Keychain #281-285

I think it's more that the sacrifice has to be significant in character. I mean, it's one thing to say, "Oh, I sacrifice a 3 dot artifact to the God of Sorcery," it's another thing entirely to have said 3 dot artifact have significant history and backstory for your character.
 
It pretty specifically states that the Sacrifice has to be of significance to the character. How significant depends on the Circle. Loosing some exp and time is not significant in any real way for an Exalt. Also, it is not in theme for Exalted at all. There is nothing epic about it.
 
jeriausx said:
It pretty specifically states that the Sacrifice has to be of significance to the character. How significant depends on the Circle. Loosing some exp and time is not significant in any real way for an Exalt. Also, it is not in theme for Exalted at all. There is nothing epic about it.
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There's something epic about finding a way to cheat the cosmos and the Yozi out of their power without giving up anything tremendously major for it.
 
It's not epic if it doesn't take effort. You could take "avoiding the price of sorcery" and make it into something epic, but by the time you were done you would have had to take more trouble than if you'd just done paid up.


Nobody was ever a hero for doing something easy.
 
Jukashi said:
It's not epic if it doesn't take effort. You could take "avoiding the price of sorcery" and make it into something epic, but by the time you were done you would have had to take more trouble than if you'd just done paid up.
Nobody was ever a hero for doing something easy.
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Jeremy Clarkson, James May, a camera/support crew and several heavily modified Toyota pickup trucks would like to disagree with you there.
 
I don't think I could actually let myself make such a cheap sacrifice as a player though... I'd just feel dirty. The Five Ordeals aren't there as something to drag yourself through before going "ding, sorcery!" . They're there to roleplay, and have fun with. If you don't want to do that, then maybe sorcery isn't for you. Or just start with it.
 
A question, actually - if a prior incarnation of yours has already taken the Trials, do you need to do them again?
 
...you know what would be awesome....if her son was a GSP. Just cuz. Imagine the look on her face.
 
jeriausx said:
...you know what would be awesome....if her son was a GSP. Just cuz. Imagine the look on her face.
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I still don't understand what the GSPs are. But isn't her son automatically slated to become a Sidereal?
 
merle said:
jeriausx said:
...you know what would be awesome....if her son was a GSP. Just cuz. Imagine the look on her face.
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I still don't understand what the GSPs are. But isn't her son automatically slated to become a Sidereal?
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Green Sun Prince, the Infernal Exalted.


And that would be the implication that Aria made. Not nessessarily the truth.
 
jeriausx said:
Since when did the Yozi care about destiny? :twisted:
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They don't, but an impending Exaltation cannot be 'trumped'.


A Dynast's baby who rolled for Exaltation as a Terrestrial cannot Exalt as one of the Chosen of the Sun by being badass, nor may she Exalt as a Chosen of Luna by being a survivor against the odds, nor may she be Fated for Sidereal Exaltation. She may not be shoved into a Monstrance of Celestial Portion and be made into an Abyssal (though of course, she may be made a corpse,) nor would she be an eligible target for an Infernal Exaltation; if the Demon tried, it would probably get fried and the Shard flown back to Lilith. You will become a Terrestrial Exalt, even if it's only because you were attacked and were forced to Exalt or Die.


The same goes for Sidereal Exaltations. They're assigned, and that's it. You can't become a Terrestrial because your parents were both Dynasts; to have been Fated for Exaltation as a Sidereal, you would've had to have flubbed your Exaltation roll anyway, even if your mother and father were both the Scarlet Empress with her Breeding N/A. You can't Exalt as a Solar through kicking prodigious amounts of ass, you can't Exalt as a Lunar by chasing down a tyrannosaur and chewing it's heart out after diving up it's anuscloaca and clawing your way into it's chest cavity, you can't be made into an Abyssal by grabbing a free-flying Abyssal shard in a moment of militant nihilism raging against everything, and you can't be made into a Green Sun Prince by having a Demon try to get as close as a second skin. You will become a Sidereal Exalt, Chosen of the Maidens, whether anybody likes it or not; even Great Malfeas-that-was cannot stop this. Of course, Great MTW could probably have splattered you and made you the shortest-lived Sidereal in history, but Malfeas-That-Is can't do that.
 
