[Interest Check] Crafting Madness

[Persell]

Sorry. Thought I had replied to this already.


I don't have glories, but if you post the details of the prayer piece, I'll go over it. If your primary concern is inflicting agg damage, either a 2 dot custom artifact or sorcery will do it. A 1m surcharge per shot basically just buys off the misc action to reload. Doing that for free would require either artifacts or spells as Inexhaustible Bolts of Solar Fire is pretty much beyond a non-archery focused starting character. A custom artifact or spell would do either, depending on which direction you want to go.


Gather's notion of a ECJ would also work well, with the limiting factor of Phantom Arrow Technique not working on firewand charges. You'd need to combine that with an artifact. Unfortunately, ECJ's are inherently destructive. Using one with a Holy effect may or may not work, and if it does, it will have unintended side effects. Translation: mad science.


On a more general note, where exactly are you going with this? Is the gun style weapon something you're interested in, or is it simply a combination of mechanics? Firewands do a lot of damage, mitigated by ammo costs and reload times/low rates. If stylistically you aren't after one, there are other weapons with do the job better and easier. If you are, something can be arranged, but you may wind up creating your own artifacts/spells. Translation: mad science.

 

[gatherer818]

I think he really likes the Prayer Piece itself. It physically looks like a flame piece, but fires pure-gold slug inscribed with prayers to the Unconquered Sun, and the rifling in the barrel houses thousands of microscopic prayers and shrines to Sol as well. It can hold 5 slugs at a time and still requires an action to reload every 5 rounds, in addition to needing to craft the ammo in advance. I'll PM you the info on just the Prayer Piece (I know the site seriously frowns on sending full books around, so I'll just cut the one artifact out for you).


EDIT: I just re-read your post, Miashara, and I'm confused. Why would the essence from an Essence Capacitor Jewel be considered destructive? It's the only one mentioned in the chapter that isn't made of soulsteel and death-essence, and doesn't lose power when exposed to the light of the sun. It's just listed in the MEP:Abyssals because that's where they cover Essence Batteries. It's magitech (with a repair rating and all), not necrotech, and uses any or all magical materials in its construction. You might be thinking of an Essence-Containing Gem (they're really, really similar, after all) which is listed on the same page. It's made with soulsteel or black jade and ghosts make them to power necrotech.

 

[Persell]

You're right; I was thinking of a Soulfire Gem. Yeah, you could do that.

 

[Progress]

Gatherer pretty much said everything that needed to be said. There's a bit of a discrepancy on how the ammo works - you only need some lumps of soft metal and a Craft: Air check at difficulty 3. However, there's no actual resources value listed for the ammo, meaning that technically it can be replicated with Phantom Arrow Technique (PAT). This was another problem I wanted to clear up with you - making the ammo itself takes a long time (an hour per round, I think?), and one could make an argument that lead or another soft metal has some value (especially if you're using the ideal metal, Gold). For those reasons, I can understand if you don't want PAT to be able to replicate ammo. I was thinking a common ground between the two--perhaps making it so replicated ammo (from whatever fashion) can't be used to do Agg to CoD's--but if we involve some manner of automated ammo creation in a custom version of the piece (my ideal choice), it's probably unnecessary.


But yeah, I really enjoy the idea of a Prayer Piece, but spending 1m per shot (with the ability to do Agg to CoD's, but nothing special to normal foes) is not really ideal to me. If it's all right with you, I'll work up a variant on it.

 

[gatherer818]

I just want to reiterate that if I annoy anyone with my tendency to give my opinion on other people's questions, please just let me know and I'll stop. I have a bit of know-it-all syndrome, you know, the kid whose hand is ALWAYS up when the teacher asks a question. I'll admit that I likely won't be that way when it comes to the crafting rules, though, this'll be the first game where I can expect crafting to play a major role. I'm also the DM/GM/ST for 99% of the games I'm in, so answering every question I see is kind of what I'm used to. Just tell me to STFU if necessary


