Dice Into the Ruins - Exalted 3e OOC

[Sherwood]

Purr If you have the points for them, there are a pair of moonsilver slayer khatarts in the Lunars book, on pg 329 that you might like to look at. I'll see if there are any other Brawl-based weapons of moonsilver for you to consider.

 

[Sherwood]

What Charm choices would you make? Your first recommended build was very battle-heavy and it gave me the feeling that I'd better play a PC that can take part in combat without sacrificing what he is in his core.

There is no wrong way to make up a character. If you like it, that is all that counts.

That being said, with every person making even what is a similarly built character, there will be differences in where the points go. I would pick different stuff, but I have a different concept of a character for me to run than you do.

 

[Sherwood]

In the Arms book on pg 30 there are the Frost Thorn Knuckles, a moonsilver set of razor claws for 3 points. They can fire their spikes out to medium range using Thrown, giving you a good ranged attack.

 

[Purr]

I get that. I've long been a believer in "You be you" (who knows that better than you and Kaerri, right?). I'm not looking for "right" or "wrong" as only I can decide what is right for my PC. I believe this is elementary among RPers of our tenure. =)

What I am asking for is your perspective? Do you see any "gaping holes" in his Charms? Charms that are basically not worth it? Rykon mentioned "Charm bloat." Do you see some of the Charms I've chosen and know of different Charms that might work more to a Lunar Transporter's ways?

Even without going into detail, I'm building a "ship" here - my very first - and I am completely open to anyone here "checking for leaks" if you follow my meaning? Or just giving opinions! You know how much I like to share! =)

 

[Purr]

In the Arms book on pg 30 there are the Frost Thorn Knuckles, a moonsilver set of razor claws for 3 points. They can fire their spikes out to medium range using Thrown, giving you a good ranged attack.

Oh, how cool! *goes running to read about them* Thanks for the lead! =)

 

[Sherwood]

You got it.

 

[Purr]

I like the Frost Thorn Knuckles, but like Zelator, there are some things I'm not wild about. With Zelator, some of the Evocations required a mount. Well... my character is the mount and Martial Arts can't be used in Spirit Shape/Animal form. Plus, I prefer one-handed weapons when possible (if there is a benefit to wielding a weapon with both hands in Exalted v3.0, I have not stumbled upon it).

The Frost Thorn Knuckles are great in that they use Brawl and, as you mentioned, act as a Ranged weapon! Very nice! The Evocations are hit and miss as they seem to focus heavily on being in a frosty environment? Hmm.

I'm looking now into the (Moonsilver-made) Distaff on page 25. Perhaps this is short-sighted of me, but I find myself looking only at Moonsilver items.

 

[Purr]

Wow! Whomever made up the Distaff is incredibly creative! From the look of things, though it's Moonsilver-made, the Evocations seem to be based on Solar Charms, not Lunar Charms. I wouldn't mind Da Chonk being medically-trained, melee-trained, or even a crafter, but there must be better items out there for a Lunar.

 

[Sherwood]

Distaff uses Melee as its predominant skill, not Brawl. If you want a sword, you'll need to allocate some points to Melee.

 

[Psychie]

Collar of Dawn's Cleansing Light (p. 600, Core) - Because... he's a cat. =)

It is a good utilitarian artifact, and rather common. It might not be too hard to find one out there as you adventure.

 

[Purr]

Distaff uses Melee as its predominant skill, not Brawl. If you want a sword, you'll need to allocate some points to Melee.

Yeah! I mentioned:

I wouldn't mind Da Chonk being medically-trained, melee-trained, or even a crafter, but there must be better items out there for a Lunar.

Thanks for the reminder, though! =)

It is a good utilitarian artifact, and rather common. It might not be too hard to find one out there as you adventure.

o rly? Perhaps those Merit points can be put elsewhere; thank you for the tip O Mighty Storytella! =)

Man, that Flying Silver Dream sword is something else! In a way, it's its own ranged weapon too - and so absolutely loyal! =)

 

[Psychie]

I believe that all the artifacts in the Lunars book are moonsilver. It makes sense to have that magical metal as a Lunar, since your DBT is resonant with moonsilver.

