[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

JayTee said:
Cyl, if you're talking about Dragon Kings reincarnating, then it's a moot issue because no matter how hard they try, they'll never be a real threat to us.
If you're talking about other Exalts, I might be inclined to agree with you if their reincarnations worked like the Dragon Kings. But they don't, each newly incarnated Celestial Exalt is effectively a blank slate.


So, convert them to our cause if we can, kill them if we can't and try again on their next incarnation.
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I was obviously talking about exalts.


And I'm not 100% sure that second generation abies are blank slates. Mirror isn't for example and I don't think I have read about a dark version of Lytek.
 
They more or less are blank slates. Past lives are dreamlike memories, providing hints and clues at best.


There isn't anything like a Dark Lytek, except if you were to include the Deathlords who handle Abyssal Exaltations.
 
Well the sidereals seized the essences from Lytek's cabinet and probably after he washed most them clean.


And even if the DL had the power to make them blank again, I'm not sure they would use it except on particularly uncooperative or unmanageable knights... they'd lose all that nice and warm hatred and lust for carnage.
 
Past Lives really only offer a benefit if you buy the past lives background, other than that, they're plothooks and justifications for learning new things.
 
Cyl, it seems like every time, by the time we finally decide to do something, a new wrinkle has appeared and then you want to debate the merits of the plan all over again. This is really frustrating. I don't want to rehash the same arguments over and over again.


Flicker really has the best shot of bringing a serious and merit-worthy challenge to the DKs, due to her totem forms and her extensive training by the other DK community. It's the best way to avoid an all-out war. Please let her do this.
 
Then let's not rehash, Kacie. I disagree with your conclusions and I see important risks in keeping our current course, you disagree with mine and don't see anything wrong like I do... but both of us entrusted Arynne with that responsibility.


All we can do is advise. She'll make her call and we'll follow it regardless of whether we like it or not.


I know you've been aching to get this over with and I'm sorry if the prospect of alterations and delays frustrates you.


But overconfidence and not checking my corners nearly cost me my PC recently so you'll understand I'm not keen on assuming things will go down as planned.


I know Xarvh too well by now (ye brilliant bastard ! > :) )
 
Okay. I'm good with Arynne making the call.


Thanks, I'm glad to cut to the chase. I admit to being antsy since I'm not in the game until this gets resolved IC.
 
@Kacie: yeah, I dislike to keep you all on hold, but it seems like this is important.


@Arynne it seems like the game rests upon your shoulders.


@cyl i understand the paranoia, but maybe you are overthinking it.


Our minds are different and for this alone you will never be able to anticipate everything.
 
@Kacie : You make it almost sound like Ankss is somehow blocking your progression and your involvement in the story. There is plenty of stuff to take care of while Arynne makes up her mind.


@Arynne : no pressure :D


@xarvh : I'm not being paranoid (Malek that is a different story), but I can take a hint when I see one.


The appearance of the Celebrant makes the story around Ankss slightly more interesting and complex than it previously was, and yeah you're right, this was unexpected (although I knew it wasn't going to be that simple). I may have gone too far in the projection of bad consequences, but I don't find that line of thought to be completely irrational: we have no certainty that the DK will respect their traditions, or that TW will appreciate a Deathknight claiming Ankss.


So far we haven't exactly talked about what's next for Ankss once we get it.


Is it going to be part of Cross ? Will it be Mirror's exclusive domain ? Those questions did not matter previously because we thought Ankss was remote and isolated.


We've just learned that it is not and we don't even know if they have other allies but apparently it's not worth looking into.


As a player I know from experience that if we mess up or overlook something, you'll make something up to make us understand that it was a failure without making it feel like a punishment most of the time adding more interesting stuff to the story. I simply don't want to mess this thing up and make the most of this for Cross. I'm not guided by fear, but by ambition. :)


As a character: in the past two years Malek lost his hometown, three of his friends were killed (Callen - Berek - River), Cross lost the Notes and was invaded, Big K was struck, Lookshy fell and he was captured and tortured. Honestly I don't really see how he could have a carefree and relaxed attitude ever again other than it being a social facade to make it look like he's okay.
 
IC, in Mirror's mind, Ankss is the next thing that must be taken care off. There is no other short-term project that can be completed by Mirror before Ankss, and Ankss is too important to try and start something "after" it.


OOC - Ankss holds a level 5 Manse. Siham *needs* that to progress. That's the main reason I'm pushing this so hard. Mirror and Siham have established some mutual respect in their last scene together, and likely Ankss needs massive repairs before it can function. Mirror will look to Fangs and Siham to get it back on line, and at that point, Siham has greater need and can make much better use of it than Mirror can; she'll tell him to get with the Mad Science already, and gift him the Heartstone for the immediate future.


Which means that *finally*, the Cross will have some honest to goodness force projection that is actual not theoretical, and won't depend solely on the Exalts. It's a game-changer, in military terms, and it's way overdue. Those DKs have been sitting and twiddling their xenophobic luddite thumbs letting the rest of Creation go to shit. It's time to seize those assets and actually put them to use.
 
cyl said:
@Kacie : You make it almost sound like Ankss is somehow blocking your progression and your involvement in the story. There is plenty of stuff to take care of while Arynne makes up her mind.
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Given how Ankss has been set up, and how long Kacie (and I for that matter) have been stating that this is a primary objective, and the only one that isn't massively long term, I don't think its unfair to say it's tangling up her progression.


