[In the Service of the Senate] [OOC thread] Ye Olde Out of Character Thread...

This sort of thing is actually supposed to be a drop in the bucket for Raksha. Most Raksha hierarchy goes simply by "The Strongest Raksha On Top". There is actually considerably less squabbling between the players than I have expected so far for a Raksha game, and a big part of why I decided to play a DB, as I figured that this sort of group would need a non-Raksha to hold it together.


Apparently, I was mistaken. But oh well.


Sorry to see you go Danakir. Not everything goes as planned.
 
O.o


Um... I... wasn't trying to get you out of the game, or even something like remaking your character. Honestly, I thought the character was neat, it's just that I seriously wasn't expecting any of the characters to be quite as aggressive as things were turning out, and you were just the more visible example...


I know power-struggles are to be expected within any group, and with Raksha being more diverse individually than most it would turn up, but as far as I could tell it was spiraling toward actual PC vs PC antagonism/combat over how to get the mission started let alone the actual details of performing the mission.


I'm sorry if I contributed to you pulling out like this. There's hardly any OOC discussion about this that I've seen aside from the last few posts, which were more about the mechanics/degrees of shaping combat rather than the reasons it was happening in the first place, which is what I'm more concerned with...
 
I feel partially responsible for this. And now I have a few things to say to explain the thoughts behind this all.


My first (edited post) was a basically a quick unthoughtful reaction to all of a sudden being dropped into shaping combat and being attacked by the equivalent of someone pulling out a bazooka in the Oval Office when you're invited there by the President.


While I admit that The High Lord's reaction to Magdalene was fairly antagonistic, I was probably moving under different assumptions (no pun intended) than Danakir.


I do agree that the Raksha are not cute, fluffy critters and indeed they are very dangerous monsters.


However, they also move around in Courts. And that implies social structures with rules. And even those at the top of those structures obey the unwritten rules of society. The book also mentions dueling and scheming. For beings of chaos the Raksha are actually very ordered, although that order can change at their whim.


So, I think there the largest misunderstanding and reaction came from.


****


Another thing I noticed, where perhaps my thoughts are completely different from others is the Fantasies. Personally I think that fantasies are used to describe the 'scene'. To describe the actors in the 'scene'. And to describe events in the 'scene'.


And the most important thing is, I think that many Raksha play along with Fantasies. After all, what 'fun' is there if you don't. It tells the story. Meaning that the general response to a Fantasy is to play along with it.


It's like playing cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians, tea parties, or (for those of you who are interested) playing Doctor. And it's only when you really don't like it that you change the fantasy. The place under the table really is a palace, and the girl with the pointy paper hat really is the beautiful princess. The kid with the stick in his hand really is the prince in shining armor with a sword and a white horse, which is just a small toy. For the Raksha these things are almost real. You don't go tell them they are just playing pretend. That's just not what they do.


They only ignore it when it's 'beneath' them to indulge in the fantasy. And they will only rewrite it if a fantasy really doesn't match their own. Otherwise they will play along.


At least those are my two cents on Fantasies.


****


Also one other thing that came up after re-reading the entire book, which really doesn't sit right is the nature of the Hundred-Hand Style charm tree. The way the current wording is, it just doesn't sit right with Shaping Combat. Especially not when you can take 3 assumption charms (of which you need only 1 to manifest) to simulate the effect of charms that even experienced Exalted have difficulty with.


(Five unrestricted full actions is really a lot). Now, on the other hand when you restrict these to purely physical flurries it makes a whole lot more sense. (Yes, I know, it's worded like it works on all flurries).


****


Yet one other thing (I know, this post is getting long) I discovered after re-reading the entire book (reason for this late a response and it helped me getting over my initial emotional response) is that Shaping Weapons do actually follow the laws of 'Fantasy'. So when you're in a cave, that's about as high as you are yourself, you cannot call on your gargantuan behemoth, unless you ignore that fantasy.


****


Sorry for the very long post, just let out my ideas, thoughts and feelings about the game, and I'm really sorry that my conflict seems to have caused one player to leave.
 
Grace of the Infinite Revolving Spheres. It works like it says it does.


Please note that it REMOVES dice penalties from flurries. Not that it allows you to mimic extra action charms which says "Oh hi, please do X # of actions" without a care for rate. It is also EXPENSIVE for a raksha to use or to make into a mutation.