*proceeds to answer questions meant for someone else again*


It's actually 5 hours per round of ammunition, by the way... but it's a single roll. Isn't there a Craft charm that shortens the duration for a single roll to one action or one minute? You might be able to mass-produce it that way. Or if you're spending back-to-back time on it (10 or even 15 hours non-stop isn't too difficult for an Exalt) Miashara might not be opposed to letting you accumulate successes over multiple rolls and make a piece of ammo per 3 successes, as long as you get at least 3 per roll (which is what the ammo requires). That could cut down the time for a good crafter - Rolling 8 successes on a difficulty 3 roll shouldn't just waste the other 5 successes when you're dedicated to making ammo all day - 24 successes over 3 rolls should go ahead and make 8 rounds, not 3, imho. Or maybe extra successes on the roll should reduce the time required - 8 successes is nearly triple what you needed, so you complete it nearly 3 times as fast - 2 hours instead of 5.

 

[Progress]

I just want to reiterate that if I annoy anyone with my tendency to give my opinion on other people's questions, please just let me know and I'll stop. I have a bit of know-it-all syndrome, you know, the kid whose hand is ALWAYS up when the teacher asks a question. I'll admit that I likely won't be that way when it comes to the crafting rules, though, this'll be the first game where I can expect crafting to play a major role. I'm also the DM/GM/ST for 99% of the games I'm in, so answering every question I see is kind of what I'm used to. Just tell me to STFU if necessary
*proceeds to answer questions meant for someone else again*


It's actually 5 hours per round of ammunition, by the way... but it's a single roll. Isn't there a Craft charm that shortens the duration for a single roll to one action or one minute? You might be able to mass-produce it that way. Or if you're spending back-to-back time on it (10 or even 15 hours non-stop isn't too difficult for an Exalt) Miashara might not be opposed to letting you accumulate successes over multiple rolls and make a piece of ammo per 3 successes, as long as you get at least 3 per roll (which is what the ammo requires). That could cut down the time for a good crafter - Rolling 8 successes on a difficulty 3 roll shouldn't just waste the other 5 successes when you're dedicated to making ammo all day - 24 successes over 3 rolls should go ahead and make 8 rounds, not 3, imho. Or maybe extra successes on the roll should reduce the time required - 8 successes is nearly triple what you needed, so you complete it nearly 3 times as fast - 2 hours instead of 5.

No worries, until I really cracked down on myself I used to do it all the time as well. I'm not personally bothered by it, though.


And yeah, that's right, it is 5 hours per round - must have just been wishful thinking on my part Luckily, Craftsman Needs No Tools will give us 9 hours of work per hour (when meeting the minimum Charm prereqs), meaning my character could craft 9 rounds every 5 hours. The extra successes thing would be cool too, if Miashara likes it that is...

 

[gatherer818]

That's not bad at all. I'm personally bothered by the thought of simply generating ammo out of thin air for it, just because the whole reason it works is that you spend the time inscribing the prayers. It's literally powered by prayer. Were I the ST, I'd allow Phantom Arrow to make ammo for it but require a prayer roll per shot fired, probably starting at 3 or 4 and increasing in difficulty by one per shot fired in the same action (first shot 3 or 4, second 4 or 5, a magical flurry would keep going up) to represent how quickly you're having to murmur the words to the prayer to complete them in time to fire. Since the bigger version (Inexhaustible Bolts of Solar Fire if I'm remembering right, but I haven't run Archery in a while) specifically says it can duplicate expensive components, I'd probably let it work as written (it's capable of making ammo that actually has the prayers inscribed). A machine that makes the ammo for it would probably need to fed expensive or exotic components as a sacrifice to the Holiest of Holies to count as the required prayer.


Again as always, just my opinion though.

 

[Persell]

At difficulty three, repeat business and working from a proven plan would reduce the threshold to one after the first iteration. That's basically trivial, so after you knocked out the first one, you could make one per success. Honestly, I'd say pick up the second craft excellency and put it in a two charm combo with CNNT, and then every time you fire that, you get 9 hours of crafting without the roll. Then it's just a matter of in-game time. Making ammo shouldn't be a primary task.


Regarding the resource cost, you can make them out of anything. Gold would be a resource 2 purchase. Better substances do make better prayers though. I could see it mattering in exotic circumstances, but it won't make a difference if you're fighting mooks. Exotic materials may give a bonus to damage or accuracy.