 

[Sherwood]

The Hundred Rings of Hadam-Ul in the Lunar book is a good chain weapon, but it uses Martial Arts for its attack ability. It does a good amount of damage, and is concealable.

 

[Purr]

I believe that all the artifacts in the Lunars book are moonsilver. It makes sense to have that magical metal as a Lunar, since your DBT is resonant with moonsilver.

Pardon me but, um, what Artifacts in the Lunar book? I went looking twice and I haven't seen any?

The Hundred Rings of Hadam-Ul in the Lunar book is a good chain weapon, but it uses Martial Arts for its attack ability. It does a good amount of damage, and is concealable.

Yeah. I'll look into it, but if memory serves, the chain-based Martial Art system was a no-go for a guy like O Mighty Fat Cat. I just want to know if there is a way that going into Deadly Beast Transformation doesn't screw my character when it comes to this whole Resonance and Attunement thing. I don't want my PC to become a stranger to his items every time he goes into that form.

 

[Purr]

Oh well. No arms in Arms of the Chosen for my Lunar (except the Frost Thorn Knuckles or the highly-cool but mysterious Distaff). That Moonsilver armor, Unison, is pretty wild but its powers are based on Solar Charms (which I don't even know if those are compatible or useable by Lunars?). There are so few Moonsilver items as it is. So Brawl we go! No wonder you guys all went Solar. Lucky for you! =)

This Artifact could prove useful though! Psychie Are these in the game?

Stoneheart Coffer (p. 117, Arms of the Chosen) - I think this would be ideal for a Transporter. =)

Spoiler: Stoneheart Coffer

(Artifact ••)

Merchant princes transport their most fragile goods in these white jade boxes, while scavenger lords unearthing them in ancient ruins tremble with hope at what fabulous First Age riches they might contain. Lined with rainbow skins from immortal seven-colored serpents of the uttermost East, each is virtually indestructible, and their contents — from delicate glassware to ancient crumbling scrolls — share their nigh-indestructibility.

While the coffer is closed, even the roughest treatment or most extreme temperature leaves its contents undamaged. Breaking the coffer is a Strength 10+ feat, at difficulty 15 to slowly bash through or difficulty 20 to smash it open with one blow. Its magic doesn’t ward off decay; ripe fruit won’t bruise within but will go rotten. Coffers range in size from petite jewel-boxes to a Dynast’s traveling trunk. Each opens to a jade key, though keys to First Age coffers are usually long lost. Picking a coffer’s lock is difficulty 7; making a new key is a major repair project requiring Craft (Artifact).

 

[Psychie]

The moonsilver artifacts in the Lunar book start on pg 318. There are a handful of pieces of armor and weapons to look at in there. I hope that there is something that speaks to you in there.

Yeah. I'll look into it, but if memory serves, the chain-based Martial Art system was a no-go for a guy like O Mighty Fat Cat. I just want to know if there is a way that going into Deadly Beast Transformation doesn't screw my character when it comes to this whole Resonance and Attunement thing. I don't want my PC to become a stranger to his items every time he goes into that form.

As far as I know, you can take the Martial Art Ability without having to take the 4 dot Merit and get a Charm-based style. It can work for you to do that if it is what you are looking for.

Oh well. No arms in Arms of the Chosen for my Lunar (except the Frost Thorn Knuckles or the highly-cool but mysterious Distaff). That Moonsilver armor, Unison, is pretty wild but its powers are based on Solar Charms (which I don't even know if those are compatible or useable by Lunars?). There are so few Moonsilver items as it is. So Brawl we go! No wonder you guys all went Solar. Lucky for you! =)

This Artifact could prove useful though! Psychie Are these in the game?

