At the Adventurers' Table

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Naw yer just sayin that *rawrrr*


But seriously, my thanks for the invite. That means something. But I would really feel out of place in such a game. Plus, I don't think I could afford the amount of time and effort it would take to properly see to it.


I'll still be here in Sharseya, though. So not far *woof*

 

[Sherwood]

Here is a question: will there be any other players for the new game besides those in this game?

 

[Purr]

O.K....


I've been working six-day weeks and will be indefinitely, I visited the gravesite of a friend today, I have a headache (thank you, hyperactivity), and Real Life in general has been better.  I'm trying to bring up what it takes to post in-game when I read this:

Oh, I uh, had a new character? Oh that's right! I did! Nearly forgot all about that *woof* Got two character sheets to fix, then.

Nothing personal, folks.  This just hit me the wrong way is all.  I'm sure Wolf doesn't even mean badly by it.  I'm just going to call it a night.


P.S. Sherwood, I'll try to answer your question tomorrow. I just need to find something else to do right now.

 

[Sherwood]

Ok. Get some rest. I'll be here tomorrow.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

[SIZE=inherit]This just hit me the wrong way is all.  I'm sure Wolf doesn't even mean badly by it[/SIZE]

That post of mine was meant to be a combination of a forgetful wolf play plus reference to how long it's been since I created the character. It doesn't mean I am upset about it or anything. Just that it, you know, a certain span of time elapsed. Like, as a fact. It's funny, a little. Maybe. Never mind.


When did I ever mean anything bad? *woof*

 

[Purr]

Heya folks!  I have a brain again.

When did I ever mean anything bad? *woof*

This is precisely the point I made to myself last night.  


I was in a sullen mood last night, nearly devoid of energy, yet not quite ready to sleep.  A painful headache didn't help either.  So when I read Wolf's post, I saw sarcasm and felt shame for not having Wolf's new character in the game already.  This, of course, is not what Wolf meant at all and I knew that then.  However, I realized that I had far too many negative emotions to me by that point in the night to post anything reasonable.  Still, I had told you guys I would likely have an in-game post up in the previous 48 hours, and since I didn't do that, I felt you guys should at least know why.  Hence the post. 


So, my apologies for all that.  Especially to you, Wolf.  I wasn't myself.  Or rather, this hyperkinetic disorder I've got got the better of me again.  


In related news, the darned headache cost me about 4 hours of much-needed sleep and I was tired and trying very hard not to be cranky today.  Still, I have some energy now and I'd like to share what I have in a positive fashion before I crash tonight.  =)


For example, Wolf, I echo Sherwood's statement.  Sci-fi might not be your thing, but I'll miss you in this new game nonetheless.  You're really fun to roleplay with!  I like the things you do with Leonard and it will be hard to imagine the Wayfaring Wanderers without him when your new character joins the story.  


Thanks for putting up with this thing I've got, folks.  =)


P.S. Hey, Sherwood?  Please direct future thoughts, questions, etc. to our recently-made Robotech Private Message?  I'd rather keep The Adventurers' Table free of clutter, if you know what I mean.  =)

 

[Sherwood]

Whoops.  Sorry about that.  I'll make sure to keep this thread for Sharseya stuff only.  And Dann, don't feel upset about having a bad day.  Be thankful that you have a good family and lots of friends that are willing to give you the space and time you need to get back to your good natured self again!  I sure am, on my off days.  Everyone has them, but you were smart enough to see it in yourself and make the right decision to act, not react, if that makes any sense.

 

[Purr]

Thanks, Sherwood.  =)

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Yeah. I know I've promised an update due certain time and failed to deliver. Repeatedly. Like sort of right now - except I didn't actually promise anything lately *woof*


At least as far as I'm concerned, no pressure. What with the game threads still being sorted out, busy summer season, and private matters I'm trying to resolve, I ain't too keen on regular RPing at the moment.


