What's your favorite Exalt type (and why)?

[Joseph]

I think Marquis' main point was that his opinion was aggressively put down.  I'd sympathize with his reaction.  
Cmon guys, it doesn't hurt to have more people interested in this forum.

I am all for having more people interested in this forum, I really am.  The caveat, of course, is that anyone who would be upset enough to LEAVE the forum after a discussion like this probably wouldn't be too happy here in the long run anyway.


I have no desire to see Marquis leave our forum.  Hopefully he can understand our aggressive argumentation and discussion habits aren't meant to make people feel bad or encourage him to leave, but simply part of our idiom.  If he (and people like him) can get past that, then I'm sure they'll make excellent additions to the forums.  If they cannot, they wouldn't have been happy here in the long run, because we don't tend to censor ourselves to protect feelings.


No reason to deceive him into staying through false treatment.  He's an adult, and he can decide whether or not our at times caustic means of discussion outweigh the benefits of the resources we provide.

 

[Persell]

Well the last few posts were interesting but I just though that I would chip in that the Dragon-Blooded are far and away my favourite type of Exalted with Solars sitting in a very distant second place


As to the Aspect/Caste thing. I think that whereas a Caste is something that you are chosen to enter based on previous skills it seems to be more limiting than an Aspect. If you are Dawn Caste, you are a warrior, to a greater or lesser extent, that's what you do: club stuff. Because they are something you are chosen for based on previous proclivities they are more prone to causing shoehorning of concepts than Aspects.


An Aspect on the other hand is something that you are born into and while it does influence many aspects of you character, even including your natural talents, not all Fire Aspects need to be soldiers, or even particularly aggressive. An Aspect is something that influences you rather than defining you


That is just my personal interpretation of course and I acknowledge that. Other reasons I enjoy playing Terrestrials is that I like the elemental 'flavah' of their charms, I like the idea of being naturally far weaker and yet in some ways every bit as useful to a mixed group as the Dawn who could kill me four times over in a single turn.

 

[Andrew02]

There's not a whole lot of difference between Demetheus and Panther. Both pugilists out kicking ass for goodness. A lot of the Night Caste characters in Castebook: Night could have easily just been Dawns with a number of skill points in the Night abilities.


But, could you elaborate on your point of view? Aspects have basic behaviours because they are born a certain way. If you're a lost egg, you get the most freedom, but there's still things you have to do because you're born a certain aspect. If you're from Lookshy, there's more obligations placed on you, and if you're a Dynast, your Aspect determines a whole lot.

 

[Persell]

I'm finding it quite hard to clearly describe what I mean, my command of the English language is weak! :roll:


Basically what I mean is that because Dawn are selected for their physical prowess this limits their concepts, they must have been a fightey-type or they wouldn't have been Chosen. A Fire Aspect DB however (The most martial aspect, hence the comparison) does have certain inclinations, but they can still choose their own path, be a sorceror or whatever with no combat skills at all. I'm aware that there's a sorcerous Dawn, but her skill is still secondary to her combat prowess.


I'm not sure if that's clear but I think you might be able to get my meaning

 

[Andrew02]

I believe I understand what you mean. I do not totally agree, but I do not totally disagree.

 

[Joseph]

I don't think what you're saying is correct.


Sure, a combative individual is more LIKELY to be chosen as a Dawn, but an intellectual individual who has the POTENTIAL to be, say, a great general and fighter but both isn't one and doesn't desire to be one could be chosen as a Dawn too.  He'll always have that potential, but he might choose a different path for himself; that's allowed, after all.


Likewise, a Fire Aspect is going to have natural inclinations due to his heritage towards certain behaviors and competencies.  He can just as easily select other ones, but his potential lies in a certain direction.  


In both cases, you get to choose who you are.  Your Caste or Aspect doesn't force you to be anything, and you can reject being a traditional Dawn just as easily as a traditional Fire Aspect.

 

[Marquis]

Is there anything that sets down exactly what determines a DB's aspect?


