[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[Kacie]

@cyl -- tossing out an idea for Malek's development. Would you like to try and steal back Malek's artifacts? Or steal the Ring of Non? If that sounds fun, see what sort of charms you'd need to pull off a heist. Inf Mastery in Stealth, Larceny, and then the Larceny yoink set of charms, plus some way to de-attune artifacts off the other guy, so you can use the yoink charms.


Alternatively, if Malek is still at Essence 3, then spending 24xp to get to Essence 4 is highly worthwhile. Unlocks high end charms, 10 more motes, and helps a slew of defenses. There are a lot of enemy charms that are worse if the victim is of lower essence than the charm user - for example, the limb-lopping charm that Abyssals have.

 

[JayTee]

I am pretty sure that they were not below essence 5, considering the stats of 3rd circle demons.

No Exalt during the primordial war was above essence 5. At all. Only during the first age did Exalts manage to live long enough to get higher than essence 5.

If solars with essence 5 solars could do anything, then how come most essence 8+ solars got their asses served so bad by a bunch of puny DB and a few siddies ?

Lots of reasons. 1, it was a surprise attack. 2, most of the Solars thought their rival Solars were behind the attack, so there was infighting. 3, Not every Solar during the hight of the First Age was specced to hell and back for combat, some probably didn't even have combat charms. 4, you're drastically underestimating what DBs and Sidereals can do when there are thousands of the former and dozens of the latter all targeting a group of 300. 5, because the designers of the game didn't think the mechanical implications of 6+ Charms/Abilities/Attributes through. They're fixing this for 3E by making it so that 100% of all the effects an Exalt would want or need are within the 1-5 range.

And when you mention "and their armies" you are talking lunars mates, crazy kung fu siddies, and thousands of DB.

Obviously. But we're not dealing with Primordials anymore, we're dealing with what amounts to a glorified ghost. Not on the same caliber at all, and doesn't need the same response. A full Circle of Solars could do it alone, Delta-Force Style, or a legion of Dragon Blooded.

The Exalts did not, "among other things", kill the Primordials.


The Exalts were created for the sole and only purpose of killing the Primordials.


The Exalts are a weapon, a very specific and incredibly powerful weapon, a weapon that to fulfil its purpose must be able to do many things, but a weapon nonetheless, and with one and only one purpose.


The Unconquered Sun himself (or Lytek) couldn't have struck Big K the way an Exalt did.

This is all wrong. All of it. The Exalts were not built exclusively to kill the primordials. They were built to conquer creation and all the worlds beyond (Dawns, fighty-Exalts), to engineer marvels (Twilights, thinky-exalts), to inspire and bind the hearts and minds (Zeniths, Eclipses, talky-Exalts) or to scourge the realities of dissidents (Nights, sneaky-exalts). There is nothing and no one beyond the power of a committed Exalt. Solars just have it easier, being the strongest among them.

 

[JayTee]

As mentioned, we don't have the cost of what something like the Mantle would be, and Mnemon only has the Emerald Thurible, which just makes her the stupidest fucking sorceress in all Creation.


Beyond that, artifacts can be taken away. They can be destroyed. They are not intrinsically part of a character. Cunning Fangs is trying to re-write herself. She just needs someone with superuser privileges to help.

Fair point. Siham would be willing and able to help, even if it meant learning Sorcery in Fangs' stead.

 

[cyl]

@Kacie yeah I am currently looking for ways to beat the crap out the void heart and leave the coup de grace for Siham.


So far I saw one high end larceny that allows you to steal items even in active use, even artifacts weapons, and another dodge charms that lets you teleport right on your enemy's neck (max range 100miles at essence 5).


Boosting essence seems appropriate, but it normally requires a few months to get there.


@Arynne : where do you want to raise the clan ?


Should we bring mortals to your Dk pals. I must say the Swamp people being able to see through fog or smoke presents an incredible opportunity for ninja awesomeness.

 

[xarvh]

@JayTee: nope.


The Gods couldn't care less about expanding Creation.


They wanted the Games of Divinity, and made something to get them. Auto was sick of being bullied.


All of them wanted just to have the Primordials out of the way and cared little about the rest.


And all Five Castes were necessary and instrumental in taking them down.


http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Primordial_War

 

[JayTee]

Yes, because a public wiki that anyone can edit is a more reliable source than, say, the books themselves:

Spoiler

THE EXALTED


The Exalted have been chosen by the great powers of Creation, from the Elemental Dragons to the Deathlords, and given power like that of the gods themselves. A shard of imperishable might has been set within their souls, allowing them to master their internal Essence and empowering them to slay monsters, lead armies, work puissant sorceries and perform other deeds appropriate to the brightest of heroes. Once, the Solar Exalted ruled the world, but they were cursed and fell and were slain, leaving the Terrestrial Exalted—commonly called the Dragon-Blooded—to become rulers in their place






Solars: The Solar Exalted are the Chosen of the Unconquered Sun, created to be the rulers of the world and the leaders of the other Exalted. Solar Exalted come in one of five castes. The Dawn Castes are unparalleled warriors, the Zenith Castes are priests and mystics, the Twilight Castes are savants and sorcerers, the Night Castes are spies and assassins, and the Eclipse Castes are diplomats and ambassadors.