As for the new character, it's ok. Of course I would have liked to get posting as soon as I submitted the sheet, but look - that didn't happen, months went by, and I'm no worse for the wear. I do have my first and main character at my disposal and I've been having fun with him meanwhile, so it's not like I was put on a posting waitlist or something. Whenever you get around to introducing my new character into the game, it will be alright.


Sometime soon though, I hope... Before I come up with a third one! xD *howl*

 

[Purr]

Sometime soon though, I hope... Before I come up with a third one! xD *howl*

Ha ha ha!  Wolf, that was terrific!  I LOLed a few times at work reading this!  Insert Super-Like on your thread here!  =)


As for introducing your new character into the game, good Wolf, be careful what you ask for.  =)


Honor and fun,


Dann =)

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Glad I made you lol *woof*


Do you want me to post my character sheet already, or can I wait until the intro is complete? I'd like to wait.


There is also another matter which I'd like to bring up: Stand-in languages for Pathfinder ones. I know it's been up for discussion at least once, but I don't think we've reached a consensus. Or rather, not in the sense that I hoped we would.


See, I remember Dannigan saying that pretty much everything works for as long as the Storyteller and concerned players are able to discern the true meaning of words. I couldn't agree more. However, what we haven't agreed on (I think), is which language represents which. If everyone cares enough, I'd like that to be established so that we can improve the RP element while not posting conflicting information. And then at the bottom of our posts we can put spoiler tags with correct translations. That way IC chat sounds cooler, the Storyteller and affected players know what was said, and people whose characters don't speak the language used can remain clueless and RP their responses better.


Take for example my first reply in my new character's backstory thread.


I was thinking something like that. Unless the rest you consider the whole thing as too much of a hassle. In this case I've, after extensive research and lots of experimenting, linked Sylvan to Irish Gaelic and Infernal to reverse-lettered Latin (normal didn't sound hellish enough). I know Dann has been using something for Bria's Celestial but I can't remember if it was an actual language or if he made it up. The advantage of using a language from the Google Translate list is that any of us can say anything in it, consistently.


So whaddaya think? Just an idea *woof*

 

[Kaerri]

I'm pretty sure Bria's Celestial is something he's created.  I know the Elvish that he and I have been using (and I think Captain as well) is from Tolkien's Elvish.  (Why reinvent the wheel, eh?)


Personally, I read all the things anyway (unless I'm instructed not to), not only to know what's going on but to appreciate what everyone's written.  I'm careful to keep my characters from knowing something they shouldn't, of course, and I think I do a good job of it because I've never had anyone complain that I've used OOC information (or IC info they wouldn't know).  I know not everyone works that way, though!  I just have a brain that compartmentalizes well, I guess.

 

[Purr]

Wolf, hold up on posting Nivirea's character sheet.  You and I know what we need to know in Private Message and that's plenty good for me (and since that's true, the rest of you will have to wait to see it).  =)


Re: Languages.  No, that topic really never did finish up, did it?  Here are my thoughts:


1. Wolf is correct in that I honestly don't care what language you post (with few exceptions) in as long as your character's meaning is clear.  Without the meaning, the statement is useless and I'm not about to ask folks to go Googling up that sort of thing when I feel that information should be presented here by you already.  My own way of placing translations into spoilers is my way of saying, "Hey, they're speaking this language.  If your character knows it, then your character understands it.  If not, you as a player are welcome to read and enjoy it as long as you keep that information away from your character."  =)


Wolf's example of language-use in Nivirea's first post in "Off the Beaten Path" is terrific!  I love it! =)


2. Kaerri is correct in that I created what Celestial there is out of my own head.  I like the way it looks, feels, and sounds.