Stoneheart Coffer (p. 117, Arms of the Chosen) - I think this would be ideal for a Transporter. =)

Spoiler: Stoneheart Coffer

(Artifact ••)

Merchant princes transport their most fragile goods in these white jade boxes, while scavenger lords unearthing them in ancient ruins tremble with hope at what fabulous First Age riches they might contain. Lined with rainbow skins from immortal seven-colored serpents of the uttermost East, each is virtually indestructible, and their contents — from delicate glassware to ancient crumbling scrolls — share their nigh-indestructibility.

While the coffer is closed, even the roughest treatment or most extreme temperature leaves its contents undamaged. Breaking the coffer is a Strength 10+ feat, at difficulty 15 to slowly bash through or difficulty 20 to smash it open with one blow. Its magic doesn’t ward off decay; ripe fruit won’t bruise within but will go rotten. Coffers range in size from petite jewel-boxes to a Dynast’s traveling trunk. Each opens to a jade key, though keys to First Age coffers are usually long lost. Picking a coffer’s lock is difficulty 7; making a new key is a major repair project requiring Craft (Artifact).

The Stoneheart Coffer is acceptable.

 

[Psychie]

Just to let everyone know, I will have a IC post up soon. I have not forgotten about that.

 

[Sherwood]

Good to know. lol

 

[Psychie]

BTW, Purr Go ahead and put Chonk up in the Character thread, and any edits you need to make on him can be done there. That way, we have everyone's characters in the same place.

 

[Purr]

The moonsilver artifacts in the Lunar book start on pg 318. There are a handful of pieces of armor and weapons to look at in there. I hope that there is something that speaks to you in there.

Oh kickin'! How did I miss that (or how did I miss that 2, maybe 3 times now)? Thanks, you!

As far as I know, you can take the Martial Art Ability without having to take the 4 dot Merit and get a Charm-based style. It can work for you to do that if it is what you are looking for.

Oh! So, if there are Artifacts that state Martial Art as a... keyword? One uses those, but if you want a Martial Art style (i.e. White Reaper, Centipede, etc.), one must first select the 4 dot Merit! Okay! I am enlightened! =)

The Stoneheart Coffer is acceptable.

Cool! I'll first take a look at those goodies in p. 318 also in the hopes that something speaks to Fat Cat and me there.

BTW, Purr Go ahead and put Chonk up in the Character thread, and any edits you need to make on him can be done there. That way, we have everyone's characters in the same place.

Can do! =)

I don't understand how (or even if) Moonsilver weapons that provide Solar-based Charms work with Lunars (or if they do at all)?

 

[Rykon]

Finally back home to relax. A lot going on today I see.

BTW, Rykon Thank you for jumping in with your Exalted knowledge here. You clearly know the details of the game better than I do, and I really appreciate the help!

It's no problem at all character creation is really fun for me when it comes to Exalted.

I would like Aredin (Rykon's character) and he to at least have worked together in transporting and larceny, if not be good buddies!

Sadly I have no investment in the Larceny ability this time around. Still, treasure hunting and adventuring is pretty fun work when you aren't taking down slavers or cultists.

Rykon mentioned "Charm bloat." Do you see some of the Charms I've chosen and know of different Charms that might work more to a Lunar Transporter's ways?

I'll try and explain my thought process as to what I mean here.

Disclaimer: I'm a numbers guy and for whatever reason I almost feel compelled to optimize for efficiency when I notice certain things up to a point. Not everyone will suffer from this problem and I wish I could say I was one of those people at times.

To me, Ever-Wary Fox Technique is really pushing the line of "bloat" or "speedbump" class. When you cut through the fluff, it's 3m for one "non-charm" success and negating penalties to awareness specifically from being unconscious or "incapacitated" in their words.

Traditionally 2 dice were considered roughly equivalent to one success, and you can already add 2 dice for 2 motes through the Perception excellency. Why is this relevant? Well, let's say this charm hypothetically didn't specify that this bonus was "non-charm"... Because your Perception is 3, you can add up to 3 dice for 3m using the Perception excellency already as a power that didn't actually cost you xp. However, if you used this charm, you can now only add one more die with the excellency, cause that success counted as if you were adding 2 dice from charms already. So now your only real benefit is dealing with a very situational penalty.