What you can't do is skip the crafting time completely. They work because of the time and effort put into them, and that's not going to change. While you can mass produce them ahead of time and store them, possibly in elsewhere, until needed, they cannot be spontaneously created by either PAT or ISBF. Otherwise the least gods will get upset and think you aren't taking them seriously.


Unless you're a Zenith, but you're not.

 

[gatherer818]

Very nice. What I just realized is that the prayer piece is Creation's railgun. It works by forming a conduit between the lines of prayers built into the walls of the barrel through a pure-metal prayer-conductor, just like a railgun forms an electrical conduit between the two rails through a single conductive metal slug. I suddenly become very jealous.

 

[Progress]

At difficulty three, repeat business and working from a proven plan would reduce the threshold to one after the first iteration. That's basically trivial, so after you knocked out the first one, you could make one per success. Honestly, I'd say pick up the second craft excellency and put it in a two charm combo with CNNT, and then every time you fire that, you get 9 hours of crafting without the roll. Then it's just a matter of in-game time. Making ammo shouldn't be a primary task.
Regarding the resource cost, you can make them out of anything. Gold would be a resource 2 purchase. Better substances do make better prayers though. I could see it mattering in exotic circumstances, but it won't make a difference if you're fighting mooks. Exotic materials may give a bonus to damage or accuracy.


What you can't do is skip the crafting time completely. They work because of the time and effort put into them, and that's not going to change. While you can mass produce them ahead of time and store them, possibly in elsewhere, until needed, they cannot be spontaneously created by either PAT or ISBF. Otherwise the least gods will get upset and think you aren't taking them seriously.


Unless you're a Zenith, but you're not.

Fair enough, I can get behind that. Would it be safe to assume that Lead would be worth Resources 1? Also, after making the first (for five hours of crafting time, however modified), will the time to produce additional rounds decrease? That would definitely be desirable, otherwise I'm still spending days on end to restock after using enough ammunition.

 

[Persell]

Not appreciably. You can build up a stock of ammo and carry it around, but the individual round build time isn't mutable.

 

[gatherer818]

You're planning on giving us a fair amount of downtime to craft or otherwise work our trades anyway, though, right? I'd imagine with the description Miashara has given us so far about the game style of play and everything, you shouldn't have to worry too much. And I'd imagine you can stunt it a bit into other crafting or downtime stuff as well - like carving prayers while you wait for a forge to heat up or your followers go out to find the first dandelion seed in the morning wind or w/e crazy exotic ingredient you need next, you can sit around and write prayers in bullets the way many people whittle to pass the time.


EDIT: heh, um, yeah, apparently I'm capable of writing things where you can't tell who I'm talking to, as well. I promise my posts will make much more sense in a few days. I'm currently waiting for a dentist appointment where I expect a month and a half of pain-induced sleep-deprivation to end. I should be both more agreeable AND sensible after a round of antibiotics and prescription pain meds. Although depending on what they give me for the pain, that might make me loopy too...

 

[Persell]

Yeah, what Gather said. I really don't foresee this being a big issue. And yes on Resource 1 Lead.

 

[Feantari]

Does this mean it's almost game time?

 

[Persell]

Pretty close.

 

[Progress]

You're planning on giving us a fair amount of downtime to craft or otherwise work our trades anyway, though, right? I'd imagine with the description Miashara has given us so far about the game style of play and everything, you shouldn't have to worry too much. And I'd imagine you can stunt it a bit into other crafting or downtime stuff as well - like carving prayers while you wait for a forge to heat up or your followers go out to find the first dandelion seed in the morning wind or w/e crazy exotic ingredient you need next, you can sit around and write prayers in bullets the way many people whittle to pass the time.

That was the plan anyways, so that should work. I should have the backstory up shortly.

EDIT: heh, um, yeah, apparently I'm capable of writing things where you can't tell who I'm talking to, as well. I promise my posts will make much more sense in a few days. I'm currently waiting for a dentist appointment where I expect a month and a half of pain-induced sleep-deprivation to end. I should be both more agreeable AND sensible after a round of antibiotics and prescription pain meds. Although depending on what they give me for the pain, that might make me loopy too...

