was the magic itself.

Her spells worked differently DUE to the divine words she was using.

 

[Azure Sky]

This argument is like the circle line train in London

 

[Mion]

Basically if Caster wasn't using Divine words then she would have had to cast her powerful spells in the same manner as everyone else, meaning that Rin could have prob defeated Caster if she had used her gems in the same way lol. Divine Words is a superior casting method and bypasses the rules of magic resistance, of course unless it is Magic Resistance A, then the servant is even resistant to divine words.

 

[Mion]

This argument is like the circle line train in London

I mean it's not really an argument. I just saw a decision that I disagreed with so added my opinion into it. I don't really mind too much though.

 

[Azure Sky]

"Argument" is a bit strong indeed. But it is still a debate.

 

[Xel]

Basically if Caster wasn't using Divine words then she would have had to cast her powerful spells in the same manner as everyone else, meaning that Rin could have prob defeated Caster if she had used her gems in the same way lol. Divine Words is a superior casting method and bypasses the rules of magic resistance, of course unless it is Magic Resistance A, then the servant is even resistant to divine words.

It bypasses the rules of casting spells. Nowhere, anywhere, does it say it bypasses the rules of magic resistance. You're conflating divine words for the spells Medea was using said words to cast. It was the spells themselves that required A rank magic resistance because she was using age of gods magic.

Again, to reiterate, you're conflating the method of casting with the spell ACTUALLY being cast. The ability to quickcast does not magically make every spell you quickcast a lvl 20 fireball.

 

[Mion]

It bypasses the rules of casting spells. Nowhere, anywhere, does it say it bypasses the rules of magic resistance. You're conflating divine words for the spells Medea was using said words to cast. It was the spells themselves that required A rank magic resistance because she was using age of gods magic.

Again, to reiterate, you're conflating the method of casting with the spell ACTUALLY being cast. The ability to quickcast does not magically make every spell you quickcast a lvl 20 fireball.

Sorry but i'm not. It says very clearly that due to the different mechanics of the divine words that it takes Magic Resistance A to nullify. Sure weaker spells will have less of an impact but they will work.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

If Caster has a divine attribute, does that make his Words divine?

It bypasses the rules of casting spells. Nowhere, anywhere, does it say it bypasses the rules of magic resistance. You're conflating divine words for the spells Medea was using said words to cast. It was the spells themselves that required A rank magic resistance because she was using age of gods magic.

Again, to reiterate, you're conflating the method of casting with the spell ACTUALLY being cast. The ability to quickcast does not magically make every spell you quickcast a lvl 20 fireball.

Bear's character supposedly actually knows spells from the age of Gods. Essentially, Alexandria was using Medea's magic against Saber.

 

[Mion]

If Caster has a divine attribute, does that make his Words divine?



Bear's character supposedly actually knows spells from the age of Gods. Essentially, Alexandria was using Medea's magic against Saber.

Divine words is a spellcasting method from the Age of Gods, so no Caster likely wouldn't unless they were from the age of gods or something in their legend would make sense for them to have it.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Divine words is a spellcasting method from the Age of Gods, so no Caster likely wouldn't unless they were from the age of gods or something in their legend would make sense for them to have it.

Haha, I figured. My Servant didn't have much of a backstory, so I made some stuff up. He learned magic in a way that's a bit unique compared to most people

 

[ChazGhost]

Good afternoon/morning people.

 

[ChazGhost]

I've lost track a little bit of what's happening. Can some one fill me in on what's happening in the London tombs?

 

[Mion]

I've lost track a little bit of what's happening. Can some one fill me in on what's happening in the London tombs?

I second this, I think I have like 3+ pages to catch up on lol