I allowed Danakir to simulate the rate breaking effects of an extra action charm due to stunting. Stunts allow you to do crazy things like emulate charm-effects to a degree.
 
Shaping Combat 101


What is shaping combat? The mechanics would suggest that it is either comparable with physical combat or social combat. That would be wrong. When conflict itself, that is the concept, can be wielded as a sword and used to skewer someone's honor, that is when you start to approach the true creative depth and nature of shaping combat. It is not conflict, that is the kind of simplification that will force you to mistakenly attribute actions that take place into it.


Shaping combat is an abstraction of the Raksha's natural narrative magic used offensively against each other to ensnare and enslave each others to their respective story. In short, it is the means through which we can simulate the actually incredibly arcane and complex process by which the Wyld and the Raksha themselves decides who shall win by TELLING THE BEST STORY.


That is shaping combat, the simulation of the process by which one story is found to be superior to another and as such, the victor is capable to make demands of the other, or to shape them as they see fit. For they are part of the victor's story now, their own story only another facet of the victorious Raksha's great tale. Of course as Raksha defeat each other this web tends to ensnare them all and grow impossibly complex, but it is still how the Fair Folk live and the way by which their society is, when exposed raw for what it is, run.


As such, Sword shaping is no more inherently violent than Cup shaping, it merely uses other narrative principles to convey narrative dominance. Though many mortals would profess preference to the Cup, one need to remember that is also represents the principles of entropy, decay, addiction and insanity. The Cup can be just as vile from our perceptions as the Sword can be great. The Sword can be incredible heroics, the victory of high morals and eternal justice upon the world by a fair hand.


To restrain them to physical and social combat, as if they were merely counterparts, is to do them no service. In other words, in the medium of shaping combat there can be no such thing as overwhelming force for shaping damage is not actual damage, it is rather metaphysical restraints, forcing the other Raksha to admit to their place in the greater one's story whether they like to or not. They are struck by this awesome tide and in one fell swoop they find themselves playing their role in another entity's story. In other words, restraint can have no value for why restrain yourself? Why surround yourself with false weakness? Why reject glory and the true heritage that is yours to boldly bear? That is madness even beyond the understanding of Raksha, who are egotists by nature.


That is, unless they aren't. But what is certain is that we must ask why look askance at such when it is only the natural courtly order of things?


The ultimate conclusion of shaping combat is the area where the violent nature of this situation shines rightfully, but even then why squabble over a few soldiers vexed or an incumbrance to dance with one young lady? It is but games to the Raksha and a subtle but genial way to demonstrate various points and to establish the hierarchy that is fundamental to the social order of such elegant monsters.


Now, of course, were you to vex away the Sword Grace of every fellow fair one you meet, then of course you'd be considered dangerous and unstable even by the standard of the Raksha, but that is unfathomable violence and even more so the implied threat of such an action, that is that the Heart Grace could be next, that is considered to be incredible violence that is certainly undeserved in most cases.


Shaping combat is no more violence than natural mental influence under most circumstances, as I have said countless times now...


It is only as serious as the participants decide to make it.


This was written at Haku's request.
 
While... I can't quite argue about the intricacies/status of shaping combat, the fact that you were readying one of your most powerful shaping weapons somewhat precludes the idea that this was only a 'casual' instance.
 
-sighs-


Sorry I'm not getting it, but this is my first time playing a Raksha, let alone taking part in a game that features Raksha prominently.


My failing, I suppose.
 
Shaping combat is about telling a story.


The Grace you use is the genre of that story.


The shaping weapon you use is the 'style' of writing you use to tell that story.


Does this help?
 
It does... Haku also explained it to me (with varying degrees of success), but to be frank to me it seems like an unneeded extra layer of combat.


Yes, yes, you've already said that it's wrong to consider it as just 'combat,' but from my non-existent experience that's just how I think of it. Hell, I'm probably the one who shouldn't be in the game if you compare the two of us. I just don't see why it wouldn't work (as a non-combat situation) as just normal posing/stunting, instead of having rolls for it and all, especially between PCs who are at least nominally allies...