I see a lot of problems with this system, because clearly they are not born exalted, but neither are they individually selected like solars are. They are born mortal with the potential to exalt which, if they are going to exalt, doesn't usually occur until they around 12-14yrs old (If I remember correctly). Aspects, however, can skip generations. The exalted son of a Fire aspect won't necessarily be a fire aspect himself. However, breeding increases a childs chances of exalting...meaning that the exaltation is, to a certain degree, hereditary from parent to child. So does their blood determine their predisposition towards certain abilities and behaviours, pre-exaltation? Or does the exaltation unlock their potential in a certain area? I suppose a lot of this is a sort of "nature vs nurture" question. Dragonbloods, although I really enjoy them, seem fairly vague in this department. Heredity clearly plays a key, but the fact that traits can skip a generation or more shows that there is an element of randomness, of chance. I suppose the higher the breeding, the less randomness factors in because their blood is closer to being pure. So the question is, was a Fire Aspect a fire aspect even before he/she exalted? Since, unlike solars, Dragonbloods carry their exalted potential with them from birth.

 

[Flagg]

Heredity clearly plays a key, but the fact that traits can skip a generation or more shows that there is an element of randomness, of chance.

Not that anything so prosaic would exist in the Exalted universe, but it sounds a lot like genetics.


-S

 

[Marquis]

Heredity clearly plays a key, but the fact that traits can skip a generation or more shows that there is an element of randomness, of chance.

Not that anything so prosaic would exist in the Exalted universe, but it sounds a lot like genetics.


-S

sounds about right to me. Though I have a hard time seeing dragonblooded students sitting through AP Biology in Primary Academy....maybe at the Heptagram though.... hmmm...is there a dragonblooded equivalent to the Tremere's blood magic in Vampire?

 

[Flagg]

Though I have a hard time seeing dragonblooded students sitting through AP Biology in Primary Academy.

I think they'd view it more as a matter of theology than of science. IIRC, there is no surefire formula for predicting exaltation.


According to Immaculate dogma, it occurs when a soul has reached reincarnation-induced perfection. Then again, much of what the IO says is a load of crap.


-S

 

[Persell]

Is there anything that sets down exactly what determines a DB's aspect?
I see a lot of problems with this system, because clearly they are not born exalted, but neither are they individually selected like solars are. They are born mortal with the potential to exalt which, if they are going to exalt, doesn't usually occur until they around 12-14yrs old (If I remember correctly). Aspects, however, can skip generations. The exalted son of a Fire aspect won't necessarily be a fire aspect himself. However, breeding increases a childs chances of exalting...meaning that the exaltation is, to a certain degree, hereditary from parent to child. So does their blood determine their predisposition towards certain abilities and behaviours, pre-exaltation? Or does the exaltation unlock their potential in a certain area? I suppose a lot of this is a sort of "nature vs nurture" question. Dragonbloods, although I really enjoy them, seem fairly vague in this department. Heredity clearly plays a key, but the fact that traits can skip a generation or more shows that there is an element of randomness, of chance. I suppose the higher the breeding, the less randomness factors in because their blood is closer to being pure. So the question is, was a Fire Aspect a fire aspect even before he/she exalted? Since, unlike solars, Dragonbloods carry their exalted potential with them from birth.

it does say aspect is based on the blood which is why the houses are elementally aligned - they started out as all being from those elements- it does also say in the dragon blooded book that there has been so much intermarrying between the houses that the blood is pretty mixed up and so there's all elements within the houses - i'd probably personally treat it like how the god blood work - Parent with the Highest Permanent Essence determines aspect - randomly determined if equal.


thus you get that potential for breeding better dragon bloods, but with the potential for unexpected outcomes as well

 

[Maryuoh]

No character with a history exists outside of a social context.  However, given the way you are using the word, you clearly CAN have Lunars and Solars that exist in a social context, and further can have Terrestrials that lack social context as you seem to mean it: they are called Lost Eggs.
What you're describing isn't fundamental to Terrestrial Exalts.  It can be a feature of any Exalt, and it can be a feature lacking in any Exalt.

