Fandom Avatar: Spirits Awaken

[Kiyoko Tomoe]

No emotion, no conflict... Sounds like a perfected war weapon in my opinion, not some blob without purpose. Also, lightning creation wasn't stated as possible to non-benders by me. I'm simply differentiating lightning and fire. Yes, they both require control of energy, but lightning requires the ability to balance both positive and negative, while fire requires the ability to manipulate positive energy. One could be capable of balancing out positive and negative, but not able to draw positive out of their body and surroundings. They might be able to regulate energies, but not draw them out of their resting position, which is how fire is created. Lightning, on the other hand, simply needs you to allow it to release itself, not release it yourself.

 

[Otakuyaki]

Hmm... This argument has convincing arguments from both sides, ya know?


The entire thing about being only able to produce lightning has a convincing reasoning, but there are still doubts in my opinion, there's a flaw, but it's not likely to occur. Most of these arguments are relying on what little canonical information we have on the lightning sub-skill, so this argument isn't really one that can be argued well. :| I have an opinion & a couple questions, but I don't think it will matter enough, so I will refrain, plus I'm a bit busy, I think something is burning.

 

[NessieAlways]

I agree with Otakutaki...there's too little known of lightning bending to discuss it, but from what is known...generating lightning without firebending is impossible.

 

[BlackJack]

Im going to just say this and give my thoughts, I think people should master the main element then the sub element, thats why its called a sub element, it comes after mastering the main element. Its not like a BloodBender can just bloodbend instantly or a earth bender to lavabend without mastering earth bending...

 

[NessieAlways]

If there is an update with information saying that it can be done I'll gladly take my comment back, but until then I will not allow it.

 

[Otakuyaki]

ugh...


I set off my smoke alarm D:

 

[Kiyoko Tomoe]

In that case, how about I just drop the lack of firebending part and go for somebody with such peace and perfected control of emotions, they're able to almost fully bend lightning, and to somebody who doesn't know what they're actually doing, could look just like they're fully controlling lightning? I'll go into further detail if you'll allow me to as to how the process would actually work for "controlling" lightning.

 

[NessieAlways]

Not trying to be rude or anything...But I rather you not have a character like that...


I already allowed Blake who wants to teach the avatar a lesson, Fudo who has black fire, and Akari who is practically indestructible.


I can't allow you to have another character that has some perfected special ability. It's too much.

 

[Kiyoko Tomoe]

Actually, it's more like Blake's teaching the avatar to not give up and doesn't really have much on the actual strength side of fighting, just is knowledgeable enough to get by. Fudo has the ability to produce black flames, but can't control them in the least, hence the burning of his right arm. Akari, not really invincible. Proven by Opal's attack previously. Also, let me go into greater detail with the whole lightning special ability, just in case it might get you to reconsider.


The character would basically direct lightning through energy around them. Since lightning is created by the balancing of positive and negative energy, it would naturally be attracted to a point of balanced positive and negative electricity. By timing the control of external energy, they can direct, or "control" lightning, but only during times where energy is at high concentration, meaning around noon when the sun's energy impact is highest. Otherwise, the flow can only be directed in simple turns and such, and at night or when there isn't enough of an energy source, such as being inside a cave or the sun covered by clouds, they can only go as far as producing lightning and directing it as it discharges in a single direction like all other firebenders can do if they have lightning.


Also, for this character, I was thinking some kind of major weakness to balance out the high strength of the bending, something that would basically render them useless if they couldn't use their bending. Similar to how Toph was blind, so she could only see while able to bend. Perhaps a body that's cold-blooded, thus, the only sources of heat are the controlling of inner and outer energy to heat themselves, or external heat such as the sun? Either way, if you say no, then I'm fine on that. I'll jsut make a non-bender or an average-skilled earthbender, something along those lines of simplicity of a character.

 

[NessieAlways]

ugh...
I set off my smoke alarm D:

Oh no! Was there a huge smoke cloud? =D


 

Actually, it's more like Blake's teaching the avatar to not give up and doesn't really have much on the actual strength side of fighting, just is knowledgeable enough to get by. Fudo has the ability to produce black flames, but can't control them in the least, hence the burning of his right arm. Akari, not really invincible. Proven by Opal's attack previously. Also, let me go into greater detail with the whole lightning special ability, just in case it might get you to reconsider.
The character would basically direct lightning through energy around them. Since lightning is created by the balancing of positive and negative energy, it would naturally be attracted to a point of balanced positive and negative electricity. By timing the control of external energy, they can direct, or "control" lightning, but only during times where energy is at high concentration, meaning around noon when the sun's energy impact is highest. Otherwise, the flow can only be directed in simple turns and such, and at night or when there isn't enough of an energy source, such as being inside a cave or the sun covered by clouds, they can only go as far as producing lightning and directing it as it discharges in a single direction like all other firebenders can do if they have lightning.