According to Sidereal lore, the rebellious Incarnae planned for the aftermath of their victory. They knew their duties would become more onerous when they re-placed the Primordials as masters of Creation, and so, the Incarnae made sure that their Exalted could lift some of their patrons’ divine burdens. Thus, the Unconquered Sun gave his Chosen not simply strength and tactical cunning, but also the commanding majesty to rule Creation. Luna invested her Exalted not simply with shapeshifting and a love of battle, but with also the desire to defend Creation from the twisted Wyld, that they might patrol the strange places of the world.


Or, to paraphrase what you said Over here "pigeon-holing Exalts into a single thing makes for incredibly shitty stories."

 

[xarvh]

Fair for the books, but you quote me talking about their dramatic role, not about the reasons for their creation.

 

[JayTee]

So was I. The narrative role of all the exalted, not just the Solars, is "Heroic demi-gods who can do anything they put their minds to."

 

[xarvh]

Pray an Abyssal doesn't set his mind to destroy Creation.


Oh, wait...

 

[JayTee]

As fitting their other narrative role :tongue:


Good thing the other narrative role of the "default" exalts is "rule over and protect Creation"

 

[xarvh]

JayTee, can an Abyssal be stopped from destroying Creation?

 

[JayTee]

Depends on the PCs. In our game, all of the PCs are pro-creation (EDIT: Or at least ambivalent about it), so the answer is "absolutely".


In another game, with anti-Creation PCs, the answer would be "absolutely not".

 

[xarvh]

So your point is that PLAYERS Solary can do everything, while the same does not hold for NPCs.


This is an important detail.

 

[JayTee]

I thought it was obvious, one of the primary premises of Exalted is that the PCs are the most important and influential people in the setting. If a PC sets a goal, then he or she, regardless of Exalt type, should be able to accomplish it.

 

[xarvh]

If a PC sets a goal, then he or she, regardless of Exalt type, should be able to accomplish it.

Yup. But it ain't going to be any easy AND you have to show some worth drama for it. ;-)

 

[JayTee]

Not arguing that, but it should always be viewed as within reach. PC Exalts have no limits to what they can do.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Not arguing that, but it should always be viewed as within reach. PC Exalts have no limits to what they can do.

Which is why they make such superlative villains.

 

[cyl]

@JayTee : There is no limit to what 300 solars + 300 lunars + 100 sidereals + god knows how many other types of exalts, other powerful species and thousands of DB could do.


Sure.


Now, a single exalt with essence 5 can't do as well on his own.


I mean he can leave a serious trace of his passage... but he's not beyond getting his ass kicked if he behaves like he owns the place.


I do feel that way in Xarvh's Creation.


There are other beings of great(er) power around us, and it doesn't feel like we can do whatever we want.


Plus, as far as I can remember, I do not think we have defeated more than a few Dragon Blooded.

 

[JayTee]

[Removed]

 

[Feantari]

Good grief so many pages. Why don't you just try to do whatever you respectively want to do and the ST and the system will make it as hard or easy as they want to? It seems exalted is open ended enough to support many theories on the topic so just try do accomplish what you want and see how it works out?

 

[cyl]

@xarvh : I'd like your opinion on the following charms:


Cover Shrounding Movement (IMUC p.21)


Night's Avenger Lunge (IMUC p.24)


Reversal of Fortune (IMUC p.24)


Aegis of Altruistic Imposition (SoE 2.5 p.167)


I'd also like a ruling on King of Thieves Spirit (SoE 2.5 p.168 ) : can it be used at essence 4 to steal artifacts in active use without breaking the commitment according to you ?


Thanks in advance

 

[Feantari]

So, you're a big bad eclipse, you've been captured by evil and you've seen the weakness in those you love, don't you think maybe its time to try something new, something.. better. Come let me tell you my story...


Wind-Born Stride


Sacred Kamilla's Inhalation


Freedom Lets Go


Theft as Release

 

[cyl]

Meh, even if he was presented with a tempting offer from a GSP who's proven himself to defeat deathknights... Malek's motivation would prevent him from succumbing to the power hungry Yozis.


He would have to recaptured and tortured all over again and I'm currently studying the best ways to make it almost impossible for him to be taken ever again.


Edit: and I don't think capturing one and forcing him to teach his charm to an Eclipse is a viable option.

 

[Feantari]

Oh come on, you wouldn't have to learn it from a GSP and certainly wouldn't have to be a hostile interaction. yawn, there are plenty of ways to go about learning such things if you are interested.

 

[JayTee]

Primordial Principle Emulation!