I once played an Abyssal that was supposed to have been a Sidereal. That was part of his reasons for turning coat to Heaven. Another character of mine was a Journeys who had to be Exalted without warning because her predecessor got offed in the deepest Wyld and she was the only one the exaltation could safely reach without getting lost.


I don't remember anything that suggests destiny-for-Exaltation being set in stone. If I recall, aren't a lot of GSPs "supposed" to have been Solars, but failed? I'm sure there's one canon Infernal who's described as having had a solar shard ready to pounce until he flubbed it. And what about the theoretical situation in which every human in Creation is Dragon-Blooded? The celestial shards wouldn't stop working; they'd start jamming themselves into kids before they became Terrestrials. What if the Loom of Fate stopped working altogether? The Sidereal shards would still be able to faff about by themselves.
 
The Yozi can absolutely trump an exaltation that is destined. The Yozi actively pick them. The Eaxltee doesn't ven have to agree to it. They'll exalt anyone they damn well please. Also, Abyssals could very easily work the same.
 
Very large forum thread on this on the official forums

Jukashi said:
I once played an Abyssal that was supposed to have been a Sidereal. That was part of his reasons for turning coat to Heaven. Another character of mine was a Journeys who had to be Exalted without warning because her predecessor got offed in the deepest Wyld and she was the only one the exaltation could safely reach without getting lost.
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In House-Rules Country, a great many things go. That said, by the RAW, this sort of thing is impossible.


Fated Exaltations cannot be trumped. This means Sidereal and Terrestrial Exaltations, both of which are decided at birth. Also, Shards can't get lost. They're cool like that.

I don't remember anything that suggests destiny-for-Exaltation being set in stone. If I recall, aren't a lot of GSPs "supposed" to have been Solars, but failed? I'm sure there's one canon Infernal who's described as having had a solar shard ready to pounce until he flubbed it. And what about the theoretical situation in which every human in Creation is Dragon-Blooded? The celestial shards wouldn't stop working; they'd start jamming themselves into kids before they became Terrestrials. What if the Loom of Fate stopped working altogether? The Sidereal shards would still be able to faff about by themselves.
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Solar Exaltation is not fated. It's spur-of-the-moment, depending on who's doing an epic act of Caste-suitable badassery at any given point in time when the Shard is free. If you have the opportunity for the kind of epic badassery that was suitable to a Solar, but chickened out, then you become like a beacon for an Infernal Exaltation.


The epic warrior who stands and fights against an army almost always dies a hero. However, sometimes there's a free Dawn Shard around, and he beats the army. And sometimes he says "fuck this shit", runs off the field, lets the army pillage his village, rape his woman and children, and burn his home to the ground. Then, sometime later, sometimes a Blood Ape or similar First-Circle demon descended of Malfeas will show up and offer that warrior the power to not have to chicken out again, and he becomes a Slayer. Sometimes that warrior accepts and gets turned into a Slayer, sometimes he refuses and dies horribly. (In very RARE cases, he might even get a second shot at a Dawn Caste Shard, Exalt as a Solar while the Erymanthoi is attacking him, resulting in Malfeas whining like a bitch.)


The same goes for the others; a potential Malefactor must back down from some potential act of epic Zenithry, a Defilier has to blow his shot at being a Twilight, a Scourge has to screw the pooch at being a Night, and a Fiend has to scurry away from a chance to be an Eclipse.


As for the theoretical everybody in Creation being a Terrestrial, that's easy. If you fail the roll to Exalt as a Terrestrial, you don't have a Fated Exaltation. The roll is made at birth, when you take the First Breath. If you make that roll, you will Exalt as a Terrestrial, and no amount of badassery can make you a Solar, no amount of survival can make you a Lunar, no chickening out can make you an Infernal and no torture can make you an Abyssal; you are a Terrestrial, you just haven't taken the Second Breath yet. If you don't, then nothing can make you Exalt as a Terrestrial - but sufficient badassery might put you in the ranks of Solars, et al.