Also, for this character, I was thinking some kind of major weakness to balance out the high strength of the bending, something that would basically render them useless if they couldn't use their bending. Similar to how Toph was blind, so she could only see while able to bend. Perhaps a body that's cold-blooded, thus, the only sources of heat are the controlling of inner and outer energy to heat themselves, or external heat such as the sun? Either way, if you say no, then I'm fine on that. I'll jsut make a non-bender or an average-skilled earthbender, something along those lines of simplicity of a character.

Even with a major weakness I think being able to "Control" lightning would be pushing it too far.


However, if you think I'm being biased or something I can open a poll and have everyone vote if I should allow your character or not.


I do believe in democracy so if you want the poll could be an option.

 

[Kiyoko Tomoe]

Well, I've got to go right now. Also, go ahead and hold it if you want, but I'm fine with the decision of no to my request.

 

[Otakuyaki]

Oh no! Was there a huge smoke cloud? =D

No no, everything is fine, though my frying pan isn't... ;~;


Just came back from dinner btw >.>

 

[NessieAlways]

Well, I've got to go right now. Also, go ahead and hold it if you want, but I'm fine with the decision of no to my request.

Well if you're fine with it then we'll leave it as is =)


Sorry about that but I need to keep things as fair as possible

No no, everything is fine, though my frying pan isn't... ;~;
Just came back from dinner btw >.>

Please join us as we remember the good times with our old friend.

You will be missed =(

 

[Kaine]

Heres my opinion on the science parts. Either go science, or go with energy. You cant have both.


In terms of science.


Part 1


The sun is at a relatively more stable distance to earth than the moon. Thus the difference between night and day would not effect a fire benders abilities. the distance is just not enough to effect their skills unless sunlight is what gives a bender their ability.


Support 1. This is proven by water benders. The mooons gravitation forces are more more "rough" so to speak on the Earth because it is closer. It causes the seas to change levels, so it makes sense that on a full moon, and especially when the moon is closest to the earth, this has significant impact on water bending abilities.


Support 2. This is also apparent because of Sozin's comet. IT, like the moon, came comsiderably closer to earth and only once every 100 years. It has similar effects as the moon, but even more serious effects because it passes trememdously closer than even the moon does.


Hypothesis. This goes to show how balanced everything is. Sozin's Comet is OP. it happens every 100 years and fire can be created everywhere. A full moon gives enhanced water bending skills, you you cant conquer the world with Ice and Water bending has been shown to also be a substancial support type skill with healing and defending..


As for the overpowered part of Lightning. From a science standpoint. Peace of mind can be achieved and lost at a whim. For a person to constantly be at peace would just be obscene. Children are always at peace, innocence is considered the purest form of peace. Why cant a child lightning bend?


Lightning kills a person when they are grounded. The act of zapping someone with lightning in that style, should technically, easily kill someone, but for a childs TV show it doesnt. 9/10 lightning strikes are fatalities. Also for lightning bending heres a question. If you cant firebend, how would you know that your skills are perfected enough to use lightning, create it, or even direct it? In theory, i agree, i think you could use lightning, but not fire, except that it would take years and years to perfect and like most martial arts, even if you couldnt used advanced firebending techniques, you would have mastered the basics.


And for the last part of my arguement. Why are you so obsessed with making a mary sue? Anyone can be overpowered, its how you use it that counts. None of the enemies in avatar where ever overpowered, except for the evil avatar. The fact is they were prepared to always be under fire so they caught their attacks off guard. I mean it wasnt the fact a human could take someones ability, its that he knew how to bloodbend in such a way, they lost their ability, Even after loosing his ability to bend, when he gained the ability to airbend, he already knew how to air bend. That takes time, study and practice. He was like 30 years old, maybe more.


Opinion. This is my opinion but each element has a represent of something. Water is Swiftness, Fire is Strength, Earth is Balance, and Air is Change. But lightning is its own. To me Lightning is Rage. Rage can never be controlled. Rage only destroys and devours and at most someone who has rage can only be directed to which the destruction will follow. This is Lightning. You may have a character who can control it, but at some point in time, Lightning will devour the user.


Opinion2: Also sub elements are never as easily controlled. Think about the sub elements. Ice, Lava, Lightning, Metal.


You never see Ice being used like earth bending. Why is this? It takes the same form? more often than not, a person mainly freezes and refreezes water to bind or defend yet we see earth benders float earth, but waterbenders not float ice? Only times you see ice used effectively is by masters who have mastered water bending. The same does for Lava. The most you see is waves of lava, pools are moats. The most exciting was bolins lava discus of awesome. But that was a move unique to him through practice. Simple observation shows he used earth bending to spin the object, and lava bending to heat it without melting.


