[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[cyl]

IIRC I asked if Malek remembered the face of Larquen Quen, and Xarvh said "yes".


Had a lot on my mind lately, so I'll double check that.


Also, don't feel too bad about not being on top of Words so far.


We all know defense is rather easy to channel and only half the charms are necessary to defeat the charm set of an attacker.


Of all the solars in our group, there's only one who has no PD, and that's my guy... and that got him to where he is now (among other mistakes).


Abyssals being precious resources not to be wasted, I can understand the Mask of Winters insist heavily on their defensive training to avoid losing them in a fight, and that it makes his knights pretty damn hard to kill, especially those who are not combat specialists.


All the stupid ones that got wounded or killed were Walker's guys IIRC.

 

[Kacie]

Okay - better now, slightly, for not being trapped.


Going to kill that bastard.

 

[Kacie]

Also, my apologies for saying a combat focus character was a waste. That's clearly not true, that was my rage getting the better of me.

 

[xarvh]

Why Kacie, why in the fucking world shouldn't your opponents do their very fucking best to stay as far as possibile from your scythe?


Your expectation to kill guys just because you are a melee specialist makes me think that you played more dnd than exalted.

 

[xarvh]

And no, you are not getting to kill him because he collapsed another wall a few metres ahead.


Stop being angry, you are smarter than that.

 

[cyl]

Ah frustration, when does it not get the best of us ?

 

[Kacie]

Why Xarvh, why would I play a game for fun and relaxation that's more frustrating than enjoyable?

 

[cyl]

I'd think one has to be a bit frustrated first by the obstacles to earn one's way to enjoyment when one overcomes the challenges before him.


Otherwise there is just the pleasure of rping, which is fine, but sometimes not enough.


I've been quite frustrated by the relationship Fangs & Malek had for a long time, even though it was justified by their respective backgrounds it took epic proportion and at times overflowed in the OOC, but now we're sort of in a happy place, it's very promising for the future of the game and I'm enjoying this new development very much.


I think it would not have been as enjoyable now if we did not have lived through these oppositions and tensions.


edit: I wasn't trying to be judgmental here, I can completely relate to your frustration, my character can do a lot of things, but the price to pay for that is he can't really be the best at what he does, and he often gets kicked in the teeth.

 

[Kacie]

I joined about 9 months ago.


Since that time Mirror has:


1) accidentally wrecked the alliance between the Cross and Tirana


2) accidentally driven a wedge between exalts in the Cross


3) killed Keyana long enough to have the Mask crush Lookshy,


4) uncovered an interesting mausoleum in Thorns that might somehow eventually tell her something about the Neverborn - now not possible to follow up due to


5) committing and going all out wherever the hell she is and attacking Words. Which is currently going about as well as anything else does.


This is not so much "things to overcome" as "gee, I've made the situation for the other PCs much, much worse than if I'd never joined."

 

[cyl]

Heh... I started the game my pc's hometown was burning, zombies ate his dad, and the Wyld Hunt started to carpet bomb us and the refugees.


Most. Violent. Introduction. EVER !


I only beat that once in my life when I played my first campaign and I killed 2 out of 5 pcs playing the invasion of Thorns as an introduction to the game in 1e. (I was inexperienced with Exalted back then).


The guys thought it was epic, asked for more and even though some of them had died, they died as heroes which gave them a great insight about what Exalted was about.


Back to EOTFS.


Right after we pushed back the flying death star; a lot of people died in the jungles, then we god attacked by giants flies and Didee, then the Widow came and dropped 10 000 catatonic Thornians, then we lost a bunch of essential people (like the dawn general, the zenith, and the eclipse) and we had to reorganize our team quick to hold on, then we lost the notes and some people, etc etc


Trust me, your presence hasn't made things worse.


The Mask would have found another way to hurt Big K after the Void Heart's failure and we would have probably lost more than we did with Mirror being possessed.


A simple trade with us "kill her, and I'll let you live for a thousands years, don't and I'll send the Juggernaut on your ass" would have been sufficient I think.


Xarvh's Creation is a pretty dangerous place where mistakes don't go unnoticed. And we made those repeatedly.


It was not wise to forget to protect the Library and the Notes after Walker in the Darkness sent the Widow to bargain for them.


It was not wise to not protect our supply lines.


It was not wise to let soldiers go through the jungles without escort when we knew the Legion could get to them.


It was not wise to bring a deathknight on Tirana's turf without sending a message first.


It was not wise to bring a deathknight known to be possessed by the Neverborn in front of a Primordial who was on the NB's kill list.


It was not wise to forget to do recon work in Lookshy.