But it's much more ingrained in Dragon-Blooded. Celestial Exalted don't all share a common heritage; most of the Terrestrials in Creation do. They're Scions of the Realm. They're part of a wide-reaching civilization with many tiers and niches, both amongst their fellow Exalts and the mortals, that is inherently died into their Exalted nature. A handful of Solars might have something like that, but it wouldn't be shared amongst all of them, and it requires a stretching of the Source material. Abyssals don't have this, as they're mainly recruited champions/soldiers, again without common origin. Even common destination is arguable in their case. Lunars sort of have this, although the Silver Pact is less compact than the Realm, less complicated and less numerous.

No, they have a world Sidereals have created for them.  There's a reason the elder members of the Scarlet Dynasty are COATED in long term Astrological Effects.  There's a reason the Immaculate Order is such a big deal.  There's a reason the Scarlet Empress was actually able to maintain control over even the Realm and it's few subsidiary states.  It all traces back to the Sidereal Exalted.

That's just incorrect. The Terrestrial Exalted created the world as it stands in this age. The Sidereals do not have the numbers or the power to do that kind of work themselves, especially not while staying hidden. You can argue that the Realm is just the Sidereals' tool for making the world as it is; in fact, I think you have argued that in the past. It's not really something that's been made explicit to my knowledge; certainly the Sidereals have the upper hand in this relationship, as they know that the Terrestrials exist, but the DBs don't know that the Sidereals do. But the two groups' interests also naturally overlap. It's quite possible that almost nothing would be different if the Realm had arisen without Sidereal manipulation behind the scenes. But at any rate, of their own design or no, the Terrestrials are the ones that shaped Creation into what it is.

A world that is rich with history and tradition and whenever a dragonblood does something, you get the idea that his/her actions will have consequences that will resonate amongst those around them, whether it be a small circle of friends, their house, or maybe even the entire realm.

You can just as easily have that feeling with Solars or Lunars, or LACK that feeling with Terrestrials.

Yes and no. They're incredibly different. Dragon-Blooded have an honest-to-God society; there's thousands and possibly tens of thousands of them. This actually makes it harder to impact the group in a meaningful way. It also means that there's something there to impact, and it means you have relevant precedent and tradition to look to. The dynamic is completely different in the Realm from what Solars go through; as a Dragon-Blooded, you're a Prince of the Earth, but you're also a member of a House with familial obligations, who at the same time has to respect the sovereignty of the Empress, the righteousness of the Immaculate Order, and in some cases the discipline and order of the Legions and Navy. Things are expected of you. Solars and Abyssals are mostly free to run around playing the hero/villain at will, the center of their own melodramas and swirling plots. The only other Exalts that really have a society instead of just a social club to affect are, again, the Lunars, but their society is much simpler, partly of their own choice and partly just due to numbers. Sidereals have the obligation thing going on, but they're not numerous enough to constitute a society; each individual Sidereal still makes up a whole entire percent of their population.

 

[Joseph]

But it's much more ingrained in Dragon-Blooded. Celestial Exalted don't all share a common heritage; most of the Terrestrials in Creation do. They're Scions of the Realm.

This isn't a feature of the Dragon Blooded, it's a feature of Dynasts.  You could theoretically play a Sidereal that had a virtually identical life on the surface, masquerading as a Terrestrial.  They do do that quite often, after all.

That's just incorrect. The Terrestrial Exalted created the world as it stands in this age.

False, the Sidereals did.  My proof?  THEY MAKE FATE.  


When I say the Sidereals made the world as it stands in this age, I mean they MADE it, from the Terrestrials ruling the Realm, to the gust of wind that passes you by in the morning breeze.  It's what they DO.  


Your love of the Terrestrials blinds you to this simple fact.  Sidereals are quite literally reality's engineers and programmers; the vast majority of what occurs in the world does so at their behest.

The Sidereals do not have the numbers or the power to do that kind of work themselves, especially not while staying hidden.

