Sorcery and the Yozis

If this is the pinnacle of people's arguing skills, concerning an extremely vague passage in one book and some hints in others.. then I wonder what would happen if we had something real to argue about.
 
And does the Great Curse take away coolness from the Exalted? Hardly. It's the same deal if you treat sorcery as something from the Yozis. Only, only a few people are corrupted by sorcery, but every single Exalt is cursed by the Great Curse.


And yes, the Empress was the most tricked of them all.
 
which makes the DBs the biggest suckers in the game


but more seriously, if the whole thing is a 'Kansas City Shuffle' where the exalts are purely dupes who through sorcery will reverse the entire primordial war ending, then YES it takes away from their awesome.


The curse it the price of victory, this scenario is more of a case of "you are all pathetic puppets like newbie Vampires"


YES the Yozi gave sorcery to the Exalted


YES Mra was part of it


YES the Yozi were under the Thumb of the Incarna at the time.


Go watch 'Lucky Number Slevin' for an example of what a K.C. shuffle looks like. If you decide that this is what sorcery is, then you remove the Awesome from ALL the exalts and make them no more cool than the Boss and the Rabbi in that movie.
 
Does it REALLY matter, one way or the other, just HOW sorcerery came about or at least ended up in exalted hands?


Be it something extracted from the Yozi Princes as part of surrender terms.


Or something that the exalts were 'gifted' with by the Yozi?


Or something that the exalts were given by the Incarna?


Or something that the exalts reverse-engineered after seeing it being used by the Primordials one too many times?


Or even something that the exalts just worked out? In that essence usage at the higher level tends to go along a certain way? And sorcery/Necromancy is it.
 
You seem to forget that it's not exactly all the Exalted who works with Sorcery. And it doesn't take any of their awesomeness away, in my mind. Instead of being theoretical puppets to the Incarna, they are theoretical puppets to the Yozis. The yozis slowly grow in power, their servants are released out into the world and often, demons go berserk or break free. It's not a coincidence that demon summoning is a lot less certain than charm use or elemental summoning.


Still, the Exalted can fight this. They can beat back the hordes of demons and win over the yozis again. It's just an even more epic plotline for your favorite heroes. And as  a way of getting back at the Exalted, the great curse has been a lot more efficient than demon summoning. Ruined the Solar empire? Check. Corrupted the Sidereal bureaus? Check. Two of the greatest institutions Creation has ever seen, and demon summoning was only the effect of it.


If Demon summoning had been so nice and sweet and okayed by the US himself, I think it wouldn't have been all like it's done today. And obviously, a sorcerer is not a puppet just because demons gave him the power once upon a time in history. He just trafficks with corrupted power, not power that controls his entire being, that is rather obvious.


And a sidebar in the sorcery book ( 2nd ed ) even states that you -take- the power from the Unconquered Sun when you work sorcery, and he has no say in whether or not you can use it.


Blah blah.
 
Zaramis said:
You seem to forget that it's not exactly all the Exalted who works with Sorcery. And it doesn't take any of their awesomeness away, in my mind. Instead of being theoretical puppets to the Incarna, they are theoretical puppets to the Yozis.
Click to expand...
Ummm.....Exalts, by their very nature, aren't puppets - theoretical or otherwise - of the Incarna. That was the whole point of their very creation - that the Incarna had no influence over them. If the Incarna did have that power, then the Primordials would have just said "Call off your lap dogs."


That's my only point. All the other "Where did Sorcery come from?" bruhaha is left to each individual ST to decide as he or she sees fit.
 
Vanman said:
Zaramis said:
You seem to forget that it's not exactly all the Exalted who works with Sorcery. And it doesn't take any of their awesomeness away, in my mind. Instead of being theoretical puppets to the Incarna, they are theoretical puppets to the Yozis.
Click to expand...
Ummm.....Exalts, by their very nature, aren't puppets - theoretical or otherwise - of the Incarna. That was the whole point of their very creation - that the Incarna had no influence over them. If the Incarna did have that power, then the Primordials would have just said "Call off your lap dogs."
Click to expand...
We here at the exalted compendium are sorry to inform you that your post does not fit into zaramis' little world and therefore does not exist. He wills it so. Have a good day. This message will selfdestruct soon to not further impede zaramis' little world .


Have a nice and productive day.
 
My mistake. They aren't puppets to the incarna. They are neither puppets to the Yozis through sorcery, since obviously the sorcery does not allow Yozis to control them. But, I like the idea of it corrupting them, was what I was trying to say.


I made a mistake. Look at that, Safim. Now go hide in a corner and stop with your attempts at irritating me.
 
You are frankly not important enough to be target of any attempts of mine to irritate you. I merely use you for some cheap jokes, the fact that I can show how much of an self centered idiot you are on the way to my cheap giggle is just a plus.
 
I think I have only one thing to say to this thread.


dramallama.jpg
 
Zaramis said:
My mistake. They aren't puppets to the incarna. They are neither puppets to the Yozis through sorcery, since obviously the sorcery does not allow Yozis to control them. But, I like the idea of it corrupting them, was what I was trying to say.
I made a mistake. Look at that, Safim. Now go hide in a corner and stop with your attempts at irritating me.
Click to expand...
seriously, go watch lucky number Slevin, become enlightened, then come back to us
 
They likely are... drama llamas are a rare breed found mostly on the intrawubs.  :twisted:
 
I really don't get people who find the need to be rude to people they discuss with on the internet. These forums are rather pointless if we can't debate things without you insulting me, Safim. I'm the weaker man, or what ever you want to hear. I was wrong in this case, and Kremlin could be right.


I'm sure this gave you cheap giggles too, but the world doesn't exactly become a better place by being rude to each other. I apologized for my own attack in the other thread, and I hope you can do the same.
 
Me insulting you makes these forums pointless?


I think you are grossly overestimating your own importance and my influence on the other posters here.
 
Wordman understood. I exaggerated. Pointless for myself, because I dont want to visit these forums for my exalted needs if I know I will get insulted around every corner.


Less valuable for others, because insults and rude behavior drags down the general quality of discussions and provide nothing of value.


I take another opportunity to try to make peace - you have my apologies. I still hope to get yours.
 
Zaramis said:
Wordman understood. I exaggerated. Pointless for myself, because I dont want to visit these forums for my exalted needs if I know I will get insulted around every corner.
Less valuable for others, because insults and rude behavior drags down the general quality of discussions and provide nothing of value.


I take another opportunity to try to make peace - you have my apologies. I still hope to get yours.
Click to expand...
Zaramis, we cool a far as I am concerned... thought I do want you to see that movie, mostly so you can understand what i mean by 'Kansas city shuffle'


Admittedly I did do an extension on the KC shuffle idea... after you watch the movie and let me know I will suggest to you how the whole thing could be an Autochthonian KC shuffle
 
I think it was the fact that someone else than me said something to Safim. Wordman tends to have a lot of respect around here.


But.. Your mother thinks that solars are just for fanboys who can't stand the thought of playing at the bottom! And she's not afraid to yell it, either!
 
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