Which is not to say we are plain dumb.


At times our concentration is not at its maximum for several reasons and at times we think naively that we cannot do more, or focus on something and forget about the rest.


It's rather easy to realize that and call it out after the mistakes have been made, but if we are not careful or forget to be, then we expose ourselves.


That is where my comments on increasing security come from.


The realization that it's probably not going to be okay if we don't cover our asses as best we can.


This is not a game for kids, the ST is extremely intelligent (and kind of vicious, but in a good way > ) and he challenges us intellectually with big things and decisions.


We have a lot of epic challenges ahead of us, some handicaps and some advantages, and so far we have indeed overcome some of the challenges we faced, and at times we were beaten because we failed to take measures to avoid creating breaches in our hull and our enemies who are often smarter, more powerful and more informed than our characters are, exploit those weaknesses.


Personally I'm okay with that, it gives me a strong drive to think things through and since I've been trained to this as a former student of laws and political institutions I'm having a blast.


Even though at times it can be frustrating, the frustration, the paranoia, the impending doom is useful and it feels better when we achieve something, and obviously it feels worse when we fail.


But we always have to keep the big picture in mind.


Recently I had a hard time sacrificing Malek in Lookshy, I got quite frustrated and thought I had realized a lot of things about our weaknesses and the dynamics of this game and started to consider the dominion was a weakness, that we had to focus on the exalted enemies etc etc... and then I realized I had put myself in that position.


It was my mistake that got me into this mess, my overconfidence and lack of prudence and vision, and from there it's Xarvh who's giving us three an opportunity to weave an awesome story and write a new chapter of this game around that mistake.


Fangs & Mirror are trying to rescue Malek out of the most desperate place of all, and if they pull that through, then this will be probably one of the biggest accomplishments of the game (PS3 epic trophy unlocked ), and not only that, but Fangs will have changed his mind about a lot of things and then we will be able to evolve and possibly bring those characters closer for more epic stuff to come.


I think letting a deathknight get away and live another day to get there is a fair trade... but since I'm the guy in chains, and not the one who has to let the bad guy go, I can understand that it's hard to swallow, and I feel for you... but I think it's possible to see it as a necessary evil.


If Mirror hadn't struck Big K, and took a trip into the Underworld with Fangs, and if Malek had not been captured, then this "reconciliation" process would not have been possible.


From there, Mirror and Malek gain a common enemy (Words), so I'm okay if he doesn't die right away.


We'll get the chance to kill him later and get the Ring back.


Together hopefully !

 

[cyl]

Also, since I'm in the positive sharing mood apparently:


Having Words escaping Mirror makes him "the guy that managed to get away", which is a great drive for her to want to kill him in the future, since killing is what she does best.


Just like Siham & Argis have priority over killing the Void Heart, and Malek has enough reasons to kill the Legion, if you don't kill him now, the coup de grace for Words will probably belong to you one day.


We'll just have to sweat, cry and bleed hard to get there.


And then Xarvh will find other difficulties for us to face >

 

[xarvh]

Ok, I posted that stuff before you cooled down, my bad.


1) If it wasn't obvious, Tirana has been looking for a while for any pretext to make a fuss.


2) Malek and Fangs have been wedged long before you joined. If anything, Mirror is putting them together for the first time in 3 years of game.


3) True, but that was awesome.


4) Why would the Mask ever prevent Mirror from entering Thorns?


5) One of the two opponents did NOT lose a foot.

Why Xarvh, why would I play a game for fun and relaxation that's more frustrating than enjoyable?

Because you just forced an Abyssal to run for his life.


But maybe you think that happens often.


Because of the thrill, because of the challenge, because of the drama.


Because you have the opportunity to be creative and to affect a vast, complex, pulsating world.


Because if you fuck up OR JUST IF YOU ARE UNLUCKY you will pay the consequences.


Because often times shit just happens and whatever you do you will lose.


But you can still make a huge difference about how you will lose.


And when you will finally win, it won't be because I am letting you win, it was because YOU made it, and you will know it is all yours.


(As an aside, have you noticed how in the last 20 years videogames went from being actually hard to something entertaining that just requires time?)


Really, it costs me nothing to have Mirror vanquish an endless line of cheap, nameless NPC, each entirely described as "female solar with daiklave", "bloodlusty abyssal with strange MA style" or whatever.


It's full of games like that here or in any forum on the internet.


I want you to get to know your enemies.


I want you to know that they are real, and are playing against you in very solid ways, exploiting any weakness you have.


This does not happen if they just die the first time you meet them.


I want them to have real motivations other than "being evil".


I want you to recognize them, learn their names, their manners, their methods.


