cyl
Creepy smile
A few more martial arts charms giving him more confidence (or cojones) and Malek would not have hesitated for a secondFeantari said:
[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread
- Thread starter xarvh
- Start date
Arynne
Salmon of Doubt
What we really need to do, as soon as is practical, is establish people in a group of small towns. A rebuilt Mirunda would be one, the Cross another, and so forth, and assign responsibility for the well-being of each one to a separate Exalt. That would help a lot with the overcrowding and sanitation issues, and make everyone feel less imposed on. Malek could continue to be spokesperson, and even "deciding vote" for the group as a whole when it takes united action about something (and we also really need to start voting or something) but individual villages would have their own forms of government.
cyl
Creepy smile
Couldn't agree more.
But there are just a few problems with that strategy:
- the Legion is still around
- small parties are easily decimated
- small towns are harder to defend
- taking soldiers away from Cross is bad (big K & the labs need to be protected)
I'd say we should prepare ourselves to split the community equally between Mirunda and Cross leaving only the toughest and most dedicated in Cross (since their job is to protect the important sites and live a semi crappy semi isolated life)
That will require as you say at least one exalt staying in each city (or one exalt with great mobility), but also a significant defense force for each city.
We definitely should prepare ourselves for that and actually have some of the basics needed (men, trainers, ships, caravans and enough jade to buy supplies for a long trip, weapons and armors), but I think we need to proceed carefully as long as the Legion is alive -which is why some of us suggested actively taking her down should be a priority-.
I do not know with which we should start first: rebuilding Mirunda or properly equipping Cross to better prepare for the split.
With two ships, Argis and Malek, and the new exalts in the Circle, we could probably do both at the same time, but it requires some thinking and coordination IMHO.
EDIT: oh and about that executive prerogative, I personally do not care if it sticks or not, the character is in a bad place to be taking too many decisions right now and I feel others are now more qualified and fit to lead than he is (Rhapsody would be my first choice to take over).
Sure making him cough up that prerogative may not be easy but even if everyone votes to "relieve him of duty", he will come to terms with that in time - more or less rapidly depending on how it's brought up - and definitely will not turn his back on Cross or the Circle anyway.
But there are just a few problems with that strategy:
- the Legion is still around
- small parties are easily decimated
- small towns are harder to defend
- taking soldiers away from Cross is bad (big K & the labs need to be protected)
I'd say we should prepare ourselves to split the community equally between Mirunda and Cross leaving only the toughest and most dedicated in Cross (since their job is to protect the important sites and live a semi crappy semi isolated life)
That will require as you say at least one exalt staying in each city (or one exalt with great mobility), but also a significant defense force for each city.
We definitely should prepare ourselves for that and actually have some of the basics needed (men, trainers, ships, caravans and enough jade to buy supplies for a long trip, weapons and armors), but I think we need to proceed carefully as long as the Legion is alive -which is why some of us suggested actively taking her down should be a priority-.
I do not know with which we should start first: rebuilding Mirunda or properly equipping Cross to better prepare for the split.
With two ships, Argis and Malek, and the new exalts in the Circle, we could probably do both at the same time, but it requires some thinking and coordination IMHO.
EDIT: oh and about that executive prerogative, I personally do not care if it sticks or not, the character is in a bad place to be taking too many decisions right now and I feel others are now more qualified and fit to lead than he is (Rhapsody would be my first choice to take over).
Sure making him cough up that prerogative may not be easy but even if everyone votes to "relieve him of duty", he will come to terms with that in time - more or less rapidly depending on how it's brought up - and definitely will not turn his back on Cross or the Circle anyway.
CrazyIvan
Two Thousand Club
Touching on a bunch of stuff since I was busy yesterday...
There's a point, and I've reached it, where her tolerating that feels really contrived as a character.
That and Malek's tendency to go for the throat in terms of whether or not she cares about the people of the Cross. She has a Compassion score higher than Malek's, but because it manifests differently (what with her not being a Solar), she's regularly accused of not thinking about the people of the Cross.
Since you provided the unspoiled view of Malek, here's Fangs:
Fangs' character is an exploration of Luna being a huge jerk. Her narrative is taking burdens onto herself, internalizing the grief and suffering involved because she can and others can't. That's what you get with a really high Willpower score combined with her Compassion score. She's meant to be hated, meant to be feared - because sometimes the Cross needs someone who summons demons.