As far as things go, however, it seems a bit extreme to just drop out, whether... say... myself for not fully understanding the nature of Raksha gameplay, or your self-removing at the misunderstanding of myself, and possible the others (as I obviously cannot speak for their own view of things). I'll admit, I was even planning on posting a counter-shaping before you removed your post, I just didn't realize that that was how it was supposed to go in the first place...
 
As a fyi, the cutscene involving Ciara is just that a short cutscene by that stupid NPC who just wants some screen time. Stupid NPC. :evil:
 
I think part of the problem here is that we have what amounts to various people with various experience with exalted and raksha.


What I can do is split the game between the more experienced/inexperienced players and their characters. I don't know if you lot would want to do this or not... or what exactly you want me to do... :cry:
 
Hiccups happen, I would suggest being mindful for a bit so people can get the hang of what is happening, and if more hiccups happen we can do something drastic.


To be honest I didn't think that ye ole spheres worked for shaping actions too, but that is neat.


Was I wrong that there would have to have been a join shaping combat action or an attempt at surprise just like normal combat?


I wouldn't mind everyone just joining shaping combat and never leaving the office as long as everyone has fun.


Misunderstandings happen, especially on the internet.
 
There's no equivalent to surprise in Shaping Combat.


If the post was still up, you'd consider it to be the equivalent of the first hostile action that forces everyone to roll Join Shaping Combat.
 
Sorry for my lack of a post or two. I've been wacky busy. >< I shall try and post tom... er later today. ><
 
Scene 1.1 is closed. Scene 1.2 will be upshortly.


Also, I want everyone to make a Wits + Lore roll at -4 die penalty. And no, bonuses towards knowing stuff in Creation doesn't apply. Please post results here.


XP is as noted.


Bonus XP +28 on 03/07/2010 for Scene 1.1


d1ng0d0g / High Lord Advocate of Truth and Justice


danakir / Magdalene Farandole, Ringmaster of the Nightmare Circus


Gulup / The Cyan Nassak


magnificentmomo / Contentious Sword IV, Lance of Many, or Quatre


Myllinnia / Xytrisae, The Azure River of Sword and Song


Orzhov / Silvanus Zeitgeist, The Noble Mountebank


Rime / Essai, Transcendent Prism of Infinite Hues


Sarodinian / Castellan Artagnan: Water Aspected Noble
 
@danakir then wouldn't JB still need to be rolled before any combat could take place? BTW: this isn't some sort of attack, it is me making sure I had the rules straight because I like to make failed attempts at STing and every little bit helps.


I will roll and post tomorrow probably because I have a paper to write. Sorry I have been so absent, I decided to get completely trashed the 1st, because we were celebrating the 4th, so I didn't get to tell you all that night that I was going to be without internet until today because I was going to be galavanting about Europe.


Also, I had a thought; doesn't the presence of a DB, who is Creation-Born, force us to one shaping action per scene or some other delirious effect on time?


EDIT: just read what the roll is for. lame/weaksauce. well wishes and whatnot.
 
magnificentmomo said:
@danakir then wouldn't JB still need to be rolled before any combat could take place? BTW: this isn't some sort of attack, it is me making sure I had the rules straight because I like to make failed attempts at STing and every little bit helps.
I will roll and post tomorrow probably because I have a paper to write. Sorry I have been so absent, I decided to get completely trashed the 1st, because we were celebrating the 4th, so I didn't get to tell you all that night that I was going to be without internet until today because I was going to be galavanting about Europe.


Also, I had a thought; doesn't the presence of a DB, who is Creation-Born, force us to one shaping action per scene or some other delirious effect on time?


EDIT: just read what the roll is for. lame/weaksauce. well wishes and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Yes, technically speaking, though unless they want to look as if they're throwing shaping attacks for no reason... it would have been somewhat pointless. This is part of the curse of having a very high JB, you may end up looking like you started a fight you had no intention of starting. But you're right, to an extent.


They impose normal timing rules on everyone present. Though as far as I know, a flurry counts as a single shaping action. I might be wrong, though if I am wrong, you can bet your ass that it will soon be houseruled to hell and back.


Because in the context of this game, it's an incredibly asinine rule. That is what I have to say on that subject.


And lastly....


What's so lame/weaksauce about it?


I figured you still deserve a proper answer to your questions.
 
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