3. Substituting other languages for Pathfinder languages is kind of a fun idea.  I'm a little cautious here because I definitely don't want anyone offended over a language choice.  The big example here (and do pardon the pun) is the language of giants.  In my mind, this is, for the most part, the language of idiots and simpletons.  Sure, there are smart giants (stone, frost, fire, storm, and a few others) in Sharseya, but the vast majority of giant-blooded creatures are anything but scholarly (hill giants, ettins, ogres, trolls, some minotaurs both Highwindian and Bloodlander just for starters) and they outnumber the smarter giants big-time (there I go again).   =)


So, let's say I decide to use German as the language of Giants.  Something in me says, "Buddy, doing this implies that you think Germans are idiots and simpletons."  O.K.  Maybe when they're drunk, but that goes for all human beings.  So what language would be best to use for giants?  I'm thinking making one up here is the way to go.  I don't chance offending anyone, it's fun to make up sounds and words that define the language, and heck, what are the giants in my game (mind) going to do?  Complain?  Too many of them are too stupid to verbalize the complaint ("moron" this later)!  


4.  In a way, French (France-French, not Haitian) is already taken.  Some of you might remember that Captain Hesperus's Otiorin has a human grandfather who comes from a chivalrous land of elk-riding, crossbow-shooting knights.  In my mind, they have always spoken Common with a French accent.


Otherwise, I really like the idea using languages in-game.  Why can't Sylvan be Gaelic or Welsh or what have you?  Why not use Sindarin (Tolkien's Elvish) when speaking with Elves?  I say go for it as long as we (I at least) can tell what your character is really saying.  Thanks for revitalizing this topic, Wolf.


One last note.  Just in case it's not clear, I have nothing against dumb people in Real Life (on the contrary; everyone "rolls the dice" when you enter this life and it's definitely not your fault if you roll low).  


(Back to giants...)

Spoiler

I'm serious.  Some of my Giant-blooded baddies are so moronic they have to be reminded which end of a lit torch is the carrying end.  Remember when the Wayfaring Wanderers were rescuing Mamapaw from Garren and his ogre host?  Upon the ogres turn, I remember the "conversation" in my head went something like this:
 
Dungeon Master: O.K.  The big human fighter (that's the one with the shield and axe...) has rushed through your position and is now threatening you.  What do you do?

Ogre (shrieking joyously): UNDERWEAR!!

DM (hesitantly): Do what?

Ogre: Underwear!  Do I still have my smacker (greatclub)?

DM: Yes.  It's not like you suddenly dropped it.  

Ogre: O.K.!  I smack da human in his underwear with my smacker!!

DM (confused): Why?

Ogre (laughing uproariously): 'Cuz it'd be funnieeeee!  Hur hur hur!

 DM (facepalms): Just point at the d20 you want me to roll, you evil pinhead...
 

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

As for the stupidity, if you ponder this a bit more I think you'll find that there's no room for insults to be taken, really. I mean, the point is to choose a language that more or less represents the sound, flow and such of the language that it's standing in for. It doesn't have to be that German is a language of idiots, it's just that you are using the most basic, simple terms out of it. Your Giants talk like idiots because they are idiots - if they weren't, their language would be different.


When I posted for Nivirea, I chose her words carefully. I didn't just take a phrase she'd say in Common (English) and translated it into another language. Just like IRL I don't translate stuff I'm about to say from Croatian to English and vice versa when I am talking to English-speakers - I actually think in English. There's a difference there, if you think about it. Since she's fluent enough in her languages to be able to think in the, she will be saying the kind of things in the kind of way that the native speakers of those languages would say. Ugh. I hope I made more sense than it now seems...


Not sure if German is perfect for Giant. Perhaps... I dunno. It doesn't feel slow enough? Am I wrong? Do Giants tend to talk faster? It's like, if I had to choose a language for the goblins, I'd go with something that has a tons of short words because I imagine them screeching and chirping very quickly in their high-pitched voices. Just like Gaelic feels good for Sylvan because it feels like middle ground between Elven and Common/English. So... Elven used is Sindarin?


The only reason why I went with Google Translate languages is because they have a full vocabulary there, and it's very automatic. There's some great languages out there but they may not all have a working translator, which makes it harder to form phrases. Like the Black Speech, which might just be the thing for Abyssal. Or Orcish. Do we have Orcs in Sharseya? 


Elven - Sindarin


Sylvan - Irish


Infernal - Latin (reversed)


Giant - German?