But she also responds very poorly to people imposing authority over her. Blame it on her mate in the First Age. And that her soul is inseparably linked to Void-tainted monsters (hi Mirror o/ ). Or that she Exalted missing a fair amount of blood and an alarming amount of her skin surface area. As she said in the IC thread, right now she feels more like a tool than she normally would accept - it's said that they value her, but it doesn't seem that they value her opinions. Which means its down to folks valuing her skills, and she's not inclined to be someone's pocket sorceress.
So it's not "I'm going to skip off and do what I want on a whim" and more "If I'm going to obliterate my identity for the sake of someone, I'm at least going somewhere where I won't be called a monster for doing it."
I rather liked "Malek's Folly" from an IC perspectiveArynne said:
I'd like to put myself down for thinking this is a neat idea.cyl said:
That would be a correct reading of things. It's not that Fangs doesn't care about the Cross, it's that when she comes to a different conclusion than Malek (a common outcome), the response is rarely "Why?" or "We'll take that under consideration" but "Are you crazy?" and critiques of her character.
There's a point, and I've reached it, where her tolerating that feels really contrived as a character.
Stuff like this is frankly part of the problem - perhaps I've been writing Fangs poorly, but it's less "I do wat I like" and more "If every time I voice an opinion it's ignored, what the hell am I doing here?"
That and Malek's tendency to go for the throat in terms of whether or not she cares about the people of the Cross. She has a Compassion score higher than Malek's, but because it manifests differently (what with her not being a Solar), she's regularly accused of not thinking about the people of the Cross.
Since you provided the unspoiled view of Malek, here's Fangs:
Fangs' character is an exploration of Luna being a huge jerk. Her narrative is taking burdens onto herself, internalizing the grief and suffering involved because she can and others can't. That's what you get with a really high Willpower score combined with her Compassion score. She's meant to be hated, meant to be feared - because sometimes the Cross needs someone who summons demons.
But she also responds very poorly to people imposing authority over her. Blame it on her mate in the First Age. And that her soul is inseparably linked to Void-tainted monsters (hi Mirror o/ ). Or that she Exalted missing a fair amount of blood and an alarming amount of her skin surface area. As she said in the IC thread, right now she feels more like a tool than she normally would accept - it's said that they value her, but it doesn't seem that they value her opinions. Which means its down to folks valuing her skills, and she's not inclined to be someone's pocket sorceress.
So it's not "I'm going to skip off and do what I want on a whim" and more "If I'm going to obliterate my identity for the sake of someone, I'm at least going somewhere where I won't be called a monster for doing it."
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Stuff like this and Malek's explanation is why I play RPGs. I love this stuff. Thanks guys.CrazyIvan said:
cyl
Creepy smile
Malek's words have indeed been too strong, in the past, and now again, as a result of the pressure.
He's not calling her crazy (this time) but he's overly criticizing her attitude and the way she says things.
Would she have brought up that bit about Tirana bleeding Cross on purpose before saying "fuck her", I think I would not have made him react that strongly, which is why I had him settle down a bit and propose to take his leave when he felt he was being a jerk and his input was less valuable than Fangs on that specific matter.
I think it's part of the way we play our characters and the values they rely on that oppose them even though they probably should have had a better connection by now with Malek's change of caste, but since I haven't got the opportunity to broaden his perspective and horizons yet with spirits & such, he's still stuck on his path.
As I said, I'll try to have him relax and open his mind a bit and stop being so rash and especially with Fangs.
A bit more of a "what do you mean ?
" instead of "how can you say that ? :mad: " if you prefer.
Fangs is stronger and smarter than Malek and on some occasions she already showed him what was what, still does in this scene. He's learned much from her over time -The "you presume too much / let me show you" bit he had with Mirror was directly taken from Malek's experience with Fangs - but the burnout prevented him from finishing his introspection and becoming something else.
My guy is not subtle enough to trick or charm Fangs (yet), he doesn't like begging and he's jealous of her powers (I thought about making him go for sorcery at one point to get solar circle just to frustrate her ) but he wants to use them for Cross's benefit, controlling their use because he thinks she's not necessarily in the "proper" state of mind... and he just can't manage to get there and Fangs will not let him (and she definitely shouldn't, the guy is really too extreme).
This scene was an opportunity for me to show he's still stuck and struggling and desperately needs to take a break and get rid of his shackles (some of which he put on himself) to evolve.
