[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[Arynne]

Malek needs to seriously stop helping.

 

[xarvh]

Give me a few hours.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Give me a few hours.

No worries - part of the reason I posted the "No seriously, 'Exit Fangs Stage Left'" note is I have some math to sit down and work out for the rest of the night.

 

[Kacie]

Sorry, was gone part of the evening, and didn't get to post until just now.


Mirror wants to ask a few more questions.

 

[xarvh]

Mirror wants to ask a few more questions.

Strictly speaking, that's not your personal meeting.

 

[Kacie]

What do you want to happen, Xarvh? I posted before I saw that there was another page worth of posts I hadn't read, including the one where you stated Mirror left. I'm sorry, I genuinely didn't see your declarative post.


I didn't declare Mirror was leaving, and Malek is expounding at large in front of everyone, so it seemed a fair time to ask questions. Mirror would like to ask everyone what exactly went down.


If you want to end the scene, that's fine, but I don't know what you're trying to do.

 

[xarvh]

Ok, no problem, Fangs left, Mirror is there.


The thread stresses me, and I feel I am trying too hard to push things towards something more varied.


If you all are enjoying it (it's quite good RP) I'm ok with it.


This is something you guys are handling by yourselves, so I'll take a break and stop reading the notification of the Monster thread and the OOC for a while.

 

[Feantari]

FWIW I'd really like to hear the answer to her question because Malek and Flicker haven't really bothered to tell anyone else about this. Argis just heard Malek rant a few times and not any details.

 

[Kacie]

Arguing in circles is exhausting and stressful. I have a stake in the argument, so of course I find it fascinating - but I also don't want to monopolize everyone else's time/spotlight. That is bad.


I'm perfectly okay if another PC interrupts and says, "This is not the time to discuss this." Mirror will nod, drop the issue, make her excuses & leave (with a side note to Argis to drop by and talk about recon later).


Alternatively, the Exalts who are really worried about 1) the Deathknight in general, or 2) Ankss and revenge/avenging, could decide to schedule a meeting in the future to hash this stuff out. That way, only the players/PCs who are interested in this stuff are in the scene, and the other players aren't trapped in the scene.


EDIT: Just saw Feantari's post above. If people want to continue the scene w/ questions and such, I'm cool with that too.

 

[cyl]

You know posting that much content and trying to articulate things and concepts in a way that all ties together is exhausting too, whether it's for what we are going to do with the dominion or the nature of exalts.


We all know where abyssal come from but our character do not, we all know why most solars disappear, but they don't, and actually it's probable that Xarvh may have some tricks up his sleeve, so asking ourselves those questions may not be in vain.


I thought tying it all together and asking the questions that hurt - though totally untimely and not diplomatic at all - was appropriate when Mirror spoke of avenging Berek's death.


I know I could have waited and asked for a scene with Mirror - Fangs - Flicker - Malek... but considering how fast Fangs can move, and the presence of Argis, Rhapsody and Kalak (giving good peer pressure), it was the only serious shot we could have had to stop the crazy couple from rampaging Ankss.

 

[cyl]

This is something you guys are handling by yourselves, so I'll take a break and stop reading the notification of the Monster thread and the OOC for a while.

Oh I believe that once we have revealed the truth, defused the situation, and made sure that Mirror will not attack Ankss and hopefully will try to stop Fangs from doing it... or not , we will resume planning our next moves.


It shouldn't take long to see where we are going with this.

 

[Norts]

Kalak actually wouldn't try to stop them from getting revenge, but he would try, like Flickering Claw, to stop them from wholesale slaughter.


That, and Malek is providing him with an apt example for what his people likely think of him at the moment, so he's not too keen to side with him at the moment.

 

[cyl]

Wait till he hears that Berek was stealing babies before he died... that should change things a bit.

 

[CrazyIvan]

You know posting that much content and trying to articulate things and concepts in a way that all ties together is exhausting too, whether it's for what we are going to do with the dominion or the nature of exalts.
We all know where abyssal come from but our character do not, we all know why most solars disappear, but they don't, and actually it's probable that Xarvh may have some tricks up his sleeve, so asking ourselves those questions may not be in vain.


I thought tying it all together and asking the questions that hurt - though totally untimely and not diplomatic at all - was appropriate when Mirror spoke of avenging Berek's death.


I know I could have waited and asked for a scene with Mirror - Fangs - Flicker - Malek... but considering how fast Fangs can move, and the presence of Argis, Rhapsody and Kalak (giving good peer pressure), it was the only serious shot we could have had to stop the crazy couple from rampaging Ankss.

The problem, as always, is that Malek was arrogant and presumptuous in the way he asked the questions, inserting his own motives as the only right ones, assuming Cunning Fangs hasn't asked those questions or made those decisions, etc.


