Kacie
One Thousand Club
Ah, eugenics.
*prods people to post IC*
*prods people to post IC*
[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread
- Thread starter xarvh
- Start date
Feantari
Water Sprite
To be clear, while he does have concern for Shiana, I am talking about invading Walker's realm and reclaiming it for creation via the bloom.
cyl
Creepy smile
Okay then maybe a child's head.xarvh said:
"It's yours.
She did not like his face.
It makes her remembers of how bad you suck"
Feantari
Water Sprite
We are not so well off as to ignore allies and resources. Fangs has pissed off Tirana, Mirror is a non-starter, Flicker seems averse to dealing with her (possibly hates her), Siham and Kalak are options, but dangerous ones, Malek is now missing, and that leaves Argis with, whom Tirana hates.
No good options doesn't mean no options. Argis isn't a guy for the whole gratification and personal joy train if you haven't noticed. He'll miss it if its gone, and his heart bleeds, but his motivation is to spread civilization so that more people can live safely with greater enlightenment. Rarely through patient discourse is war made, but often the lack of communication destroys good things. What can he do but try? Leave them alone? Risk failing? If his plans succeed without her she will want what they have won, but having had no part in it to allow her it would be weakness. To work together for it builds ties. In short, if we act in the area without her involvement it creates a sense of antagonism and makes it easier for her to turn on Cross.
No good options doesn't mean no options. Argis isn't a guy for the whole gratification and personal joy train if you haven't noticed. He'll miss it if its gone, and his heart bleeds, but his motivation is to spread civilization so that more people can live safely with greater enlightenment. Rarely through patient discourse is war made, but often the lack of communication destroys good things. What can he do but try? Leave them alone? Risk failing? If his plans succeed without her she will want what they have won, but having had no part in it to allow her it would be weakness. To work together for it builds ties. In short, if we act in the area without her involvement it creates a sense of antagonism and makes it easier for her to turn on Cross.
Arynne
Salmon of Doubt
Flicker would deal with her if she had to.
Arynne
Salmon of Doubt
I just realized that Flicker's "flickering" is due to a stewardship instinct on overdrive. Pretty much everything she comes across gets automatically added to her list of things to watch over, and now she's got multiple conflicting protectorates.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
It's unclear that Tirana hates Fangs. Fangs was carefully not named in the breach of contract against the Cross.
The downside is that Fangs isn't available to help Argis with Tirana at the moment.
Tirana's damages fee was far beyond what the Cross could pay, and she knew it -- however, due to later chaos, no one attempted to bargain her down. It's unclear if she simply wanted it to fail, or if she would accept lesser deals.
Fangs did offer to cover a goodly portion (all?) of the damages, as long as Tirana was made keenly aware that Fangs was personally covering the damages - not because Fangs wanted the Cross in her debt, but because this was part of her message to Tirana.
Argis might be able to revive negotiations by bringing up Fangs's offer - it's slim, but better than nothing?
The downside is that Fangs isn't available to help Argis with Tirana at the moment.
Tirana's damages fee was far beyond what the Cross could pay, and she knew it -- however, due to later chaos, no one attempted to bargain her down. It's unclear if she simply wanted it to fail, or if she would accept lesser deals.
Fangs did offer to cover a goodly portion (all?) of the damages, as long as Tirana was made keenly aware that Fangs was personally covering the damages - not because Fangs wanted the Cross in her debt, but because this was part of her message to Tirana.
Argis might be able to revive negotiations by bringing up Fangs's offer - it's slim, but better than nothing?
CrazyIvan
Two Thousand Club
Indeed - Fangs did assert that she was perfectly willing to recast this as a personal tiff between Tirana and herself. Still willing to do that.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
Well that's torn it.
I don't see a way to get Malek out without either dismantling the Monstrance or crushing his hands and feet.
Up to Fangs to find a more clever way out.
So pissed.
I don't see a way to get Malek out without either dismantling the Monstrance or crushing his hands and feet.
Up to Fangs to find a more clever way out.
So pissed.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
Hmmm. Unless Words managed to trap himself, that is. Long shot, but we'll see.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
Not really.
He managed to lose a metatarsus.
He managed to lose a metatarsus.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
Xarvh, I'm incredibly frustrated and upset.
Please tell me we are not as fucked as I think we are.
Considering I think Void Heart and his spy anywhere + shoot anywhere combo are coming up soon, along with possibly Mask himself cracking open the tunnel to greet Mirror, I think we are very, very fucked.
Please tell me we are not as fucked as I think we are.
Considering I think Void Heart and his spy anywhere + shoot anywhere combo are coming up soon, along with possibly Mask himself cracking open the tunnel to greet Mirror, I think we are very, very fucked.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
You are NOT as fucked up as you think you are.
But.
You are indeed in a dangerous situation.