I do blame myself however for not having been transparent with you guys.
I will work on taking the appropriate measures to avoid this type of unclear / uneasy situations in the future, and thank you for being awesome people building equally awesome characters & stories !
He's not calling her crazy (this time) but he's overly criticizing her attitude and the way she says things.
Would she have brought up that bit about Tirana bleeding Cross on purpose before saying "fuck her", I think I would not have made him react that strongly, which is why I had him settle down a bit and propose to take his leave when he felt he was being a jerk and his input was less valuable than Fangs on that specific matter.
I think it's part of the way we play our characters and the values they rely on that oppose them even though they probably should have had a better connection by now with Malek's change of caste, but since I haven't got the opportunity to broaden his perspective and horizons yet with spirits & such, he's still stuck on his path.
As I said, I'll try to have him relax and open his mind a bit and stop being so rash and especially with Fangs.
A bit more of a "what do you mean ?
" instead of "how can you say that ? :mad: " if you prefer.That is exactly what I thought of your character and the kind of dynamic we had to create and break at some point to make things interesting IG.
Fangs is stronger and smarter than Malek and on some occasions she already showed him what was what, still does in this scene. He's learned much from her over time -The "you presume too much / let me show you" bit he had with Mirror was directly taken from Malek's experience with Fangs - but the burnout prevented him from finishing his introspection and becoming something else.
My guy is not subtle enough to trick or charm Fangs (yet), he doesn't like begging and he's jealous of her powers (I thought about making him go for sorcery at one point to get solar circle just to frustrate her
) but he wants to use them for Cross's benefit, controlling their use because he thinks she's not necessarily in the "proper" state of mind... and he just can't manage to get there and Fangs will not let him (and she definitely shouldn't, the guy is really too extreme).This scene was an opportunity for me to show he's still stuck and struggling and desperately needs to take a break and get rid of his shackles (some of which he put on himself) to evolve.
I do blame myself however for not having been transparent with you guys.
I will work on taking the appropriate measures to avoid this type of unclear / uneasy situations in the future, and thank you for being awesome people building equally awesome characters & stories !
Feantari
Water Sprite
Argis would be happy to host counselling sessions (or teach you how to go several days without needing sleep, because hey, you're an eclipse now). ;-)
cyl
Creepy smile
Clearly that would help, not sure if Malek is completely aware of his own situation though.
Jumping at Fangs throat again while she was making a good point made him realize that something was off, but I'm not sure he'd be ready to go to another exalt and say "I have a problem and I think I need help" yet.
What I had in mind was a session with Big K to look for guidance and a new set of perspectives and priorities (but she may just make him worse ), but of course if Argis & others take the initiative and help him see there is a dire need for a change, he'll understand and most likely will be very grateful.
Jumping at Fangs throat again while she was making a good point made him realize that something was off, but I'm not sure he'd be ready to go to another exalt and say "I have a problem and I think I need help" yet.
What I had in mind was a session with Big K to look for guidance and a new set of perspectives and priorities (but she may just make him worse
), but of course if Argis & others take the initiative and help him see there is a dire need for a change, he'll understand and most likely will be very grateful.
Feantari
Water Sprite
Well, Argis did just that in this very scene. I think its an accurate description of the problem on a high level, one that could lead both Fangs and Malek to actually take a few hours and explain themselves to each other.
Arynne
Salmon of Doubt
I'm pretty sure Flicker is seriously considering staging an intervention. Because she was trying to salvage the situation, and it was working, damnit, and then the Solars had to open their big mouths... 
cyl
Creepy smile
I'm up for it, but I don't think they should do this that soon.Feantari said:
Dunno what your take on this is CI but at one point I'd really like to get a scene between the two with Malek apologizing for being dumb coughing up what has been eating at him once he makes fist with his toes.
Yeah that's the "shut up woman get on my horse" schtick the lunars have when solars are not gagged.Arynne said:I'm pretty sure Flicker is seriously considering staging an intervention. Because she was trying to salvage the situation, and it was working, damnit, and then the Solars had to open their big mouths...
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
Just two things:
1) I'd like to point out that if Fangs' idea have been rejected it was not only by Malek's doing, but also by others' silence.
2) The IC is going awesome, you all seem to see perfectly the distinction between the desires and intention of a player and of a character.