They don't need it, they have a legion of Celestial Bureaucrats serving them.  You're forgetting how Fate and Astrology work; Sidereals literally plan out day to day events.  THEY made the Great Prophecy, THEY directed the Terrestrials to rise up against the Solars, THEY engineered the situation such that the Scarlet Empress could remain in power in a stable fashion, and THEY did so, so much more.  You just never see it, because Fate is transparent.  Did you even read the Sidereals book?

You can argue that the Realm is just the Sidereals' tool for making the world as it is; in fact, I think you have argued that in the past.

I argue FATE is the Sidereal took for making the world as it is.  The Realm is just one fairly small piece of the puzzle.  Remember, to the Sidereal way of thinking, trees have just as much a complex Fate as people do.  Yes, they use the Realm, but they also use natural occurances, social forces, and innumerable invisible features through the Loom of Fate to engineer reality.  


The Terrestrials are the figurehead rulers of Creation, but the Sidereals are the real power behind the throne.  This has been made clear since day one of Exalted.

It's not really something that's been made explicit to my knowledge; certainly the Sidereals have the upper hand in this relationship, as they know that the Terrestrials exist, but the DBs don't know that the Sidereals do. But the two groups' interests also naturally overlap. It's quite possible that almost nothing would be different if the Realm had arisen without Sidereal manipulation behind the scenes.

No, it's not quite possible, because the Sidereals literally have their hands all over the Dynasty.  The Sidereals book makes it clear that virtually EVERY SINGLE Dynasty member is COVERED in the maximum number of high powered Astrology effects.  


It's like saying "My car COULD have driven off and crashed anyway if I hadn't been in it."  In some weird, vague sense it could theoretically have happened in an alternate reality, but we both know it wouldn't have.  The Dynasty MIGHT have held together in some signficantly less effective way, but probably not even that.  Without Sidereal intervention, the institution of the Wyld Hunt simply couldn't have occured, because it never would have been efficient enough without Sidereals using Fate to pin point Solars.  That would have led to Solars coming back very quickly after the Usurpation, which in turn would have led to Solars probably taking back reality, or at least causing constant trouble.


No, there is no conceivable way things would have turned out anywhere near as well as they did without the Sidereal hand.   Don't let your love of Terrestrials blind you to that fact.

But at any rate, of their own design or no, the Terrestrials are the ones that shaped Creation into what it is.

False.  There are parts of Creation COMPLETELY devoid of Terrestrial influence.  No such place is beyond Sidereal influence.  You're just wrong, I'm afraid, because you forget the whole Bureau of Destiny controls Fate feature.  

Yes and no. They're incredibly different.

No, they aren't.  You WANT them to be, but they aren't.

Dragon-Blooded have an honest-to-God society; there's thousands and possibly tens of thousands of them.

No, SOME Dragon Blooded SHARE a society.  And some don't.  It's nothing about Dragon Blooded inherently.


Lunars also have a society, as do Sidereals.  They are smaller societies, but they are honest-to-God societies none the less.  Abyssals have a society as well; it has more Ghosts in it than Abyssals, but Terrestrial society has more mortals in it than Terrestrials.


You're obsessing things into more than they are.

Solars and Abyssals are mostly free to run around playing the hero/villain at will, the center of their own melodramas and swirling plots.

Um, Deathlords?  

The only other Exalts that really have a society instead of just a social club to affect are, again, the Lunars, but their society is much simpler, partly of their own choice and partly just due to numbers.

A simpler society isn't necessarily a less rewarding one, and I dare say their society actually IS NOT simpler, given the tribe to tribe nuances.  Their society is just as rich and probably MORE diverse due to that fact.

Sidereals have the obligation thing going on, but they're not numerous enough to constitute a society; each individual Sidereal still makes up a whole entire percent of their population.

Societies of less than 100 have existed and can exist, your point is moot.  Sideral society also encompasses dieties that work under them in the Bureau of Destiny, just as Terrestrial society encompasses mortals also.


Overall most of this is just in your head though.  Terrestrials didn't make the world the way it is, Sidereals did.  Terrestrials were just the tools of Fate in this instance, being the optimal choice for Sidereal motivations.

 

[Andrew02]

The exalted son of a Fire aspect won't necessarily be a fire aspect himself.

