First VS Second

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

O.o I didn't write that, Jakk did, lol.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Then you missed the point.


Some of the finest footwork and body mechanics you're ever going to see in a fighter are displayed in boxing.  I train with boxers, and they make you work for it when you do mixed martial arts, because they are used to being hit, they have good distance skills, and their defence is great against blows, and they know how to control distance.


A semi-pro boxer is more than a match for some brown belt who does a lot of kata.  It comes down to experience, and the skill sets are important.  


Watch a good boxing match, and you can see how you can apply DV.  Slips and turning of arms to drain blows is automatic.  It's reflexive, as is turn ing the head and body to drain more impetus out of blows.  You see how you can attack, and still defend yourself, easily.  


A skilled boxer can make a jab and position himself so his opponent has a hard time returning a shot.  Or twisting with the return to position himself better.  It's not seperate action, it's the same.  And in the environment of the rules of boxing, it makes the illustration apparent all the easier.  


The same can be said for kickboxing as well.  Or juijitsu.  Or most mixed martial arts, but in boxing, it's easier to see.  Defense and offense are combined with good fighters, and not so much with poor fighters.

 

[Persell]

But the hardness is not a natural side effect of normal Exalts' date=' but their armor.[/quote']
And what's wrong with that?  It's given to artifact armor because it's magical.  That's what sets it apart from mundane armor.  And it's not that high, not against other experienced Exalts that can easily raise their damage over 11, which is what the highest artifact hardness is.  Hardness just protects against inexperienced Exalts and mortals from pinging a character to death.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

That's what I was saying

 

[Persell]

Actually hardness is the bane of a lot of martial artists, air dragon relies on pinging for example, as does fire to some extent. and for those "I attack every other tick with my reaper daiklaive" dragon blooded it is pretty evil, too.

 

[memesis]

Actually hardness is the bane of a lot of martial artists, air dragon relies on pinging for example, as does fire to some extent. and for those "I attack every other tick with my reaper daiklaive" dragon blooded it is pretty evil, too.

See the "You allow what?!" thread for some thoughts on this.

 

[Guest]

Why is this thread in the Off-Topic forum anyway?
-S

it was an accident

 

[Guest]

The way the tick system is set up I will never attack I will not move around or evan caste spells I will keep my DV at full at all times in are current game I have the highest soak of us all buy quiet a bit I got hit twice and nearly died using the tick system I would have therefore it is bad

 

[Persell]

Sorry, but I did not understand what you were writing there. Either it is my english or you got either some slang going there or some rather gross grammatical mistakes.

 

[Solfi]

... like the whole thing being one sentence. Without a period actually ending it.

 

[Ker'ion]

The way the tick system is set up I will never attack I will not move around or evan caste spells I will keep my DV at full at all times in are current game I have the highest soak of us all buy quiet a bit I got hit twice and nearly died using the tick system I would have therefore it is bad

Grammatical corrections fairie:


The way the tick system is set up I will never attack, I will not move around or even cast spells, I will keep my DV at full at all times. In our current game I have the highest soak of us all by quiet a bit. I got hit twice and nearly died.


Using the tick system, I would have, therefore it is bad.


It is a non-sequitur argument.


EM almost died with the first ed rules, therefore, he would have died with the second ed tick system and DV (actually, one of his rolls was really high, but the shot wasn't that good and would have missed even with DV).


What I'm thinking of doing is using an altered DV setup, where the DV alterations affect your entire Dex + Dodge dice pool, and you get to roll what ever is left.

 

[Jakk Bey]

I think I parse it as:


"I am a defense monkey and I don't understand how to do anything but soak, so the system is bad because I can't adjust my tactics to take those changes into account.  It is more realistic, because people who just stand there and take a beating fall down a lot, so this is just too real for me.  It's just too real.  TOO REAL."


In short: EM's self vaunted intelligence takes a hit from his own incompetence with the mechanics.  I think it needs a Stamina check to see if it stays conscious from that one...ouchie.

 

[Ker'ion]

Stamina of 2?


He's toast.


Opinions on replacing DV with the old Dex+Dodge and Dex+Parry pools?


i.e.: (DV -3) is now (Dex+Dodge -3).

 

[Flagg]

DV doesn't have a one-to-one relationship with the Dex+<defensive Ability> pool. More like 2:1.


-S

 

[wordman]

Opinions on replacing DV with the old Dex+Dodge and Dex+Parry pools?

Other than "don't", mechanically the DV essentially represents a certain number of automatic defense successes. Given Exalted's dice mechanics, a reasonable sized pool will generate, on average, slightly less than one success for every two die rolled. (If I recall, it comes out to a ~48% chance for a given die to generate a success on average, once the rule of 10 is factored in, but it's been a while since I did the math.) So, to replicate the effect of DV in 2nd Edition using a rolled dice pool instead of the automatic success, you'd need X dice in the pool, where X equals twice DV.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

The way the tick system is set up I will never attack I will not move around or evan caste spells I will keep my DV at full at all times in are current game I have the highest soak of us all buy quiet a bit I got hit twice and nearly died using the tick system I would have therefore it is bad

Are...are you kidding?