This, sir, is why I prefer a substance that may or may not be legal for medicinal or recreational usage in your area. The pain just melts away, man, and the colors-


Whoa, my hands are HUGE.

 

[Progress]

What about making ammunition out of one of the magical materials?

 

[xarvh]

What about making ammunition out of one of the magical materials?

Sounds effective AND expensive.


As alternative, you can just have a charm to upgrade Phantom Arrow technique to produce the required ammo.


OR, have MM ammo, and use a custom hearthstone to retrieve it.

 

[Progress]

What about making ammunition out of one of the magical materials?

Sounds effective AND expensive.


As alternative, you can just have a charm to upgrade Phantom Arrow technique to produce the required ammo.


OR, have MM ammo, and use a custom hearthstone to retrieve it.

Probably would have to retrieve it, but considering that its made of magical materials, I doubt the ammo would break apart and/or deform like typical rounds. Expensive, but I have some cool thoughts on how effects might be able to work. More to come.

 

[Progress]

PRAYER PIECE, MARK II (ARTIFACT â—â—â—)


Repair: 2

The pet project of a young Twilight-Caste Solar during the High First Age, the Prayer Piece Mk. II was to be a variation on the time-tested design of the original Prayer Piece. Due to unfortunate timing, the Mark II never saw mass production; only a handful of prototypes were constructed and tested before the Usurpation. Those few that survived those days remain all but hidden, undiscovered and unknown to most of Creation.


The Mark II differs in several key areas from the standard Prayer Piece. Whereas the shots of the first incarnation were powered directly and actively by an attuned wielder, the Mark II takes a different approach. When readying the Mark II, an attuned wielder may spend 2m activating the motonic collection field. This activates a Starmetal lattice of prayers worked into the body of the Prayer Piece, which draws ambient Essence from the surrounding environment, providing the bare-minimum amount of Essence required to catalyze the prayers inscribed into the chambered ammunition and fire the weapon.


This does not occur without notice, however. All beings with Essence pools within 100 yards of an active Mark II feel a slight pressure on these supernatural reservoirs. With a success on an Essence roll, they can determine the general direction of the Mark II in relation to their position. Any being with Essence sight with unobstructed vision to the Mark II can clearly see thin, prismatic strings of Essence streaming into the weapon, beginning about 1 yard away from it. This effect can even be seen through natural cover with difficulty, inhibiting stealth for the wielder of the Mark II as if their Anima Banner were at the 4-7 mote level.


However, while this design enables the Prayer Piece to work without the wielder continuously fueling it motes, the Essence fed to the Little Gods is dissatisfying to them. Shots fueled in this manner do not gain the benefits of the Holy effect of the standard Prayer Piece and do not do Aggravated damage against Creatures of Darkness. The wielder may, however, spend an addition mote per shot (as per the standard Prayer Piece) to gain this benefit. The wielder may also do this without the motonic collection field active, in effect using the Mark II as if it were a standard Prayer Piece.


In addition, the Mark II may be chambered with ammunition made from a wide variety of materials, including the Five (or Six, including Adamant) Magical Materials. Rounds constructed from Magical Materials always cost 2m per shot, but benefit from the standard Holy effect (with the exception of Soulsteel) in addition to the effects listed below:


Orichalcum: Add the wielder's (Essence) in dice of damage to the raw damage of the attack. If the attack is against a Creature of Darkness, add the wielder's (Essence x 2) instead.


Jade: If this round is made from an alloy of several varieties of jade, add an additional three dice of damage. If the round is made from a specific variety of Jade, the attack is modified as if it were affected by the Charm Dragon-Graced Weapon with an elemental effect correlating to the variety of Jade.


Moonsilver: Add the wielder's (Essence) in dice to the accuracy of the attack.


Starmetal: Subtract the wielder's (Essence/2), rounded down, from the DVs of the target of the attack.


Soulsteel: Add the wielder's (Essence) in dice of damage to the raw damage of the attack against living targets. Against Fair Folk, add the wielder's (Essence x 2) in dice of damage instead, and this attack deals Aggravated damage. This round does not benefit from the standard Holy effect. Usage of Soulsteel rounds sicken the Little Gods of the Mark II.*


Adamant: This round deals piercing damage.