... ... etc


I'd just like it if we could have a thread with a list of these languages somewhere, in the end. Just so we don't contradict each other. I'm sure we can agree on everything with a little voting and suggestions *woof*


The only exception I guess would be Celestial. If Dann is really making that up and someone else wants to speak in Celestial, they'd have to simply write it in English and we'd pretend it was written in actual Celestial words.

 

[Purr]

As your Dungeon Master, all this largely depends on what everyone in our group wants.  There are well over a dozen languages in use on Sharseya.  As far as German goes, my dwarves and I had a "talk" earlier, and they pretty much told me that if anyone is getting German as an in-game language, it is they!  "Noch ein bier!" ("Another beer!") and all that.  =)  Furthermore, I really don't mind continuing to make up the Giant language as I've done in previous posts.  


As for the rest, yes, Tolkien's Sindarin (not Quenya) Elvish has been around for decades (like other Tolkien-related things in Dungeons and Dragons games) and I like it's use here.  Somehow, I think The Professor would approve!  Also, Mordor's Black Speech is just fine for orcs (of which there are plenty in-game, just not in your current neck of the woods), but only orcs.  Black Speech was The Professor's tongue for all creatures that fell under Mordor's banner from Sauron on down (though the "lesser creatures" of that evil realm apparently spoke a "lower" dialect of Black Speech while Saruon, his Ringwraiths, and the other uppity-ups spoke a "higher" version).   Orcs and half-orcs in my game typically speak Orcish and Common.


Since it has come up, here is a list of typically-used languages in the parts of Sharseya your characters are (more or less) aware of.  This list is by no means definitive: Common (Averlundian), Common (Rhumian), Undercommon, Sylvan, Hobbit, Dwarven, Dwarven (Duergar), Elvish, Elvish (Drow), Gnomish, Goblin, Orcish, Giant, Draconic, Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, Ignan, Auran, Terran, Aquan, Felane, Druidic (Druids only), and Thieves Cant (Rogues only).  (I think that's all of the languages your characters should be aware of...)


Folks?  What are your thoughts?

 

[Kaerri]

I like the idea of being able to use real world languages to represent Sharseyan ones, and I think if we go with that we ought to have an agreed-upon list.  However, I don't want to have to do it.  I don't want to have to have Google Translate up when writing a post, or to be able to read someone else's.  I'm all for it if it's optional and the people that use it, put the translation in spoiler (the way Wolf did in his linked post).


I also think, if we're using Tolkien's Sindarin for Elvish (and so far we have been), we ought to stay away from the Welsh and Finnish it's based on.  There's plenty of languages out there to choose from besides those.

 

[Purr]

@Sherwood asks, "OOC: Can Luna make a Perception roll to identify just how these giants around her were killed, be it magic or slice and dice of a weapon?"


No roll necessary, just casual observation requiring only visual (non-physical) contact with the bodies.  Almost all of the ogres appear to have deep and localized burn marks (not wide-spread burns and charred skin from something like a Fireball or Wall of Fire spell that Luna has certainly seen, being a fire mage).  Some of the corpses are clutching their chests (signs of chest pain, breathing problems).  There are also large cuts (slash marks, not stabs) on some of the ogres.  


The fallen Formorian has signs of both types of damage and a third (fire damage - blast marks and blackened flesh on his head, neck, and shoulders which only improve his looks....).   Given Luna's Intelligence ability score, experience, and education, this is what she can discern without attempting a Heal check.

 

[Sherwood]

Thank you.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

I like the idea of being able to use real world languages to represent Sharseyan ones, and I think if we go with that we ought to have an agreed-upon list.  However, I don't want to have to do it.  I don't want to have to have Google Translate up when writing a post, or to be able to read someone else's.  I'm all for it if it's optional and the people that use it, put the translation in spoiler (the way Wolf did in his linked post).