Metal bending is the most advanced sub element we have seen, but also, Toph was a metal bending master, she designed and taught it. it was schooled to show others how to use it. Ice has never been shown to do this, and neither has lava.


So with all of those, it stands to say that lightning is the same. It's been around but the users of lightning know how dangerous it is so it is not openly taught. I dont ever remember Korra or Aang being able to use lightning.


So as it stands, I'm sure that lightning might being able to be used more greatly, but i also believe it would have utter consequences for being misused.


=/

 

[Otakuyaki]

Hmm... I thought they stated canonically that firebenders are stronger at day than at night, maybe because of the warmth from the sun? Guess maybe not?

 

[Kaine]

I do remember than the the power difference was pathetic. 5 inch flame instead of a 6 inch flame? I see the moon having more substancial effects on firebenders than the sun itself. Also based on the distance to the sun there would be like what a 3,000- 5,000 mile difference between night, but compared to Sozins commet, the day/night thing seens negligible

 

[Otakuyaki]

I do remember than the the power difference was pathetic. 5 inch flame instead of a 6 inch flame? I see the moon having more substancial effects on firebenders than the sun itself.

Ahahahaha xD


A firebender's flame size represents something else too.


( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Kaine]

Also out of that whole wall of text that i wrote, i basically said, "lightning should be bendable if there are equally, if not more consequences for having such a power" xD but it would sue considerable chi. I mean youa re literally generating it, and its highly refined fire.

 

[Kiyoko Tomoe]

In other words, you're a person whose opinion supports me should I go with weaknesses that contrast the power to make it basically the strength of a high-level firebender's flames and not more powerful...?

 

[Otakuyaki]

btw @Kaine


I like your profile pic.

 

[yoikes]

As for Fei, I prefer to let her stay in Republic City to help the rebuilding of the city and safe guard the President and his daughter.


Assuming that in ~3 weeks the story have progressed in a rather fast pace, I think Fei could join or greet the team at Zaofu

 

[Kaine]

@UltraYuseke Imma just like your post since i feel like i was poking a dead animal.


@Otakuyaki I agree with your Grumpy cat. its so cuyte. that face >:000

 

[NessieAlways]

For the sake of a friendly discussion =P


(This is taken straight from the Avatar Wiki page)


@Kaine


Part 1


The sun is at a relatively more stable distance to earth than the moon. Thus the difference between night and day would not effect a fire benders abilities. the distance is just not enough to effect their skills unless sunlight is what gives a bender their ability.


My Rebuttal


There is a difference of bending between night and day for both fire and water benders and doesn't have much to with the distance. The reason why the comet increases the power for firebenders has more to do because it's a giant ball of fire rather than the distance.


"A firebender's powers seem to increase during the day in the presence of the sun. Because of this solar sympathy, their powers are weakened at night and a solar eclipse can temporarily negate their powers entirely, much like waterbenders' powers are negated during a lunar eclipse."


" A solar eclipse has the potential to completely negate a firebender's power, which is the result of a direct connection between the sun and firebending"


"Aside from their main power source, the sun, firebenders also draw their energy from other heat sources, including volcanic activity, lightning, and passing comets, if they somehow become a heat source, such as Sozin's Comet, which ignites when it brushes the atmosphere."


Part 2


But lightning is its own.


My Rebuttal


Lightning isn't it's own element it a form of firebending. Firebending is channeling the energy within yourself and expressing it as fire. Lightning is channeling the energy being able to separate it between yin and yang and expressing it as lightning.


"Lightning generation, also known as cold-blooded fire, is a sub-skill within firebending that allows a firebender to produce lightning by separating the positive and negative energies internally, before directing it up through the arm and out the fingertips."


Part 3


To me Lightning is Rage.





My Rebuttal


Lighting is the complete opposite from rage. If lighting was rage then Zuko would have mastered that from the very beginning since he was full of it.


"Lightning is a pure expression of firebending without aggression. It is not fueled by rage or emotion the way other firebending is. Some call lightning the cold-blooded fire. It is precise and deadly like Azula. To perform the technique requires peace of mind."


"There is energy all around us. The energy is both yin and yang; positive energy and negative energy. Only a select few firebenders can separate these energies. This creates an imbalance. The energy wants to restore balance and in a moment the positive and negative energy come crashing back together. You provide release and guidance, creating lightning."


— Iroh to Zuko.

 

[Otakuyaki]

I like the way you construct your arguments. c:

 

[NessieAlways]

Why thank you! =3