First VS Second

[Guest]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

How so?!? I've not even tested it out yet for real play and I can do it in my head far easier than the initative system of yore.

 

[Flagg]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

Unless you consider "counting" to be math, then I don't unserstand what the hell you're talking about. Even so, you have to count turns in 1st Ed.


-S

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

Umm, it's a hell of alot less counting than rerolling initiative constantly

 

[memesis]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

Your previous posts, such as this gem of a run-on sentence, suggest that a number of things are tough for you.  If math distracts you from a game, then I submit that roleplaying games involving any mechanics beyond "I roll dice and shout" are not for you.

 

[Ker'ion]

So...


Who edited EM's post?


That last line wasn't there when he typed it in yesterday.


And the tick system is really annoying.  Different actions do take different times to complete, but the simplicity of the system was it's major drawing factor for me.  The tick system complicates it unnecessarily.


If they wanted to do something to reflect differing times, they could have used the old system, subtracting from the initiative roll for each action taken?  Would have accomplished the same goal without so much math.


And, in the long run, the Tick system is a turn based system, just an unnecessarily complex one.


Hell, my d% turn setup is about on par with this one, and I went for precision with ease instead of just easy to use.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Actually, ever play FFVII or Grandia? It's the same thing...

 

[Ker'ion]

Thinking.....


Begrudgingly agrees with the FF7 comment.


Though emmulating a video game's turn system in a tabletop game isn't a way to simplify things.


*slowly being swayed toward the Ticks system, even though I dislike the damned thing's setup*

 

[Jakk Bey]

I'm finding the tick system to make things flow much more naturally.  Folks stay interested in the combat much more, rather than waiting for their chance to pipe in on their part of the turn, and then sort of fade off for soda or look at Steph's cleavage.  


It's not perfect, but it is a significant change that speeds things up much better, and coupled with DV, it makes the combat much closer to a wuxia film, and it really rewards Stunts very well--and anything that increases Stunts is good in my book.


Try it out with the housemates a couple of times.  It really works well.

 

[Ker'ion]

...and then sort of fade off for soda or look at Steph's cleavage.

Must be some rack...


I still hate the whole DV idea...


In it's entirity. :evil:

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

And so the argument went on evermore...

 

[Flagg]

Why?


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

I'm a bit confused too, because it's NOT like AC--it just reflects the normal routine of trying to parry or dodge without adding a bunch of dice rolls.

 

[Guest]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

Umm' date=' it's a hell of alot less counting than rerolling initiative constantly[/quote']
We roll initiative once

 

[Guest]

I prefer first franky second is crap a few things are worth converting back to first but the mecanics make me sick.
also i am teh big idot

Look at the last line.

You are an ass and I am not that bad shithead

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

I can do math no problem at all math is easy I don't play d20 for many reasons one of them being the math deracts from the game the tick system increased the math input to play the game and therefore is flawed.

Umm' date=' it's a hell of alot less counting than rerolling initiative constantly[/quote']
We roll initiative once

And you roll Join Battle once...where is the extra math coming from? I don't see it...especially if you make a handy dandy little tick sheet, such as the one stillborn has made, you really don't even have to count...just cross off the tick after it's done so you don't lose track of where you're at...I assume you do the same in 1st edition. You're obviously recording everyone's initiative somewhere, unless everyone just kind of guesses whose turn in the round it is.
To boot, the new combat rules are much more realistic. You're telling me someone fighting with a great axe and someone fighting with a quick weapon, such as a slashing sword will constantly duke it out at the same speed? Even if the guy with the axe got the drop on the guy wielding the sword, eventually, the ease of wielding a lighter weapon will catch up and even the odds a bit.

 

[Ker'ion]

We have few enough gamers, all I have to keep track of is the NPC list, and I have squads all go on the same initiative, so battles move faster.