Having to decipher words through online translators was never even a suggestion because it would turn the thing into a chore. And like you said, someone and sometimes having to use one in order to write a post can be enough by itself. I'm gonna keep doing things the way I am so far, everyone else is of course welcome not to roleplay languages in this sense if they don't want to. All I ask really is for there to be a list so that we don't contradict each other, and preferably that foreign languages are spoiler'd because if my character doesn't know them I don't want to either. I understand what you said, Kaerri, and it's commendable if you're fully able to make the separation of IC/OOC knowledge. I can too, but I'd rather not have to - if you understand. I feel like this small measure of ignorance can only help *woof* (hooray for finding a use for stupidity )


Here's my incomplete attempt at the list, using everything said so far *woof*


Language


RL Equivalent


Notes


Abyssal



Reversed English



Possibly another language, but as long as it's reversed.


Aquan


?



I read that elemental languages are the sound of that element.


Thus Aquan sounds like waves and probably can't be worded properly?



Auran


?


See note for Aquan.


Celestial


?



Since Dann is making it up, I don't think anyone but him and Kaerri


can use specific vocabulary.



Common Averlundian


English


The only language we all know! Yay!


Common Rhumian


Esperanto


Just a wild guess. Up to Dann.


Draconic


?


Icelandic? Arabic? Russian? Hungarian? Mongolian? Help xD

Druidi


?


None of us are druids, so we don't need to worry about this.


Dwarven


German


The dwarves "told" Dann this is in fact what they speak.


Dwarven (Duergar)


Dutch


The most similar language to German, so makes most sense.


Elvish


Sindarin



Already established. I just wonder where Dann and Captain are getting


the phrases from since I cannot find a single working Sindarin translator.



Elvish (Drow)


?


Is this a sign language? Otherwise, perhaps reversed Sindarin or Quenya?


Felane


?


Also made up by Dannigan? Since no player knows or speaks it, that's ok.


Giant


?


Dann can keep making this up since none of us is likely to want to speak it.


Gnomish


Italian


Distant relatives of the Fey, yet civilized. Italian sounds somehow logical.


Goblin


Thai


I dunno. Seems to have lots of short words, which is how I imagine it.


Hobbit


?



In LOTR hobbits speak Common (Westron) I believe. So for our game,


English styled as Old English? Or simply with a northern accent?



Ignan


?


See note for Aquan.


Infernal


Reversed Latin



I think reversed letter order makes it less familiar and more devilish


Alternative is regular Latin.



Orcish


Black Speech



I don't think this has a handy auto-translator or a rich vocabulary,


but otherwise perfect. Doh.



Sylvan


Irish


I love this for Sylvan. A hint of Elvish, yet different.


Terran


?


See note for Aquan.


Thieves Cant


?


Probably can ignore this, or let Dann and the only rogue player figure it out.


Undercommon


Welsh or Finnish



Since Elvish originated from this, it makes sense to be a language from which


Tolkien drew inspirations for our Elvish substitute.

 

[Purr]

Before I deliver another opinion on this subject, I'd like to hear from Sherwood and Cap'n?  What are your thoughts?

 

[Purr]

Neat list, Wolf!  However, I should offer a few corrections...  All this is not meant to nitpick.  Just a Dungeon Master dropping a few notes and facts since we've gotten this far into the conversation.


Druidic


?


None of us are druids, so we don't need to worry about this.


Note: Mamapaw is a Druidess and therefore speaks Druidic.  If any player decided to cross-class as a druid, they could also speak in a way that nearly no one else could easily figure out (kind of like when Mamapaw and Powerpaw mew, purr, and meow in their native Felane).


Dwarven


German


The dwarves "told" Dann this is in fact what they speak.


Actually, they said...

 As far as German goes, my dwarves and I had a "talk" earlier, and they pretty much told me that if anyone is getting German as an in-game language, it is they!

In other words, they don't speak German and never have.  To clarify, their position is this: if German were introduced to Sharseya, they'd like first dibs on it (but mostly, the Dwarves just don't want the Giants having it).  If asked prior to this conversation what my Morgandir (Mountain) Dwarves spoke, I would probably have pointed at Tolkien's Dwarven language (which is mostly kept secret from non-Dwarves in Middle Earth, but not Sharseya).  