In this example, you would have a power that costs you xp, is less impressive than a power that didn't cost you xp, actively interferes with your ability to use that power, and isn't even cheaper on your motes! This is now slightly mitigated by the fact that it actually does specify it doesn't count against your charm limit, so it doesn't interfere with your ability to make use of the Perception Excellency. However, I would still say it is at the end of the day a very expensive way to address a highly specific situation both in XP and in motes.

To put mote economy more into perspective... you have 16 personal motes and 38 peripheral motes at Essence 1. You regain 5 per hour outside of combat. This ability to nullify the sleeping penalty (with a bonus success, granted) costs 3 motes and 10 xp for that privilege (only 8xp if favored).

Now if you don't have a better option for what you're trying to achieve it is what it is. What I will say is, there are other things that are far less situational that you can get more practical use out of. I'll use the charm Bending Before the Storm (Lunars p.185) as an example. This admittedly has one pre-req charm, but is otherwise comparable. It is Dexterity 3, Essence 1, costs only 2m to use. This one halves the total of all penalties to your defenses, and will outright nullify them if your attacker has less initiative than you do. That is defenses as in plural. So both Parry and Dodge benefit. The Solar's version will only impact EITHER Parry (See Dipping Swallow Defense) or Dodge (See Shadow Over Water). I will add that this includes things like: mobility penalties from armor, bad terrain, being attacked by multiple opponents, poor visibility/hidden attackers, and more. The pre-req charm I vaguely and barely mentioned earlier, Agile Beast Defense, is a 1m charm (these are almost always terrific value) to gain initiative when you successfully defend, allow you to parry lethal weapons while unarmed, and improve your defense if your attacker happens to either have lower initiative or have any 1s in the final attack roll.

To make a very long story short: Why does something like Agile Beast Defense strike me as more impressive than say, Ever-Wary Fox Technique? Because Agile Beast Defense costs you very little motes(1), to do something you couldn't do without it (2), in a very frequent circumstance(3) where Ever-Wary Fox Technique costs a noteworthy amount of motes (1), to slightly enhance something you can already do (2), in a somewhat rare circumstance (3). This isn't always easy for a newcomer to judge (I mean seriously there are over 300 lunar charms) and that's why we're here for ya Dann.

 

[Purr]

Finally back home to relax. A lot going on today I see.

Welcome home, Rykon! =)

Being a math nerd for the sake of fun and efficiency is a terrific way to satisfy many a gamer! I do a lot of this myself in Palladium and D&D/Pathfinder. It seems that you have it down to a fine art in Exalted though! =)

Sadly I have no investment in the Larceny ability this time around. Still, treasure hunting and adventuring is pretty fun work when you aren't taking down slavers or cultists.

Maybe that's why they worked together? In a nutshell - perhaps Aredin needed a Transporter (maybe freed slaves?)? Contacted O Mighty Fat Cat who did the job? They've gotten along ever since?

However, I would still say it is at the end of the day a very expensive way to address a highly specific situation both in XP and in motes.

Oof! And here I thought Ever-Wary Fox Technique was useful as a danger sense (against traps, poisons, storms, etc.)! One can use a Perception Excellency instead to detect such things?

I'll use the charm Bending Before the Storm (Lunars p.185) as an example.

Yeah! I was looking at that one as a possible Charm to get now or in the future!

This isn't always easy for a newcomer to judge (I mean seriously there are over 300 lunar charms) and that's why we're here for ya Dann.

And I love all of you for it! Even folks who are only chiming in a little here, feel free to turn up your volume here! I want to get to know you and your perspectives too!

