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Fandom Shirou Emiya's Smithing Shop - OOC

Xel said:
That's precisely why I hate them in RP. Because in a normal holy grail war there's nothing to referee and so their existence requires something else, like the Beast, which I also hate because they just exist to mess up the proper servant/master teams. Then this is made worse when beast/ruler aren't owned by the GM because when given to another player they get unnecessary amounts of screen time and inject themselves where they shouldn't. Which is understandable, this is their only character and they want to RP, but it means you have a referee out on the field playing alongside the players because they're bored.

So all in all I've always despised the ruler/beast thing because I just feel it needlessly steps on people's toes. Ruler exists for no other reason than to fight beast, and Beast exists for no other reason than to be ignored because nobody wants to deal with them but they have to deal with them because they can't just ignore them.

TL; DR I'm just not a fan of ruler/beast in Fate RP.
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I'd have to disagree. Looking back at the last five holy grail wars, one can notice a lot of real stupid shit happening because of people doing stupid shit.

I'd say Ruler is there to stop shit like the corruption of the grail, mass murder which could reveal the existence of magi, and generally help the church overseer handle problems. That way, stuff like, I don't know, the church overseer being murdered by one of the masters, or worse, the church overseer being the one fucking everything up would be far less likely.

Besides, hating Ruler would also mean you should hate the church overseer, and the whole "go to the church to not be murdered" because that isn't in the basic idea of Fate either.
 
Dalamus Ulom said:
I'd have to disagree. Looking back at the last five holy grail wars, one can notice a lot of real stupid shit happening because of people doing stupid shit.

I'd say Ruler is there to stop shit like the corruption of the grail, mass murder which could reveal the existence of magi, and generally help the church overseer handle problems. That way, stuff like, I don't know, the church overseer being murdered by one of the masters, or worse, the church overseer being the one fucking everything up would be far less likely.

Besides, hating Ruler would also mean you should hate the church overseer, and the whole "go to the church to not be murdered" because that isn't in the basic idea of Fate either.
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But that's exactly the point. What you said right there is precisely why I hate Rulers. Because it's like what Godhowsae just posted. If they play the role properly then it's fine. The problem is when playing the role properly there's literally nothing to do. The Grail doesn't care about those stupid things. The grail could not care less about mass murder, or corruption, or the revelation of magic. The grail itself simply doesn't care. These are all rules put in place by the association, not the grail. The overseer is in charge of enforcing those, ruler is in charge of enforcing the grail's rules. And the grail has no rules against any of those things.

So what you end up with is a ruler being played improperly and enforcing the rules set in place by the association, which simply does nothing other than cockblock players trying to roleplay. Imagine F/Z or FSN or F/SF if Ruler ran around stopping everything. "Oh, sorry caster, you can't do your grail shenanigans because ruler stops you. So there's literally no plot in UBW." "Sorry caster, no eldritch horrors, ruler said no. So there's no big climatic battle or anything."

Your very post is exactly why I absolutely hate having ruler in a fate roleplay. Because those are things ruler SHOULDN'T do anything about, and yet they always do.
 
Dalamus Ulom said:
I'd have to disagree. Looking back at the last five holy grail wars, one can notice a lot of real stupid shit happening because of people doing stupid shit.

I'd say Ruler is there to stop shit like the corruption of the grail, mass murder which could reveal the existence of magi, and generally help the church overseer handle problems. That way, stuff like, I don't know, the church overseer being murdered by one of the masters, or worse, the church overseer being the one fucking everything up would be far less likely.

Besides, hating Ruler would also mean you should hate the church overseer, and the whole "go to the church to not be murdered" because that isn't in the basic idea of Fate either.
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Ruler only acts in the interest in the grail, so things like mass murder shouldn't be on their to-do list. Ruler doesn't give a shit about the rules magi put in place.
 
Godhowsae said:
Ruler only acts in the interest in the grail, so things like mass murder shouldn't be on their to-do list. Ruler doesn't give a shit about the rules magi put in place.
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I mean, I doubt any ruler or saint would simply just allow it. But if there was someone like Ivan the Terrible summoned as Ruler, I could see them only acting to protect the grail.
 
Dalamus Ulom said:
I mean, I doubt any ruler or saint would simply just allow it. But if there was someone like Ivan the Terrible summoned as Ruler, I could see them only acting to protect the grail.
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That's the problem. Ruler is SUPPOSE to be an impartial referee and yet 100% of the players who play ruler inject themselves under justification like that. "I'm a holy saint I wont let you do this". But then they aren't an impartial referee. Ruler SHOULDN'T interfere and if they did interfere the grail likely would de-summon them for not doing their job.
 
Dalamus Ulom said:
I mean, I doubt any ruler or saint would simply just allow it. But if there was someone like Ivan the Terrible summoned as Ruler, I could see them only acting to protect the grail.
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They would allow it. As far as the war goes they are impartial. As long as it is not a threat to the concept of the grail war itself. I could go murder an arena full of people and Ruler shouldn't interfere. The overseer is another matter entirely though.
 
Hm. Well Suleiman did Conquer Hungary so it could've been him.

Alright so he is from Buda and an enemy of Suleiman's father.
 
So who all's identities are now known? Berserker, Assassin, Lancer, Saber, Archer, Archer, and now Ruler? Just leaves Caster, Rider, and Saber right?
 
Xel said:
So who all's identities are now known? Berserker, Assassin, Lancer, Saber, Archer, Archer, and now Ruler? Just leaves Caster, Rider, and Saber right?
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I don't know who anyone is, and only one person has guessed who Ruler is correctly.
 
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