In contemporary Age of Sorrows, this has more to do with the fact that Dragon-Blooded bloodlines have intermingled through various political marriages or simple cases of male Dragon-Blooded having children outside marriage in the case of the Dynasty. In Lookshy, the only impetus is to breed for numbers, not quality (that is something I recall). In Lookshy, as well, I believe families are not so strictly defined as they might be in the Dynasty with the Houses (where House Cathak, say, has several minor bloodlines). Wild Eggs . . . they probably get their pick of mates.


Anyhow, the point is, the genetic pool is somewhat muddied. Originally, the Dynastic Houses were all of a single element. House Cathak was, at one point, all Fire. But because of alliances cemented through marriage, there are now Dragon-Blooded of all Aspects in House Cathak. This is the case for all of the Houses.

 

[Maryuoh]

 

Yes and no. They're incredibly different.

No, they aren't.  You WANT them to be, but they aren't.

How do you reconcile this with everything else you've said? You seem to want to simultaneously argue that the Terrestrials are much less important than other Exalts (true), merely figureheads controlled by the Sidereals, much more inept at everything than Solars/Abyssals and much less able to shape their own destinies. You then seem to want to turn around and say that there's no difference between Terrestrials and Celestials in terms of RP, and therefore no one could conceivably have a legitimate reason to prefer playing Dragon-Blooded. If the Terrestrials are weaker than other Exalts, that in itself becomes a legitimate reason someone can have to prefer playing them. If their society (which defines even those Dragon-Blooded that aren't a part of it; hence the term, Outcaste) is more or less complex, it is still legitimately different. The Dragon-Blooded setting is inherently different. There are tens of thousands of them, they nominally rule Creation; their line is familial, their powers weaker and of the Earth. You can argue what each of these specific things means in terms of roleplaying value; you can say that it makes them worse as easily as better. But the Dragon-Blooded have a setting that is unlike any other Exalted type.

 

[Joseph]

How do you reconcile this with everything else you've said? You seem to want to simultaneously argue that the Terrestrials are much less important than other Exalts (true), merely figureheads controlled by the Sidereals, much more inept at everything than Solars/Abyssals and much less able to shape their own destinies.

I did say everything on that list, of Dragon Blooded in GENERAL.

You then seem to want to turn around and say that there's no difference between Terrestrials and Celestials in terms of RP, and therefore no one could conceivably have a legitimate reason to prefer playing Dragon-Blooded.

This I both never said nor implied.  The reason Dragon Blooded aren't particularly different than Celestials in terms of roleplay is that roleplay is about theme, rather than the power level of challenges.  Some outcast Terrestrials taking over a small kingdom or some Solars taking over the Realm are dealing with the same themes on different power scales.  Thus, the roleplay is pretty similar, it's merely the numbers that are different.


That's really the only meaningful difference between a group of Terrestrials and a group of Celestials in play: power scale.  Any theme can be applied to any of them with equal ease.  You can have barbarian Solars, or even barbarian Terrestrials (some do exist), for instance.  I can't really think of any meaningful theme that can't be played out with any type of Exalt group.


That said, that's no reason NOT to play them.  I've never said Terrestrials shouldn't be played; I like playing them, myself.  Not because they're weak, or because they're social, or anything else -- those can be features of any Exalt, as weakness is comparative, and sociality is usually an option.  No, they're cool to play just because, quite honestly, they're cool to play.  That's tautological, but it's the truth.  Being the Exalted of the Elemental Dragons is just fun, shooting people with a bolt of icy air is cool, conjuring elemental magics is entertaining.  

If the Terrestrials are weaker than other Exalts, that in itself becomes a legitimate reason someone can have to prefer playing them.

I'm not arguing there aren't reasons to play them, just that the reasons you've given are dumb ones that can apply to any Exalt.  Terrestrials being weak, for instance, is a silly reason, as weakness is comparative to the scale of the game.  The ratio of power of a Terrestrial to their main villain can be identical to the ratio of power of a Solar to their main villain.  If that is so, both are "equally powerful" within the context of the story.  