Rykon O.K.! I think I see your logic here. If you've the time and inclination, what Charms might you take if you wanted to play a combat and stealth-capable Transporter like Da Chonk? I'm open to builds and Artifact/Merit/Flaw choices - virtually any advice! =) For the freedom of innocent slaves everywhere! Rawr! =)

 

[Purr]

Thinking out loud here. =)

So much to think about while we ride out Hurricane Ian here (a really good thing!). The Nightbane Bow (p. 323, Core) makes me want to alter O Mighty Fat Cat to have Medicine and Archery. Fat Cat could happily heal and cure the needy, plus I think he'd make a good archer (especially seeing as bows are silent by nature). I don't know how ammunition works (though Sherwood mentioned there's a Charm (?) out there that allows a Lunar to use their quills (or perhaps fur?) as ammunition.

But as I understand Lunars, it's a weapon he could only use in human form (no fur = no ammunition). I haven't seen a single Artifact yet that he can use in his Deadly Beast form and his and Spirit Shape is a giant housecat. Hmm. I just fail to understand how someone with the Deadly Beast Transformation is supposed to carry around Artifacts at all (every time you "pop" into Deadly Beast, you basically estrange every Artifact you're carrying?). What am I missing here?

I think the 5-dot Unison armor (p110, Arms of the Chosen) is everything my character's currently purchased armor is and more (and at the cost of only one more dot in Merit!). But again, Deadly Beast Transformation. Use it once and it's back to the very start (or worse) with your 5-dot Artifact armor? Is there some way around this? Is there some way to bring Deadly Beast Transformation into harmony with the PC's Artifacts? Or at least not "make them mad" when you transform? It's like it's one or the other (have a really nasty Deadly Beast form OR choose really cool Artifacts).

Lunars can't reasonably have both?

 

[Rykon]

Oof! And here I thought Ever-Wary Fox Technique was useful as a danger sense (against traps, poisons, storms, etc.)! One can use a Perception Excellency instead to detect such things?

Anything you can attempt with a mundane action, you can boost with an excellency as long as you qualify to have the excellency with no additional charms necessary. Worth noting that if your action is made possible through another charm, you can also support that with your excellency because it is an action available to the character.

what Charms might you take if you wanted to play a combat and stealth-capable Transporter like Da Chonk?

Here are some areas you might want to consider and whether or not investing in one of these areas complements the style and image of the character you are wanting to play.

Combat

• Making an attack more accurate
• Making an attack do more damage (withering and/or decisive)
• Making more than one attack in a round (or effect multiple opponents simultaneously)
• Improving your movement actions (Rush to close in on a fleeing opponent, Disengage to flee from an opponent)
• Enhancing certain "Gambits" like grappling or distraction. Clashes are a noteworthy mention here too.
• Preventing your opponent's attacks from hitting you (Defense enhancements to Parry and/or Dodge)
• Not taking as much damage from a hit (Improving your Soak with things like Deadly Beastman Transformation or Armor)
• Making your opponent regret their decisions Having the ability to use a "Counterattack" (Counterattacks require you to use a Counterattack Charm)
• Recovering from damage you've taken (While all the Exalted have decent natural healing abilities before you factor in their charms, Lunars have the best self-healing charms)

Non-Combat

• Sensing danger
• Navigating
• Hunting
• Social Interaction (I'll note there's a very elegant system here for those willing to engage with it. Once you understand how to use the rules, it can be very satisfying and rewarding)
• Revealing or Deciphering secrets (the action for declaring a fact is definitely worth a quick glance)
• Braving hostile environments
• Conducting business, legitimate or otherwise
• Healing the sick or injured (Healing others is one of few arenas where mundane actions fall woefully short. You're going to want charms dedicated to healing if this is an important part of the character's identity)
• Crafting in some capacity, though I mention this with great trepidation (As it was originally designed, this is a black hole 90+% of players will avoid for their characters unless they are wanting to be a crafter at the exclusion of most other things or adding some dots here and there to breathe some life into what makes the character who they are. Most games where crafting is frequently present will use a wholesale, homebrew rewrite of the entire crafting system up to and including the entire crafting charm sets for all Exalt splats.)