For that matter, sorting this out in a way that isn't "Fangs and Mirror indulge in a bit of bloodletting" is a compromise toward the Circle as a whole. To have said compromise then manifest in a series of explanations about how this really isn't all that important, and we should shrink back to the Cross and ponder for longer is...understandably frustrating.

I'm not being paranoid (Malek that is a different story), but I can take a hint when I see one.
The appearance of the Celebrant makes the story around Ankss slightly more interesting and complex than it previously was, and yeah you're right, this was unexpected (although I knew it wasn't going to be that simple). I may have gone too far in the projection of bad consequences, but I don't find that line of thought to be completely irrational: we have no certainty that the DK will respect their traditions, or that TW will appreciate a Deathknight claiming Ankss.
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The situation will always be more complex than it's been spitballed in OOC.


Always.

So far we haven't exactly talked about what's next for Ankss once we get it.
Is it going to be part of Cross ? Will it be Mirror's exclusive domain ? Those questions did not matter previously because we thought Ankss was remote and isolated.


We've just learned that it is not and we don't even know if they have other allies but apparently it's not worth looking into.
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In fairness, Fangs had a suggestion for what happened to Ankss long ago. That you all don't like her version of regime change is not her fault ;)
 
For that matter, sorting this out in a way that isn't "Fangs and Mirror indulge in a bit of bloodletting" is a compromise toward the Circle as a whole. To have said compromise then manifest in a series of explanations about how this really isn't all that important, and we should shrink back to the Cross and ponder for longer is...understandably frustrating.
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I never said taking Ankss is not important or that we should return to Cross.
The next move I was about to suggest if Flicker approved the strategy was contacting the Celebrant (who is already on site) explaining things, rekindling the flame and inviting them to be present during the duel.


Now Two Worlds is involved, how we win Ankss is almost if not more important that we claim it IMHO... and we still don't know if they have other allies that could rally and strike Cross, Mirunda or Ankss because we never came back or spied on them.


If you are ready to take that chance, I am not.


But it is not in our hands anyway.
 
@Arynne : any leads on stuff that could help the Elder accept the terms of the duel.


The stakes will be high for him, so maybe we'll have to come up with something significant on our end.


Unless of course I use Know the Soul's Price on him (it's on my list).
 
Well, returning the eggs would probably be on his list of demands...the hatched chicks too, unless he thinks they've been fatally contaminated by living with humans.


Beyond that, it's hard to know -- the youngster who escorted us seemed to think Ankss was perfect and needed nothing from outsiders, but Zeesalth strikes me as more intelligent than that, if only because he's willing to meet with the Autochthonians.
 
We could throw in an Eclipse oath of non aggression from Cross (a technicality that Mirror & Fangs could use) for a 500 years long period to sweeten the deal.
 
Can I ask why we don't use "Or I let my friend do it her way. My demon summoning friend whose mate you beheaded."?


You're giving them their lives. They should be most grateful.
 
CrazyIvan said:
You're giving them their lives. They should be most grateful.
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"You should be grateful I don't kill you" seldom actually takes place. Largely because people rarely feel they deserve to be killed.
 
Arynne said:
"You should be grateful I don't kill you" seldom actually takes place. Largely because people rarely feel they deserve to be killed.
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Yes, but people are often extremely appreciative you put your angry rotweiller on a leash, because they rarely feel they deserve to be mauled.


I'm just saying, rather than giving stuff away, it may be useful to remind them that there is an Option B, and that option is not "We say pretty please with a cherry on top."


Just offering a counter-proposal to the Crosses usual "Let us give you a whole bunch of stuff..." school of diplomacy.
 
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There's always option C: I kill him in his sleep, get rid of the body, impersonate him for a while, reform the DK society through charms and we stage a smooth takeover, the eggs are returned by Rhapsody, and the old guy / Malek goes into exlie because the Sun God asked him to in a vision.


In game terms I think it could be done quickly, a montage and there you go. Nice & quiet.
 
It's fine to inform them of the situation of what happens if they don't wish to do the ritual. If they refuse, you can wash your hands of the mess and walk away. The Cross is done with them, and is leaving. State that Fangs and Mirror do not represent the Cross, you do not condone their actions, and so forth. If Ankss wants to go to war with two Exalted, that's their problem.


This point will be better made with Fangs and Mirror in the room.


After all, if the Dragon Kings do remember past lives perfectly, then they will understand the concept that Mirror wants her stuff back and views them as squatters. They won't think she's earned the right to have it back - and will argue it doesn't apply to her - but they'll get the point.


The eggs & hatchlings should be a very good bargaining chip for the Cross to give up if the Cross's representative loses, though. It's a decent balance - they gamble their home for their future.
 
cyl said:
There's always option C: I kill him in his sleep, get rid of the body, impersonate him for a while, reform the DK society through charms and we stage a smooth takeover, the eggs are returned by Rhapsody, and the old guy / Malek goes into exlie because the Sun God asked him to in a vision.
In game terms I think it could be done quickly, a montage and there you go. Nice & quiet.
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I'd prefer, at the very least, you kill him in his sleep and his chambers are found empty save for a staggering amount of blood.


Killing an Exalt is not something Ankss gets to write off as a "big misunderstanding".


I will note that if you don't take a sufficiently bloody path (for which I will not blame you), you're going to have a really hard sell to convince Fangs to commit any resources when you eventually go after Tirana, because as far as I'm aware, the entire justification for viewing her as a baddie is based on a dead NPC Solar and a dog.


I say a hard sell, rather than an impossible one, because Fangs rather likes dogs.


This isn't a threat as much as I'm having a really hard time coming up with a way Fangs wouldn't view that as "Revenge for me, but not for thee."
 
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