There are good reasons to like Terrestrials, this isn't one of them.

 

[Marquis]

 Some outcast Terrestrials taking over a small kingdom or some Solars taking over the Realm are dealing with the same themes on different power scales.  Thus, the roleplay is pretty similar, it's merely the numbers that are different.
That's really the only meaningful difference between a group of Terrestrials and a group of Celestials in play: power scale.  Any theme can be applied to any of them with equal ease.  

Though I can agree with many of your arguments, I would disagree with this particular statement. There are some themes that simply cannot be applied to certain exalt types simply due to the restrictions placed upon them by their environment. Even exalts have their environment and therefore their lives effected by the forces around them. For example, the Wyld Hunt has forced the anathema to keep their identity a secret, preventing them from forming large social establishments (even the Cult of the Illuminated must act in secret) By that same token we can say the Dragonbloods have had their environment manipulated by the Sidereals (I would never deny this). So this simple fact means that no, not all themes apply to all exalts in general. Yes, you can have a story about a solar or abyssal finding him/herself trapped in the middle of a family fued, full of political backstabbing etc. But this family will never be a family full of solars where they are dealing with the their own exalted nature amongst a larger, tradition filled, obligation littered family of exalts (solars simply don't work that way, for a variety of reasons) This is a theme that can be applied to dragonbloods, however, (and often is in the realm anyway). I'm not saying that this storyline would apply to ALL dragonbloods. Clearly the outcastes and lost eggs live different lives. I'm simply saying that these more "dynastic" themes are a prime example of themes that couldn't be applied to other exalt types, simply because their current position in creation doesn't afford them that option.

 

[Andrew02]

I fail to see how having every member of a family being Solars is a theme, and not a plot device.

 

[Marquis]

I fail to see how having every member of a family being Solars is a theme, and not a plot device.

It's a theme if the story is intrinsicly about familial relationships and dynamics. Part of what gives a dragonblooded family it's dynamic is the fact that they are, as a family, exalts (although yes, I am aware that there are non exalted family members, however the dragonblooded core explicitly states these individuals are never treated as normal family and are often regarded with a certain sense of pity). This brings with it a lot of baggage that would not be there in a normal, mortal, family environment. A dynastic family saga simply couldn't exist without the exalted nature of it's members being a key theme (even if it were a story about all the non-exalted family members, it would still be an issue because they would be dealing with their lack of exalted status).

 

[Andrew02]

I'd appreciate it if you capitalize Dynasty when you refer specifically to the Realm. I'm tempted to make point in response to what you write that I doubt you even mean to discuss.


The theme of powerful, ruling family could survive Dragon-Blooded being replaced by any type of Exalted. The setting makes it dificult to suspend disbelief that such a family would not be Dragon-Blooded, not impossible. You do not make the exact nature of the family important enough for it to be a theme. Instead, the theme only shifts as you present it in a binary of Exalted/Not-Exalted.

 

[Halfdead Frodi]

Save for the minor problem that there are only a piddly handful of Celestial Exalts in Creation in comparrison to the Dragonblooded...and that Celestial Exaltation does not pass through family lines... sure, if you completely alter the setting so you can have your Solar ruling family of death and destruction, have fun...but that isn't how Creation works. No fucking to make Solar, Lunar or whatever... I suppose you could have a ruling half-caste family in a small area...but that's not the same thing...and they don't necessarily have access to much in the way of mates to keep their ruling family such for very long. And YES in Creation proper, any true long term dynatic drama with an all Exalted family does require Dragonblooded...unless you intend to somehow convince Lytek that your children, their children, etc should all exalt...and if you live a Celestial's natural lifespan, you could quite easilly have more kids than there are Celestial sparks in all Creation...and that's on your own, without considering your family in total. So the Dynasty, or something similar does indeed have to be Dragonblooded for you to have a family of Exalts in any meaningful way.

 

[Andrew02]

1) The total number of Dragon-Blooded is not a reflection of the total number of Dynast Dragon-Blooded. You have not demonstrated how this is a problem, though. You have asserted that the numerical difference is a problem (and I presume that you use minor facetiously), but have not provided anything to support this assertion.