 

[Guest]

I think I parse it as:
"I am a defense monkey and I don't understand how to do anything but soak, so the system is bad because I can't adjust my tactics to take those changes into account.  It is more realistic, because people who just stand there and take a beating fall down a lot, so this is just too real for me.  It's just too real.  TOO REAL."


In short: EM's self vaunted intelligence takes a hit from his own incompetence with the mechanics.  I think it needs a Stamina check to see if it stays conscious from that one...ouchie.[/quot]


Rules to survive battle


1 Don't get hit.


2 If #1 isn't and opption don't take damage.


3 becaome aggresive after this is a constant thing.


The tick system throws my battle system out the window so.


The tick system makes #3 unobtainable so I will never attack.


So I like the round system.


Typicly I have a very high initiative but genraly go last in the round anyway, there is no end of round in the tick system, destroying my invulrable system, I refuse to alter my perfect system because white wolf deciced to fuck battle all to hell.

 

[memesis]

There's nothing that can easily be done about spellcasting affecting your DV, other than the traditional "have tough friends".  This is by design, though, given the power of sorcery.


A Solar's tactics will vary by his chosen mode of combat, but best practice is to keep the Dodge or Melee Charms handy which neutralize DV penalties.  Since I'm focusing on Melee, most of what I'm planning goes like this.


Bulwark Stance is now reflexive and lasts until your next turn, while Dipping Swallow Defense neutralizes (IIRC) all DV penalties.  You can also simply buy Melee dice and/or successes.


Choose times during the flow of the fight where your friends can hold off anyone who might try to jump you, then use a flurry against one of your opponents.  Reserve DSD or something else for negating the DV penalties you'll sit through.


Use Extra Action Charms in conjunction with DSD or the First Excellency in Melee, just in case you need an emergency DV boost.


Move out of harm's way.  Athletics Charms that let you close distance, or evade easily, can prevent you from being hit by big attacks even when your DV hasn't refreshed yet.

 

[Persell]

Have a cookie


Edit: this was aimed at EM.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Ker'ion--It's just breaking down the average and giving you a fair amount of successes.  Just treat is as a normal function of having a few brain cells to defend yourself.  And takes out the statistical flukes, and gives a good return.


Does it hose the folks who hoard their "special" dice for defense?  A little, but  in the interest of smoother combats, I'll take that chance.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

So you're bitching because your 'invulnerable' system is gone fuck all? Pretty weak. Seriously, ok you stand there like a statue and let the DB's skull fuck you. Seriously, what the fuck kind of reasoning is this? You don't like it because it makes you think and it makes you act. HOLY SHIT! What a fucking concept.

 

[Jakk Bey]

EM--Your "system" is a lack of imagination or tactics.  And even without the tick system, as an ST, I'd be swatting your ass around like a red headed step child for it.


In one of my combats, you'd still never get to attack, because you're acting last would wind up getting you tossed around and Stunted to the point of just having to pick yourself up and come back into range, and then getting tossed away again like a used tissue.


It comes down to this: you lack imagination, and blame the system for it.  You've found a comfy niche and hold onto it with the tenacity of a rabid beaver, and your ST hasn't had the heart to dig you out of it yet.  


In the tick system, you could easily act.  And defend yourself.  And still Stunt.  And you wouldn't have to wait till the end of a comfy period of a "round" but on your next action--which you could get to fair easy.


And it's more realisitic.  When someone comes swinging at me, I don't wait for it to land.  I see someone reaching back with a haymaker, he gets a shot or four before he can land it, and hopefully I've gotten myself into position to throw the bastiche to the ground when he finally gets the momentum to get that swing loose.  


In the tick system, you can't wait for the end of the round, and everyone else to "get done".  There is no such animal, anymore than there is any such animal in the real world--people keep swinging until you go down, they go down, or you're both so tired and beat on that you turn to each other and wave off to get a beer. And then chuckle at how stupid you've both been.


Your "strategy" was to try to play piss poor rule monkey and with the tick system that might mean that you'd have to come up with something more interesting and better.


Oh, poor baby.  So, instead of looking at the new rules as an opportunity to grow a bit as a player, you want to retreat into some jive ass coccoon of "invulnerability" that a decent ST in the old system should have driven your ass out of a while ago...

 

[Guest]

EM--Your "system" is a lack of imagination or tactics.  And even without the tick system, as an ST, I'd be swatting your ass around like a red headed step child for it.
In one of my combats, you'd still never get to attack, because you're acting last would wind up getting you tossed around and Stunted to the point of just having to pick yourself up and come back into range, and then getting tossed away again like a used tissue.

Yes I would my system was designed to defeat an asshole Gm and it works against him and I know that if it beat him no one else will be able to override it.

 

[memesis]

EM--Your "system" is a lack of imagination or tactics.  And even without the tick system, as an ST, I'd be swatting your ass around like a red headed step child for it.
In one of my combats, you'd still never get to attack, because you're acting last would wind up getting you tossed around and Stunted to the point of just having to pick yourself up and come back into range, and then getting tossed away again like a used tissue.

Yes I would my system was designed to defeat an asshole Gm and it works against him and I know that if it beat him no one else will be able to override it.

Out of curiosity, are you willing to defend that assertion in an actual, real combat session?  We have an IRC channel, and barring that, play-by-post on a forum works.

 

[Persell]

I'd be willing to witness that.