Outside of certain noted exceptions, these are all mundane actions. You can be better at doing any of these by using the appropriate Excellency and it's damn good at what it's for. Mortal opponents won't stand a chance when you exert maximum effort. Strategic play may even overwhelm supernatural foes with proper timing and especially with teamwork. However, if you want to face experienced or specialized supernatural opponents, then you'll want something that can complement your excellency to push you even further past your normal limits.

If you'd like specific examples of what I'd take... Here are some charms I had listed for my own fox based character, the living war god Toun Whitefang.

Terrifying Ogre Alteration (Strength) - For most combat lunars, your warform is kind of a central anchor for a lot of your potential. This charm is a good example of building on a foundation as it lets you add more mutations to your warform for things like beefing up your soak, or making you faster (higher pools for movement actions)

Ferocious Biting Tooth (Strength) - This is a damage enhancer that is somewhat clumsy conceptually but when you understand the implications gives important strategic utility. Why would I call it clumsy? This is a Dual keyword charm, meaning it can be used for both Withering and Decisive attacks but has a different effect depending on the type of attack it's being applied to. For Withering attacks, it slightly improves your ability to deal initiative damage to opponents with incredibly high soaks and this slight bonus gets better as you increase in essence. For decisive attacks, it is worded poorly, but it allows you to take your "threshold successes" (Your attack successes - your opponents defense score) and add that to your decisive damage pool in excess of your initiative value. This is something you naturally do already with withering attacks, but you don't for decisive attacks... but now you do because charm... See what I mean? Clumsy. but Helpful!

Secure Den Prana (Wits) - This is a magical action where you create a supernaturally obscured safehouse burrow to be a den where you and some friends can lay low for a minute and catch some rest. I personally like it for style points alone, but I get it's not a great fit for every character. This can also be expanded upon with further charms to be even more impressive. See the territory sections of various attributes if this interests you.

Glance-Oration Technique (Appearance) - It's fairly expensive mote wise, but it is a justification to be able to communicate effectively while in an animal shape or if you simply just want to be silent. In the right hands, there are a lot of opportunities here for one that walks in dark places.

Halting the Scarlet Flow (Stamina) - Whenever I refer to how useful Lunar health regeneration magic is, I'm referring to this specific charm. Worth a look!

 

[Purr]

Anything you can attempt with a mundane action, you can boost with an excellency as long as you qualify to have the excellency with no additional charms necessary. Worth noting that if your action is made possible through another charm, you can also support that with your excellency because it is an action available to the character.

O.K.. That clinches it then. Ever-Wary Fox Technique takes a backseat! =)

Terrifying Ogre Alteration (Strength) - For most combat lunars, your warform is kind of a central anchor for a lot of your potential. This charm is a good example of building on a foundation as it lets you add more mutations to your warform for things like beefing up your soak, or making you faster (higher pools for movement actions)

Yes, I saw this and am heavily considering it (as Psychie is also allowing Fat Cat to use his Mutations in his Giant Housecat Spirit Shape - a BIG bonus I am very appreciate of as it's a core reason I wanted to play him). Four more Mutations add up!

Same goes for Halting the Scarlet Flow. I'm really impressed with that one too!

But at the cost of Artifacts? I've got to be misunderstanding something.

Secure Den Prana (Wits) - This is magical action where you create a supernaturally obscured safehouse burrow to be a den where you and some friends can lay low for a minute and catch some rest. I personally like it for style points alone, but I get it's not a great fit for every character. This can also be expanded upon with further charms to be even more impressive. See the territory sections of various attributes if this interests you.

I somehow gained the impression we'd be on the move. I like this safehouse idea greatly, but not if it's just going to be left behind.

Glance-Oration Technique (Appearance) - It's fairly expensive mote wise, but it is a justification to be able to communicate effectively while in an animal shape or if you simply just want to be silent. In the right hands, there's a strong sales pitch for one that walks in dark places.

Do what? Let me look this bad boy up! =)