Elvish


Sindarin



Already established. I just wonder where Dann and Captain are getting


the phrases from since I cannot find a single working Sindarin translator.



I don't use a translating program but a lexicon (and an awesome lexicon at that!).  Try http://www.eldamo.org/ ?  (From main page, Primary Content, Languages > Sindarin)


Elvish (Drow)


?


Is this a sign language? Otherwise, perhaps reversed Sindarin or Quenya?


In Sharseya, Drow Sign Language is exactly that - a silent version of the Drow language (just as American Sign Language is to American English).  Each counts as its own language selection (for Linguistics purposes).


Giant


?


Dann can keep making this up since none of us is likely to want to speak it.


Many successful adventurers (player and non-player from Sharseya Tabletop) have learned and used Giant effectively (even if only to spy and listen).  If memory serves, Kaerri specifically chose this for Bren because Bren detests evil giants and wanted to have another edge against them.  He is not alone in this.  This has proven handy on more than one occasion as most Giants don't expect humans or elves to speak their language.  Dwarves are another story.  A short story!  Get it?  Ha ha!  Whoops!  *hightails it in fear as his own Dwarves chase him*


Hobbit


?



In LOTR hobbits speak Common (Westron) I believe. So for our game,


English styled as Old English? Or simply with a northern accent?



Tolkien's Hobbits do indeed speak Westron in LotR, but Sharseyan Hobbits (halflings) have their own language.  Halflings have enjoyed their own language since 1st Edition Dungeons and Dragons, hence my use of it here (they also used to have infravision - boy, was that nice to have around!).  


Sylvan


Irish


I love this for Sylvan. A hint of Elvish, yet different.


I agree.  =)


Thieves Cant


?


Probably can ignore this, or let Dann and the only rogue player figure it out.


Thieves Cant is largely a method of speaking known only to Rogues.  It counts as its own language because it's basically a secret code of sorts used by Rogues regardless of alignment, organization, or educational or racial background.   The clever-minded really get serious mileage out of this way of communicating.


Undercommon


Welsh or Finnish



Since Elvish originated from this, it makes sense to be a language from which


Tolkien drew inspirations for our Elvish substitute.



Surface Elvish has nothing to do with the Undercommon language as (in Sharseya).  There are a bunch of Underdark races (Pech, Umber Hulks, Mind Flayers, Dark Creepers, Drow, Duergar, and lots more) that have been using Undercommon for ages.  All of the aforementioned races use it in one way or another to communicate as, unlike the surface world, most other creatures down below often do not elect to learn non-native racial languages and therefore often rely solely on Undercommon (even if only as a barter language).


=)

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Druidic is Gaelic.


Thieves' Cant is, as Dann says, not so much a defined language, but a combination of verbal inflections, hand signals, drawn markings and so on that can be used in a public place to inform other thieves of some secret intent without the general public aware.


Giant cannot be spoken by medium or smaller creatures without the use of a tuba.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

That's a neat bunch of helpful comments, Dann, but I don't see any tangible language suggestions (where applicable)!


Captain I believe Gaelic is a widee term for several languages, narrowed into Irish Gaelic, Welsh Gaelic... (possibly others?)


Oh and as for the dwarves, that's exactly what I meant. Not that they have been using it all this time, because that makes no sense, but that if it were in use, they're the ones that would have it as their stand-in language *woof*

 

[Captain Hesperus]

Sorry, I didn't realise you meant Irish Gaelic.


As for Draconic, to be honest, I always imagine the dragon language from Skyrim whenever I think back on the group's encounter with a dragon. The sharp-edged words and sibilant phrases seem to suit the snake-like tongue of a dragon.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Yes! Dovah-tongue! Like so: FUS-RO-DAH!!!


Except it has very few words - compared to fully developed real world languages - so one would have to be selective/creative in order to communicate properly.


But I'm all for it. Good idea, Cap'n *rawrrr*