The PCs are easy to remember, since, at most, I have five people gaming at once.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

In the end though, at least looking at it from a math standpoint, there's really no difference. Much speedier though. Not rolling DV also quickens combat quite a bit. I hated that larger combats that were too small to fit under the category of mass combat usually ended up taking an entire session, possibly 2...this means now if the players do something stupid, the rest of the game doesnt have to wait just because they got in a fight with a miffed DB somewhere down the line.

 

[Ker'ion]

I don't know why combat took you so long.  Our combat sessions only take about an hour, two hours for the long battles.


That still leaves loads of time for the plot to continue.


And one game full of battles isn't that horendous in the long run, unless you want a little of everything crammed into one night.


Actually, there is a difference, mathematically.


Instead of going on your same init every round, your next turn varies depending on your action.

 

[DarkProphet]

Except that it appears that only you and EM keep the first initiative roll... everyone else (and everyone that I know of outside of this site) rolls initiative again for every new turn.


From what I've read and played of 2E, 2E has my vote.  I have yet to come across anything that isn't superior to some degree to 1E.  I didn't think I would like the static defence values or the tick sytems either, once I actually played them, though, I found them to be great... far better than the combat system in 1E.  


I did love rolling dodge and/or parry, but DV does a great job... those with high dodge or high parry are still difficult to hit and if you really need some more defence... you have plenty of charms or stunts to help you out.  (and if you're like EM says and have difficult with stunts, then that has absolutely nothing to do with either edition and is all you)


I haven't done mass combat or social combat yet, but from what I've read they seem alright.  I'm keeping my opinion neutral until such a time that I can actually use them in my game.


As for the addition of war and integrity... thank the gods... I was wondering when WW would pull their heads out of their cabooses long enough to put MA and Brawl together.  The abilities were completely redundant.  I'm about as far from a MA fanboy as one can get and have never really seen why so many players get all wet and tingly over MA in this (or any other) game.  There is no real difference between the two, especially not mechanically.  I'm far from an expert, but from what I've seen, read and heard... it was incredibly silly to keep them as 2 seperate abilities.  I bow to Jakk's knowledge on this.


Integrity... it's great.  This has done nothing but improve social contests.  With the addition of social combat, things should be that much easier to run.  and despite what some may thing, it doesn't do away with the need to use willpower and such.  All it takes is a simple reading of the rules to realize that the addition of integrity has, if anything, improved the game.


I've decided I'll revisit the dv topic for a moment.  The first I heard of it, I didn't like it.  Now that I've had a chance to use it, I've changed my mind.  Hell, it not only speeds combat up by taking away the rolls, but it actually helps defense.  Now you basically get a dodge/parry for every attack coming at you, no more needing to waste actions or charms.  (this is, of course, barring any circumstances that negate the above)  I've done a complete 180 where DV is concerned.


Unless you've actually played more than a session or two using 2E rules, you should hold off ranting about how horrible it is.

 

[Forn Clakes]

I don't know why combat took you so long.  Our combat sessions only take about an hour' date=' two hours for the long battles.[/quote']
To me, that is too long.  With player's waiting around for their turn, they get bored.  Now, I have yet to play the tick system, but I can already see that it will speed combat up a hell of a lot, and yet keep the player's interested in the action as they prepare for there tick to roll around.


~FC.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Indeed, I've gone through many a long combat, luckily I was able to keep interest but my god did I have a headache at the end. Kudos to @E for getting it right.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

Several hours is far too long, and as my group meets infrequently, due to real world issues such as jobs and school, a single combat could often destroy a session. Sure, at the start, everyone whipped stunts out the ass, but an hour into it, it's just "ugh...I hit the water aspect with my daiklaive...is he dead yet?" Combat is supposed to be fast and exciting, just like the combat in a good kung fu movie...not a drawn out slugfest

 

[Persell]

I voted 1st ed. just because I have to learn more stuff; my vote will probably change when I get it down pat.  The artwork and whatnot is better in the 2d ed., imo, and I do like good artwork..

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

The artwork merely gets better with each Second Ed booooooooook...whereas First Ed does up and down artwork...