Fallout based Nationbuilding

[Pat]

Like @MrThe. These people might not even speak English well. You're going to have the Vault Dwelling, educated, fit, conservative Mormons, then you're going to have the poor, disgusting, liberal outsiders. That's probably why your settlement fell originally. These two groups were too different from each other and the Mormons wouldn't let them into their God fearing community. Like in Van Buren.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

It might even cause resentment towards these "prudish" vault dwellers. I'm pretty sure that a lot of these Mormons would feel pretty bad for the outsiders. They might try to teach them to live the way they do or try to help them out but It probably would be hard at first.

Oh yeah, had I been brought up fighting for my life and someone came up and said that bathing was important I would probably either stab or punch them

 

[MrThe]

They would definitely clash a lot. Even if the Mormons tried their best to accept the wastelanders and let them into their community a lot of the wastelanders probably wouldn't want to have much to do with them.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

They would definitely clash a lot. Even if the Mormons tried their best to accept the wastelanders and let them into their community a lot of the wastelanders probably wouldn't want to have much to do with them.

Why do you think I used less then polite methods to claim my land... like stopping caravans accessing towns until they decided to join me or taking them by force and, in all cases, replacing their leadership with ones that support me.

 

[Pat]

They would definitely clash a lot. Even if the Mormons tried their best to accept the wastelanders and let them into their community a lot of the wastelanders probably wouldn't want to have much to do with them.

They would want to make gambling houses, drink, smoke, have brothels. Maybe marry the other sex if/when they understand marriage. They would believe in more harsh punishment, and they wouldn't be as rich or educated as the Mormons, and therefore work longer hours, receive less wages, and have less representation in the government. Some would become thieves. Others would smuggle in drugs.

 

[Pat]

Like they're going to not accept Mormonism, at least at first. Your leaders, or at least a significant part of the Mormons, would think them heathens, would think that they require salvation despite the wastelanders being fine how they are. Your Mormons would be the upper class in the city for a long time. 

 

[General Deth Glitch]

My way, accept that others are not equal to you but just don't oppress them too much and supply a mutually beneficial arrangement, like food for protection

 

[Pat]

They're going to despise outsiders because they don't agree ideologically, and because the outsiders are socioeconomically disadvantaged. Yet, for your population to grow, Mormons need to mate with these wastelanders. Especially since the White Legs and 80s tribe are attacking on a weekly, if not daily basis for most of your history.

 

[MrThe]

Then again maybe some people would realize that if they converted or assimilated into the community better that they would get better opportunity.

 

[MrThe]

Or if they spent more time with them they would be more open to those ideas.

 

[Pat]

Then again maybe some people would realize that if they converted or assimilated into the community better that they would get better opportunity.

People would, but what about the drug addicts, the gay wastelanders, those that can't even read or speak proper English? Before the Mormons would've arrived lots of these people would be little more than tribals, speaking pidgin English.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

Again, why my vault dwellers are the 'upper class' because they are prewar and so had higher standards, but still been out longer then you

 

[Pat]

You're going to have to educate them, let some into the government, educate your own people about wastelanders and assure them that, if their moms and dads didn't make it into the vault, they would be just like them.


At the same time, if you don't compromise when it comes to things Mormons don't like, wastelanders will start to resent you.

 

[MrThe]

The Mormons would probably try their best to get them to assimilate. The Mormons can be infinitely patient in their conversion. You see Mormons believe that after you die you have the chance to accept the gospel in the afterlife. So in their minds they have all the time in the world to convert people. They might be a bit discouraged at the wastelanders resistance but that won't stop them.

 

[MrThe]

You're going to have to educate them, let some into the government, educate your own people about wastelanders and assure them that, if their moms and dads didn't make it into the vault, they would be just like them.


At the same time, if you don't compromise when it comes to things Mormons don't like, wastelanders will start to resent you.

That sounds exactly like what would happen. And as for compromise, the Mormons probably won't like it but they will let them do stuff they don't like.

 

[Pat]

That sounds exactly like what would happen. And as for compromise, the Mormons probably won't like it but they will let them do stuff they don't like.

Not as many would be 'Mormon' but there would still be tension under the surface. Mormons would chat about how unsightly that brothel down the street is, and possibly some of these wastelanders will even convert some younger Mormons to their ways. There's so many differences here it's impossible to avoid class division.

 

[MrThe]

But what about over time? Do you think that the majority of people would assimilate?

 

[General Deth Glitch]

But what about over time? Do you think that the majority of people would assimilate?

It depends on who the majority are, if you try to assimilate people too quickly you generally find they actually assimilate you instead.

 

[Pat]

But what about over time? Do you think that the majority of people would assimilate?

If you're accepting of differences, differences will persist, especially if these immigrants to your nation previously were almost entirely made up of pretty liberal atheists/tribals. Over time, outsiders without Mormon values would outnumber Mormons unless lots had a great change in heart.

 

[MrThe]

I'd say that probably the majority would be the Mormons, because I want it to be that way. So it happened very slowly over about a hundred years but most people become Mormons.

 

[MrThe]

I also wouldn't discount the power of religion. Perhaps some people would find a message that resonated with them.

 

[General Deth Glitch]

I'd say that probably the majority would be the Mormons, because I want it to be that way. So it happened very slowly over about a hundred years but most people become Mormons.

Then, provided the ratios were right, you would most likely assimilate them but the actual growth-rate of your peoples would be pretty damn slow, probably need your population estimate to DROP.

 

[MrThe]

True.

 

[Pat]

I'd say that probably the majority would be the Mormons, because I want it to be that way. So it happened very slowly over about a hundred years but most people become Mormons.

The methods to make most people Mormon probably created class division. You're surrounded by savages and survivalists. Some wouldn't even really be Mormons, but pretenders. 

 

[General Deth Glitch]

In todays modern world, the power of religion is very weak (No I am not saying its wrong). But thats largely because everyone THINKS they know everything and are quick to dismiss faith. However in the past people knew that they knew nothing and so were more accepting. Im not sure which one would persist in a post apocalyptic world, but I feel that the lack of hope in the wasteland would make people trust less in the way things are and much more accepting of society. Its funny how people cite science as why they cant believe when most scientists accept that there could be a higher power, its about as probable as multiverses. Some of them would be very accepting but there would be a few less willing to convert. But if your promising them rewards, even if only spiritual, that rings through in a world forlorn of hope.