I want you to kill them not because you can, but because you fucking HATE them.


Because you don't sleep at night thinking about how to kill them.


Because just as the PCs are fucking powerful and hard to defeat, so are the enemies they face.


Because the PCs are incredibly resourceful and will take oblique approach to problems, and so will their Exalted foes.


In the end, heroes are only as large as what they face.

 

[Feantari]

And Argis doesn't really have a kill wish for Void Heart. He lost an arm to the guy, but wasn't in direct combat with him ever.


I just hope that when he finishes Crane form he might have a chance to use the final charm on some enemy. It would be fun, esp Legion. xD

 

[Arynne]

Hey Cyl, what template did you use to build Melia as a delegate?

 

[cyl]

I used no template... I still haven't done her sheet.


We fixed the template to mortal hero, with 250xp and free essence 2 + 15 motes pool of essence (from the charm).


I think I'm going to make her a spy or something, but I'm quite busy right now with IRL interviews and stuff and building a decent character with that much xp takes a bit of time.

 

[Arynne]

We fixed the template to mortal hero, with 250xp and free essence 2 + 15 motes pool of essence (from the charm).

You mean, as on p. 81 of the core book?


Edit: You mean, this sheet?

 

[cyl]

Yeah, that was the first draft from before we decided to write a common system for allies & delegates.


Now I have to redo her stats all over, and pump in and additional 250 xp.


That sheet is far from being the definitive version.

 

[cyl]

You mean, as on p. 81 of the core book?

That's the part I don't remember.


I think we're using that template, or could be the one from the Scroll of Heroes.


It's written somewhere in the ooc or the Art of War thread.

 

[cyl]

And Argis doesn't really have a kill wish for Void Heart. He lost an arm to the guy, but wasn't in direct combat with him ever.
I just hope that when he finishes Crane form he might have a chance to use the final charm on some enemy. It would be fun, esp Legion. xD

I'd like the Legion to be a team effort, after all that bitch screwed with us and our plans for such a long time, but I'll really ask for the final blow as she destroyed Malek's hometown, unless someone wants to come up with a rewrite program like Words did.


Oh idea for the mad geneticists... essence sucking leeches >


I think I'd like to see her dead before we rebuild the city actually.

 

[Feantari]

That's not...


Wisdom of the Celestial Crane:


"...An attack that successfully deals bashing damage also causes its victim to lose a point of willpower.


A character who loses their last willpower point this way or who is reduced to their incapacitated health level by a supplemented attack instantly forms an intimacy of love for creation, as an irresistible unnatural emotion effect."


Argis isn't about killing.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Your expectation to kill guys just because you are a melee specialist makes me think that you played more dnd than exalted.

A couple thoughts:

• This is a pretty hazardous line of reasoning when someone is already miffed
  
• It's also actively not true, or at least is not true enough to be irrelevant - there's a reason when I needed a replacement for Walker I went looking for Kacie
  
• Has been reinforced by the game thus far. When encountering combat-focused NPCs, non-combat PCs have been well and truly boned mechanically. Kacie and I did talk this over before we attacked Words, and we agreed that the tendency of the game, and your NPCs, is for them to be really rather strong in their particular forte, but with no particular evidence of strength outside it. I'd argue that this is the reason for a lot of the circle's hesitancy - "But what if there's a combat NPC near by?"
  

And while, by and large, I'm very very happy with this game, I've had my own bout of frustration or two over what I think feels a lot like "An awful lot of stick for not much carrot". While it's fun to be challenged, it's less fun to wonder what was the point of this at all. It's kind of a fine line.

 

[xarvh]

A couple thoughts:

• Has been reinforced by the game thus far. When encountering combat-focused NPCs, non-combat PCs have been well and truly boned mechanically.
  

And all of them survived it.


Why should it be any different for a NPC?

 

[CrazyIvan]

And all of them survived it.
Why should it be any different for a NPC?

My answer for this will likely differ from yours on the philosophy of running games, but here it goes:


Because it doesn't matter if the NPCs are having fun.

 

[xarvh]

It is a matter of consistency, and of having believable characters.


I am growing tired of all this.


If you want a game where you kill nameless celestials one after the others, be my guest.


Mirror got already to fight ghosts when entering the Labyrinth.


They lasted shit.


Tell me, was it fun?

 

[Arynne]

"...An attack that successfully deals bashing damage also causes its victim to lose a point of willpower.
A character who loses their last willpower point this way or who is reduced to their incapacitated health level by a supplemented attack instantly forms an intimacy of love for creation, as an irresistible unnatural emotion effect."

Ouch. Cruel mercy for an Abyssal.