I don't know how much larger Creation was prior to the Usurpation. You likely do as you used to show poor Sidereal stewardship of Creation was. Without the Solars and Lunars, the Dynasty can barely manage to hold more than the Blessed Isle and even then with the support of the Bronze Faction of Sidereals.


The only problem in keeping with the train of thought I believe you are that prevents Solars and Lunars from ruling a substantial portion of Creation now is the lack of a common set of values.


2) The Dynastic Dragon-Blooded reflect a ruling minority. How piddly are their numbers compared to all of the mortals of the Blessed Isle and controlled territory? It does not really matter that much.


3) The long lifespan of Celestial Exalts obviates in part the need for the numbers of Dragon-Blooded. The social charms of the Celestial Exalted enable them to create an infrastructure to support their rule that is functional and efficient, without the need for the purposefully flawed institutions of the Realm.


4) Imagine (and I know this is hard for you), if you will, that a ruling Solar adopts a new, young Solar as his 'son,' effectively making him family in every sense but genetic. It might be hard for you to conceive of, but family need not be strictly interpreted as simply blood relations.


4a) Imagine as well that the sons of heroes become heroes themselves in far too many instances to be discounted. Heroic enough to merit some kind of Exaltation. That's the thing about Celestial Exaltation, isn't it? The most transparent of the vague criteria seeded throughout the books is the potential for greatness or demonstrated greatness.


5) A dynasty in and of itself in no way requires it to be Dragon-Blooded. Marquis even acknowledged this. A dynasty is merely a succession of rulers in the same family or line. Mortals are quite capable of founding their own dynasties. The Leopard Seat of Harborhead seems like an example.


6) Time is not critical to play out a theme. Three mortal generations can have as much drama as three Terrestrial ones. This is simply in the hand of the storyteller.


7) "So the Dynasty, or something similar does indeed have to be Dragonblooded for you to have a family of Exalts in any meaningful way."


I don't find numerical superiority to be a universally neccessary to have the family of Exalts be meaningful.

 

[Halfdead Frodi]

I am not saying it is impossible for Solars or Lunars to rule, I'm saying that it is impossible for them to have a dynasty of Exalted, where you have a family where most or all recieve the Second Breath. Definately an important story element in a Dynastic chronicle...and one that is simply impossible in a story about the Celestial exalted. Certainly there could be a ruling family with a Celestial Exalt or so within it...but there is definately no certainty that any descendents within such would exalt. A Dynasty is not a succession of Solars who pass rulership onto a friend of theirs...even if that individual is like a son or daughter to them, it is not the same thing. A group of Celestials may be like family to eachother...but they are not in fact...and such feeling is unlikely to outlast the living members of the group... and without the guarantee of Celestial exaltation among their descendents, it simply at best becomes a club of Exalted that rule... not a Dynasty of related individuals who all take the Second Breath, or at least most do. A imple story element that is simply impossible to use with the Celestial Exalted without changing how Creation and Exaltation work.

 

[Bloody Teeth]

I'm going with Lunars. Mainly for the shapeshifting and wilderness stuff. I'm a sucker for werewolves too. I love me some Abyssal, Solar, and Fire Aspect too, but can always come back to the animals.

 

[Andrew02]

A Dynasty is not a succession of Solars who pass rulership onto a friend of theirs...even if that individual is like a son or daughter to them' date=' it is not the same thing. [/quote']
Again, please show some care. Capital 'd' Dynasty has specific conotations in the Exalted world, Frodi. Lower case 'd' is simply generic.


The only way this statement is true is if you allow yourself to be bound by an incredibly narrow definition of family. In fact, I think you only choose to go by this disgustingly narrow definition because it supports your point.

A imple story element that is simply impossible to use with the Celestial Exalted without changing how Creation and Exaltation work.

Impossible only if you choose to utilize a retardedly narrow view of what constitutes a family and a dynasty. Again, you're just being retarded to cling to your single example to prove your stupid pro-DB point.