I was tempted to have Fangs call him on the hypocrisy as well. He called Berek a friend, yet eagerly rushes to a weapon that saw him killed, and wants to use it in a way to ensure the deaths of every Death Knight, redeemable or not, and presumably a large number of ghosts. Ghosts with their own cultures and societies. But honestly, I thought it best to leave the scene.

Oh I believe that once we have revealed the truth, defused the situation, and made sure that Mirror will not attack Ankss and hopefully will try to stop Fangs from doing it... or not , we will resume planning our next moves.
It shouldn't take long to see where we are going with this.

Yeah, sorry to say but that's not going to happen unless you persuade Kacie. If Malek was trying to convince Fangs not to attack Ankss, he moved negative points in that direction. In fact, bringing up her mate only reminded Fangs that not only did they kill her mate, but risked having her mate's exaltation end up in the hands of a Death Knight beyond redemption.

Wait till he hears that Berek was stealing babies before he died... that should change things a bit.

I think it fascinating that both Flicker and Malek assume Walker was doing this without a morally defensible reason. Malek it least is not using it as an explanation of 'Why' he was killed, but why it was right for the Dragon Kings to do so.

 

[Feantari]

I do have to say that I question a bit why this has to devolve every damn time. I get that there is IC friction, but Malek is being completely oblivious to what Fangs is talking about. He has good socialize and investigation scores. Hell, he's been working so well at his tact during discussion with Tirana you'd think he could spare some consideration for Cunning Fangs.

 

[Kacie]

I want to hear what Rhapsody and Kalak have to say before I reply.

 

[cyl]

The problem, as always, is that Malek was arrogant and presumptuous in the way he asked the questions, inserting his own motives as the only right ones, assuming Cunning Fangs hasn't asked those questions or made those decisions, etc.

He wasn't assuming she had not asked herself those questions he was pushing her to answer what kind of road she was taking.


Getting her mate back into the light (vengeance is bad, you have a second chance and the context explains why Berek died) or accompanying him in the darkness (let's go and burn those bastards !).


He's worried that both will go on a slippery slope.

I was tempted to have Fangs call him on the hypocrisy as well. He called Berek a friend, yet eagerly rushes to a weapon that saw him killed, and wants to use it in a way to ensure the deaths of every Death Knight, redeemable or not, and presumably a large number of ghosts. Ghosts with their own cultures and societies. But honestly, I thought it best to leave the scene.

The Bloom did not killed Berek, the Dragon Kings did.


He died because he was as helpless as a human would have been.


Other contaminated deathknights will be drained of their powers as well, and if they go on their quests for destruction without power... then obviously they'll get their asses kicked.


Slaying innoncent ghosts is a very good point though, and we have too few information to see if the souls are actually destroyed or reintegrated to the Wheel. Depending on the answer we might want to refrain from using it, although some wil argue that Ghosts fighting in the army of a Deathlord are like mortal soldiers. A lot of them usally die in battle.


As for Fangs departure, obviously it was predictable, although Malek hoped that his questions about the souls could have had some impact on her, maybe later. But he's not using the proper words yet.


He's rather sensible to the subject of exalts rampaging masses... coming from Mirunda n all...

Yeah, sorry to say but that's not going to happen unless you persuade Kacie. If Malek was trying to convince Fangs not to attack Ankss, he moved negative points in that direction. In fact, bringing up her mate only reminded Fangs that not only did they kill her mate, but risked having her mate's exaltation end up in the hands of a Death Knight beyond redemption.

If Fangs had stayed, Malek would have asked what would Fangs or Tirana had done if the situation was applied to them.


That could have changed things a bit, or not.

I think it fascinating that both Flicker and Malek assume Walker was doing this without a morally defensible reason. Malek it least is not using it as an explanation of 'Why' he was killed, but why it was right for the Dragon Kings to do so.

There are ways to do things, helping humans get away because they are treated like animals is okay, stealing babies... not so much.


And no Malek is not condemning Berek for what he did, he doesn't know why he did that, and probably never will.


But he knows that is what got him killed and that in the Dragon Kings place, everyone else in this world who cares about their youngs would have gone after Berek and killed him.

 

[Arynne]

The Unconquered Sun accepts all hearts sacrificed to him. Even in the First Age, the Solars permitted the sacrifices to continue.


When the world is full of slavery and torture and genocide all over the place, stopping the Dragon Kings from doing something Conky himself seems to have been OK with probably isn't going to be the returned Solars' first priority.

 

[Kacie]

Depends on the Solar. I'm waiting to see how Rhapsody views this, since she has strong views on the worship of the Unconquered Sun.