And Sidereal Exaltations' choices have nothing to do with the Loom. They choose their own newborns at their whim, and from that moment on, that person is destined to be a Sidereal. No badassery, no survival, no chickening, no torture, etcetera - they cannot be made anything but a Sidereal. Once that Shard has made it's choice, it resonates on the Loom, which in old days meant Sidereal abduction of the kid to be trained properly so he could his the ground running once he was a Siddie, but if the Bureau of Destiny fell, there would still be Sidereals.

jeriausx said:
The Yozi can absolutely trump an exaltation that is destined. The Yozi actively pick them. The Eaxltee doesn't ven have to agree to it. They'll exalt anyone they damn well please. Also, Abyssals could very easily work the same.
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You are manifestly incorrect here. Someone has to Choose the Abyssal or Infernal Exaltation. They can refuse - they'll die, most of the time, but they can. And you cannot trump a Destined Exaltation.


Holden, would you kindly weigh in here?
 
What if a Siddie shard picks you, but you passed the Terrestrial roll?


/Standard disclaimer about RAW =/= LAW
 
I still have seen no actual reason for why a Infernal exaltation (or even Abyssal), which is specifically guided to a host by an intelligence, would be unable to exalt someone who was destined to be a DB or Sid. Because there isn't one.
 
What if a Siddie shard picks you, but you passed the Terrestrial roll?
/Standard disclaimer about RAW =/= LAW
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It wouldn't 'pick' you if you were to exalt as one of the Dragon-blooded. It doesn't knock the other shard out and take it's place.


Exaltation is something of an if/then statement. If you are fated to be a Sidereal, then you won't become something else. If you are not fated to be a Sidereal, then you might become something else. If you are something else, then you're already an Exalt and can't have two (or more) shards at the same time, or switch from being one type of Exalt to another.
 
jeriausx said:
I still have seen no actual reason for why a Infernal exaltation (or even Abyssal), which is specifically guided to a host by an intelligence, would be unable to exalt someone who was destined to be a DB or Sid. Because there isn't one.
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Then why couldn't a Yozi or an Abyssal insert an Infernal or an Abyssal Shard into someone who was already Exalted - say, a Lunar?


Oh right, because you can only be Exalted once. You are Exalted if you were destined to be a DB or a Sid, it just has not manifested yet. Frankly, any kind of situation which would result in a Yozi or Infernal trying to pick you would also be grounds to pop as a Terrestrial or Sidereal anyway.

What if a Siddie shard picks you, but you passed the Terrestrial roll?
/Standard disclaimer about RAW =/= LAW
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Can't happen. The order of operations is Terrestrial Roll, Fated Exaltation Chance, then Free Game.


Coyote put it well: think of it as an If statement.


IF Exaltation(Terrestrial) = Yes


Then Exalt.Terrestrial


Else


If Exaltation(Sidereal) = Yes


Then Exalt.Sidereal


Else


Exaltation() = No


Then Exalt.CelestialPotential = Yes


If Exalt.CelestialPotential = Yes


Then validExaltationTarget(Solar,Lunar,Abyssal,Infernal)


Else
 
ShadowDragon8685 said:
Oh right, because you can only be Exalted once. You are Exalted if you were destined to be a DB or a Sid, it just has not manifested yet. Frankly, any kind of situation which would result in a Yozi or Infernal trying to pick you would also be grounds to pop as a Terrestrial or Sidereal anyway.
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Um, destined to receive exaltation means that you are going to get an exaltation, not you already have one. Something the writers stated flat out in that thread you posted. Therefore free game to exaltation outside of fate, which addresses you first point. Infernals (and Abyssals to some degree) are chosen based on the person failing in the situation that would result in them gaining another kind of exaltation, which addresses your second.
 
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