But.
You are indeed in a dangerous situation.
Feantari
Water Sprite
This game has a way of making you feel like you're fucked all the time. One of these days I'll feel like I have the right charms for a given situation... maybe...
ST
ST
Kacie
One Thousand Club
I'm still extremely upset.
CrazyIvan and I discussed our options before each juncture, and we agreed on these key points:
1) Words was deadly in social combat, and we both expected him to win if we tried to talk our way through
2) Time was against us, especially if -
3) Words raised the alarm meant likely dealing with Void Heart super-ranged attacks
4) Because of possible Void Heart attacks, Malek couldn't be left undefended
Once the tunnel was collapsed, there was no way forward but through. Mirror started the scene already at 2/3 motes or fewer. Words is likely Essence 5. Despite devoting most of my experience to combat, despite trying to be as tactically smart as I could be, Words gets past Mirror. Fine - I'd expected a frantic desperate chase through the halls of wherever we are, trying to down him before he can raise the alarm - but this? If that Str + Ath roll doesn't free Mirror, then she's helpless. I don't feel like I made bad tactical decisions. I don't feel like I made stupid moves. I did the best with what I had, and I'm still impotent.
It's very, very hard to see this and not think we were set up to fail.
The whole point of sneaking in here was to try and get some additional advantage, try and turn the tables somehow. We're still not guaranteed of getting Malek out without killing him, and without capturing Words, any hope of gaining the advantage is gone. We aren't going to find Malek's gear, let alone something to use against the Mask.
Sure, if we can save Malek, things are not as bad as they would have been. But Mirror's cover has been blown in the process; she can't walk back into Thorns and continue her investigation. She loses her ally, who's a loyalist. Malek has no gear. The net count is that this is still a terrible debacle all the way round - we have nothing to show for it. Mask merely loses the opportunity to get another minion; we lose opportunities and resources we won't get again.
CrazyIvan and I discussed our options before each juncture, and we agreed on these key points:
1) Words was deadly in social combat, and we both expected him to win if we tried to talk our way through
2) Time was against us, especially if -
3) Words raised the alarm meant likely dealing with Void Heart super-ranged attacks
4) Because of possible Void Heart attacks, Malek couldn't be left undefended
Once the tunnel was collapsed, there was no way forward but through. Mirror started the scene already at 2/3 motes or fewer. Words is likely Essence 5. Despite devoting most of my experience to combat, despite trying to be as tactically smart as I could be, Words gets past Mirror. Fine - I'd expected a frantic desperate chase through the halls of wherever we are, trying to down him before he can raise the alarm - but this? If that Str + Ath roll doesn't free Mirror, then she's helpless. I don't feel like I made bad tactical decisions. I don't feel like I made stupid moves. I did the best with what I had, and I'm still impotent.
It's very, very hard to see this and not think we were set up to fail.
The whole point of sneaking in here was to try and get some additional advantage, try and turn the tables somehow. We're still not guaranteed of getting Malek out without killing him, and without capturing Words, any hope of gaining the advantage is gone. We aren't going to find Malek's gear, let alone something to use against the Mask.
Sure, if we can save Malek, things are not as bad as they would have been. But Mirror's cover has been blown in the process; she can't walk back into Thorns and continue her investigation. She loses her ally, who's a loyalist. Malek has no gear. The net count is that this is still a terrible debacle all the way round - we have nothing to show for it. Mask merely loses the opportunity to get another minion; we lose opportunities and resources we won't get again.
Feantari
Water Sprite
Not saying you shouldn't be upset. Just that I think most of us have been there or are there this game. Being out matched all the time and what not.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
No, you were not set up to fail.
But, if you go to a Deathlord's home (or for that matter, to any home of a malevolent being whose Permanent Essence is twice as yours), do expect that things won't go as you want and things will go very bad very fast.
Seriously, were you expecting to have a tea with the Mask?
Words is neither a fighter, neither a power-armor-enhanced runner.
Approaching a Lunar and her combat-focused mate without a solid control of the situation would have been suicidal.
Apparently, he's not suicidal.
He took a huge risk already, but he's playing at home, where he is in control.
Assuming you manage to save Malek, you are still underestimating a few gains:
- You have met a very powerful Lunar.
- You have learned a lot about a very powerful foe of yours.
In this game, information is necessary.
I put a lot of effort into surrounding you in a solid fog of war.
BUT.
I put the same effort into moving the NPCs according to *their* fog of war (except, perhaps, the Widow).
Things are not easy for them and they also have to cope with formidable challenges and incomplete information.
But, if you go to a Deathlord's home (or for that matter, to any home of a malevolent being whose Permanent Essence is twice as yours), do expect that things won't go as you want and things will go very bad very fast.
Seriously, were you expecting to have a tea with the Mask?