1) I'd like to point out that if Fangs' idea have been rejected it was not only by Malek's doing, but also by others' silence.
2) The IC is going awesome, you all seem to see perfectly the distinction between the desires and intention of a player and of a character.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
You're not wrong.
Kacie
One Thousand Club
Mirror is going to bring it up again later in the meeting if no one else does. She didn't feel like there was an actual decision made, and while she doesn't particularly care (right now), her Mate does.
She hasn't brought it up yet because the conversation turned to Zenjo, which seemed less controversial and gave people a chance to calm down.
Just as a heads up for the rest of you.
She hasn't brought it up yet because the conversation turned to Zenjo, which seemed less controversial and gave people a chance to calm down.
Just as a heads up for the rest of you.
Feantari
Water Sprite
*nod* The intent was to start with the easiest thing and work down the list from there to get everyone familiar with writing things down and hopefully avoiding the discussion devolving again.
Feantari
Water Sprite
Its going to take at least 10 pages of IC to sort this all out though. :-P
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
BTW, I'll be writing my post for the written part of the test ( 
) tonight.
) tonight.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
I have no problems with it, but you guys may want to move some of the burden to the OOC.Feantari said:
cyl
Creepy smile
Well IC or OOC there is debate to be held anyway.
Feantari
Water Sprite
Is Midboss still around? I sometimes see his name at the bottom of the page, but haven't seen a post in awhile. Come baaaack Midboss.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Might be a good idea. We've already exerted our personalities on the scene and I think the defining conflict in the scene has already passed. We might be able to speed it up and get to the next by going OOC with the rest.xarvh said:
Feantari
Water Sprite
Well.. more deferred to later than passed.. but either way. Some of it will be tedious to play out IC and some of it would probably offer chances for some characters to make important points IC.
Argis is sort of seeing this scene as a chance to finally step up and join the debate as it were. He's often been mr. in the background person with the occasional smooth things along comments, but not often actually sticking his opinions on the floor. He finally has a normal conviction and a strong sense of duty to cross, and he's managed to get this far without getting eaten by one of you so... :-P
Argis is sort of seeing this scene as a chance to finally step up and join the debate as it were. He's often been mr. in the background person with the occasional smooth things along comments, but not often actually sticking his opinions on the floor. He finally has a normal conviction and a strong sense of duty to cross, and he's managed to get this far without getting eaten by one of you so... :-P
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Then, it take mine back. If there's a chance to learn more about the characters and enjoy RP, then I'm in for IC.
xarvh
Malevolent Entertainer
The practical thing would be to:
1) Set aside IC egos.
2) Have the discussion about what to do both IC and OOC, so that you can switch to OOC when things are rough and back to IC when you want the drama.
Also, I'm not in the habit of giving IC suggestions, but WTF, I am the main spectator of this game!
The ideal choice for first-among-equals would be Argis.
He is the odd one, and the sorta-less-powerful one, the one that everybody knows since the beginning and one without any conflicts nor special ties with anyone.
He's throat-deep in the organization of Cross, not a threat to anyone's power PLUS the Lunars can enjoy seeing a Terrestrial call around the Solars (the Empress is gone, someone has to keep up the circus...)
Rhapsody would also be a great choice, but as much as I'd love to see Wlf playing it, she's a newcomer AND a zealot that nor the PCs not Wlf knows enough already.
Just my 2c.
1) Set aside IC egos.
2) Have the discussion about what to do both IC and OOC, so that you can switch to OOC when things are rough and back to IC when you want the drama.
Also, I'm not in the habit of giving IC suggestions, but WTF, I am the main spectator of this game!
The ideal choice for first-among-equals would be Argis.
He is the odd one, and the sorta-less-powerful one, the one that everybody knows since the beginning and one without any conflicts nor special ties with anyone.
He's throat-deep in the organization of Cross, not a threat to anyone's power PLUS the Lunars can enjoy seeing a Terrestrial call around the Solars (the Empress is gone, someone has to keep up the circus...)
Rhapsody would also be a great choice, but as much as I'd love to see Wlf playing it, she's a newcomer AND a zealot that nor the PCs not Wlf knows enough already.
Just my 2c.
Arynne
Salmon of Doubt
Also consistent with First Age traditions, as Flicker might recall. Everybody knows the tedious work of actually running things (as opposed to making sweeping declarations of policy and leaving the implementation to others) was always done by the Dragon-Blooded.