 

[CrazyIvan]

The Unconquered Sun accepts all hearts sacrificed to him. Even in the First Age, the Solars permitted the sacrifices to continue.
When the world is full of slavery and torture and genocide all over the place, stopping the Dragon Kings from doing something Conky himself seems to have been OK with probably isn't going to be the returned Solars' first priority.

"Because following First Age norms worked out so well last time"

 

[cyl]

I do have to say that I question a bit why this has to devolve every damn time. I get that there is IC friction, but Malek is being completely oblivious to what Fangs is talking about. He has good socialize and investigation scores. Hell, he's been working so well at his tact during discussion with Tirana you'd think he could spare some consideration for Cunning Fangs.

That is true, Malek could cut Fangs some slack, but in this case he could not have for 2 reasons.


1- Malek can't change Tirana's mind or challenge her word or philosophy right on the spot.


She's an elder and he's young. He may have convictions but he knows he can't push her too far.


He thinks he can be more open and direct with Fangs and challenge her views and ways. He's wrong and he is learning it.


2- while Tirana somehow reassured him last time (moving the farmers was smart and he took this as a "I don't want to slay them and I think you'll do better use of them"), Fangs seriously worries him (see why above).


If Tirana had said to him "I'll slay two thousands farmers that are on lands I covet", Malek would have said "well, we'll meet you in the field !".


When Fangs and Mirror say "we are going to avenge Berek's death and burn Ankss", he tries to stop them before they do something he views as dark and ugly.

 

[Feantari]

That is true, Malek could cut Fangs some slack, but in this case he could not have for 2 reasons.
1- Malek can't change Tirana's mind or challenge her word or philosophy right on the spot.


She's an elder and he's young. He may have convictions but he knows he can't push her too far.


He thinks he can be more open and direct with Fangs and challenge her views and ways. He's wrong and he is learning it.


2- while Tirana somehow reassured him last time (moving the farmers was smart and he took this as a "I don't want to slay them and I think you'll do better use of them"), Fangs seriously worries him (see why above).


If Tirana had said to him "I'll slay two thousands farmers that are on lands I covet", Malek would have said "well, we'll meet you in the field !".


When Fangs and Mirror say "we are going to avenge Berek's death and burn Ankss", he tries to stop them before they do something he views as dark and ugly.

Sure, but if Malek really wanted to stop them he wouldn't do it in a way that is so blatantly obviously going to fail. I mean come on. Looking at the character and the way he has handled this an outside observer might say he just needs something to scream at and has picked Cunning Fangs damn the consequences. He's not being open and direct with her. He's being hostile and belittling her. There is a huge difference. Every time Malek talks to her it is from a stance of combativeness. Which, you may have noticed, completely shuts down open and honest conversation.

 

[cyl]

Depends on the Solar. I'm waiting to see how Rhapsody views this, since she has strong views on the worship of the Unconquered Sun.

Depends on the solar's priorities.


10K people starving to the death vs let's say at worst a 100 sacrificed per year... sometimes you can't fight every battles and you have to pick.


If Mirror wants to save lives, I have X thousands farmers than needs to be moved and protected or Tirana's boys will slaughter them and claim their lands

 

[cyl]

Sure, but if Malek really wanted to stop them he wouldn't do it in a way that is so blatantly obviously going to fail. I mean come on. Looking at the character and the way he has handled this an outside observer might say he just needs something to scream at and has picked Cunning Fangs damn the consequences. He's not being open and direct with her. He's being hostile and belittling her. There is a huge difference. Every time Malek talks to her it is from a stance of combativeness. Which, you may have noticed, completely shuts down open and honest conversation.

That is not true. It only happens when they are on opposite sides of a conversation.


When their views and ways clash against each other... and that happens frequently but not every time.


Put yourself in Malek's shoes. Your whole city has been ravaged by a Deathknight, you have seen what happens when those guys unleash their unholy powers and your circlemate and her abyssal mate speak of doing exactly that.


Are you really going to say "please don't hurt them" nicely ?

 

[CrazyIvan]

That is not true. It only happens when they are on opposite sides of a conversation.
When their views and ways clash against each other... and that happens frequently but not every time.


Put yourself in Malek's shoes. Your whole city has been ravaged by a Deathknight, you have seen what happens when those guys unleash their unholy powers and your circlemate and her abyssal mate speak of doing exactly that.


Are you really going to say "please don't hurt them" nicely ?

Technically you started up with all this under the assumption that it was only one Dragon King.


"Going out for the blood of the one Dragon King who killed him will accomplish nothing."


Cunning Fangs only then stated she intended to teach them an 'Instructive lesson'. So no, you're yelling at Cunning Fangs and her mate for doing anything, from wiping Ankss off the map to a targeted assassination. Then he started moralizing about something for which he knows very little. I'm tired of writing Fangs putting up with it.