Words is neither a fighter, neither a power-armor-enhanced runner.
Approaching a Lunar and her combat-focused mate without a solid control of the situation would have been suicidal.
Apparently, he's not suicidal.
He took a huge risk already, but he's playing at home, where he is in control.
Assuming you manage to save Malek, you are still underestimating a few gains:
- You have met a very powerful Lunar.
- You have learned a lot about a very powerful foe of yours.
In this game, information is necessary.
I put a lot of effort into surrounding you in a solid fog of war.
BUT.
I put the same effort into moving the NPCs according to *their* fog of war (except, perhaps, the Widow).
Things are not easy for them and they also have to cope with formidable challenges and incomplete information.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
Fucking NO! I did not go in expecting it to be easy!
Did I expect to go in at 2/3 essence and immediately come face to face with an essence 5 deathknight who could collapse tunnels? While my partner is stuck making sure a helpless comrade doesn't get shot by another essence 5 deathknight who can assassinate anyone from distance? No!
Just who do you think we learned much about? Words? Only thing that has surprised me about him is his tunnel-collapsing thing. Mask? We learned nothing except he claims to want to attack the Cross next. Great - it's one of 3 places that's most logical to attack next, and that's if he's telling the truth. It's common sense to break a solar instead of killing them outright. Learning he breaks solars in Monstrances doesn't tell us much we didn't already guess at all. Right now we don't even know if the Solar -> Abyssal thing is possible. Malek thinks so, but there's no proof.
We met a powerful Lunar, and what? We don't know how to find him. We don't know who's side he's on. We assume he was trying to strike a blow against the Mask, but the way this has gone, he could have been sending us as a gift to the Mask. He clearly didn't want to tell us anything more than he did. Why would we think we can ask favors of him later? Things have gone so well with Tirana, after all!
Information is necessary, but we haven't learned anything that actually helps us.
You're overestimating the worth of whatever it is you think you've told us.
And yet he still bests the combat focused character. I understand he wants to get the fuck away. But this? Either Mirror digs her way out, Fangs has a spell that teleports or digs Mirror out, or she's dead. Better they kill her and have her shard go to a new deathknight - and frankly, she doesn't recover from a torture session with Words, she's fragile as-is.
I'd have rather faced off against Void Heart and Idle Wind than be trapped helpless in a pocket of a tunnel.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
The Void Heart would never engage Mirror in the close spaces of the tunnels.
And again, Words would have stayed the fuck out if he though he had to engage you in combat.
If you did expect him to commit such a reckless move without having a backup, then you have learned something valuable about a rather important NPC.
He did that because he knew he could fall back.
The stupid Abyssals of this game died already.
And again, Words would have stayed the fuck out if he though he had to engage you in combat.
If you did expect him to commit such a reckless move without having a backup, then you have learned something valuable about a rather important NPC.
He did that because he knew he could fall back.
The stupid Abyssals of this game died already.
cyl
Creepy smile
Uh, Malek did learn the identity of the Mask of Winters.
That's something supposedly huuuuuuuuuuuuuge for our characters.
That's something supposedly huuuuuuuuuuuuuge for our characters.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
I did not expect Words to engage or stay in combat. I knew he'd flee - but I was also extremely worried he'd hold Malek hostage. I judged Words fleeing was better than Words holding Malek hostage.
Now, being stuck in a pocket of tunnel, I think I was wrong.
Of course Void Heart wouldn't engage in a closed space. Of course, he doesn't have to. Sub in any combat you like - I'd prefer that to being stuck in a tunnel.
I'm honestly not worried about losing an Ally. I'm worried about being captured and tortured, which seems highly likely.
Malek saw a guy. Cyl, you asked if it was so-and-so, Xarvh said yes. That didn't appear to be IC knowledge - besides, how the hell would Malek know of a Solar that specialized in not being seen or remembered?
Right now what I'm hearing is that I'd have been better off by not trying to be an effective combat character and letting Words escape without trying to go after him. That, and too bad sucker for going for a combat character when it's impossible to actually engage an enemy long enough to kill them.
Now, being stuck in a pocket of tunnel, I think I was wrong.
Of course Void Heart wouldn't engage in a closed space. Of course, he doesn't have to. Sub in any combat you like - I'd prefer that to being stuck in a tunnel.
I'm honestly not worried about losing an Ally. I'm worried about being captured and tortured, which seems highly likely.
Malek saw a guy. Cyl, you asked if it was so-and-so, Xarvh said yes. That didn't appear to be IC knowledge - besides, how the hell would Malek know of a Solar that specialized in not being seen or remembered?
Right now what I'm hearing is that I'd have been better off by not trying to be an effective combat character and letting Words escape without trying to go after him. That, and too bad sucker for going for a combat character when it's impossible to actually engage an enemy long enough to kill them.