As prototypes, the Mark IIs in existence were never meant to see continuous action. The mechanics of the motonic collection field are unrefined, and each scene, or hour (whichever comes first), of its usage counts as one hour. After 25 hours of such, the Mark II must undergo routine maintenance. *Each scene spent firing Soulsteel rounds, with or without the motonic collection field being active, subtracts two hours from the time left until routine maintenance is needed. For every 10 hours of missed maintenance a Mark II goes beyond the 25 hour initial requirement (35, 45, and so on), it loses access to an ability (the motonic collection field, or the ability to fire rounds constructed of a magical material), and then 2L Damage. If and when a Mark II suffers enough missed maintenance so as to eliminate both listed abilities and lower its base damage to 0, the weapon becomes incapable of firing and now requires complex repairs.


Though constructed from several different Magical Materials working in unison, the Mark II can be constructed from any Magical Material as its primary source, save for Soulsteel (as far as it's known...). Prayer Pieces were traditionally the weapons of Solar Exalts, however it was not uncommon for them to end up in the hands of respected Lunars and Sidereals, as well as the rare but honored Dragon-Blooded. Wielders of Mark IIs made of the appropriate Magical Material gain benefits as listed on Exalted, p. 387. A Prayer Piece Mk. II has a single hearthstone slot.


Speed: 5 Accuracy: +2 Damage: 10L Rate: 2 Range: 50 Ammo: 5 Attune: 6

 

[xarvh]

This felt a lot like Cyberpunk. :mrgreen:

 

[Persell]

Increase cost to use per scene without motes per shot requirements by 1wp. It still requires premade ammunition too, which you may have listed and I just missed.


Also, you can make ammo for Resources 0 if you want, and outside of the aforementioned exotic circumstances, it will work just fine.


Trivial nitpick: Ranged MM bonuses are on page 389-90. It's treated as a bow for range bonuses.


Regarding specialty ammunition, I was thinking of doing some odder stuff but really like what you did. You can either take the listed effects or have me work something out. Up to you.


Also, it requires a picture. You don't have to have one immediately, but sooner or later.

 

[Progress]

Increase cost to use per scene without motes per shot requirements by 1wp. It still requires premade ammunition too, which you may have listed and I just missed.
Also, you can make ammo for Resources 0 if you want, and outside of the aforementioned exotic circumstances, it will work just fine.

A willpower feels a bit rough to me... Is there any chance we can reconcile it to something slightly less? A higher mote cost, or maybe 1m per action? Or require a slotted hearthstone to power it?

Trivial nitpick: Ranged MM bonuses are on page 389-90. It's treated as a bow for range bonuses.
Regarding specialty ammunition, I was thinking of doing some odder stuff but really like what you did. You can either take the listed effects or have me work something out. Up to you.


Also, it requires a picture. You don't have to have one immediately, but sooner or later.

Whoops, my bad.


I'll see to a picture shortly. And thanks! Do you have any examples you'd be willing to share? They wouldn't have to be the actual effects, if you want to keep it secret. Maybe we could combine the two, or add more ammunition types? (Frozen Fog? Protoshinmaic Vortices?)

 

[Persell]

I had a big, long post but I deleted it. Tell you what. 2m per scene and you have to make a Charisma + Performance roll at the difficulty 3. Failure means you automatically burn a wp and still have to pay the cost per shot.


Regarding specialty ammo: The more I think about it, the more I like your suggestions. As you suggested, if you use frozen lightning or the souls of drowned babies, we'll go with my weird special effects.


How's that work for you?

 

[gatherer818]

I like the idea of requiring a prayer roll to activate the Essence collector. It makes sense. Costing a willpower on a failure bites, though. And that also means he can't attempt it while he's out of willpower unless you give him another option for a fail condition... maybe if it fails he either spends a willpower OR the little gods refuse to operate the weapon for a scene at all - that way if he's out of willpower he can still at least TRY, but runs the risk of losing the weapon completely for the fight if he does so. And that lets him make tough decisions when he's not out - it is just one willpower after all, is it worth it or do you let the little gods revolt?


Failing the roll and not spending a willpower should also count as time towards next required maintenance, methinks.