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Fallout based Nationbuilding

Fgkun said:
It's not about the lobotomites. It's about collaborating with abominations like the members of the Think Tank that are proven to have ruined a good part of the Mojave wasteland with their uncontrolled technology. And you want to resume exactly that. I see no way how you can keeo the Brotherhood on your side with that.
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You really haven't finished this DLC. That video I linked is a good start, but it isn't exactly the ending my Courier did. Basically four out of the five Think Tanks stand up to Klein, saying how the Courier is great, and then Klein realizes he would like working for the Courier. I'll look for it.
 
No vertibirds, he can have Big MTs, but unless you do something with the bos, I don't see the bos joining this faction group in their state without being disgraced and having split.
 
TheIrradiatedWaffle said:
No vertibirds, he can have Big MTs, but unless you do something with the bos, I don't see the bos joining this faction group in their state without being disgraced and having split.
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There's been this small Loyalist faction that rose up and was promptly defeated. A few members went West, but most people realized the deal the Courier had for them was pretty good, or at least a better way forward than coveting the Free Economic Zone's technology or hiding in their bunker. Veronica's the Elder now. 
 
Pat said:
There's been this small Loyalist faction that rose up and was promptly defeated. A few members went West, but most people realized the deal the Courier had for them was pretty good, or at least a better way forward than coveting the Free Economic Zone's technology or hiding in their bunker. Veronica's the Elder now. 
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seems alright, though the bos numbers would be low, lower than their current NV status.
 
Pat said:
Not really. They've opened recruitment a bit. They don't have the same amount of technology as three years ago, but they do have more manpower.
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Oh, well then, yeah, they'd have more people but not as many veterans from the old regime, as with the East Coast
 
Pat said:
Not really. They've opened recruitment a bit. They don't have the same amount of technology as three years ago, but they do have more manpower.
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Fgkun said:
And less technology since a big part of the brotherhood left with the technology most likely.
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You sound like a broken record. The Brotherhood's technology isn't that interesting anyway, considering it's mostly weapons and the weapons I can pull from Big Mountain's facilities are better. Sure, most of them are in a limited scale, but LAERs man. LAERs.
 
Well, I must have overread that. But thanks for being so kind to me about that...


And I would think losing a good portion of your power armors would hurt quite much since you can't just produce new ones without the resources and schematics. You know, have some soldiers who can actually make decisions.
 
Fgkun said:
Well, I must have overread that. But thanks for being so kind to me about that...


And I would think losing a good portion of your power armors would hurt quite much since you can't just produce new ones without the resources and schematics. You know, have some soldiers who can actually make decisions.
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Big Mountain was experimenting with Saturnite power armor. Might take a few years still, since the project's renewal has been on the back burner for a while, but we have the Saturnite and the schematics are probably locked in some drawer somewhere. 


No idea what the last sentence refers to. 
 
Pat said:
Big Mountain was experimenting with Saturnite power armor. Might take a few years still, since the project's renewal has been on the back burner for a while, but we have the Saturnite and the schematics are probably locked in some drawer somewhere. 


No idea what the last sentence refers to. 
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Correction, Saturnite armor. On the bright side though, the concept of it being used AS armor has been proven. Or maybe I should just make a Scorpitron-like monster. Not a Roboscorpian, a Scorpitron. What the Roboscorpian was actually based off.
 
What my real bread and butter is though are the Securitrons. They're better than Sentry Bots, and roughly equal to Paladins. And that's just the MK II. A minority are from Big Mountain, yet go all the way up the MK VI. I doubt there's much in the wasteland that could go up against that, aside from the Deathclaw. I'm basically the Hyperion of the Fallout series.
 
Actually, now I know how to feasibly make a Flying Securitron. I just need to produce a Saturnite Securitron and strap a custom-made jet pack onto it, instead of making some weaker non-titanium aluminum alloy as the armor.
 
Between actually retrieving the OS from one of the damaged securitrons, reverse engineering it from the two damaged versions and updating every one of your Securitrons as well as doing the necessary hardware changes, this could take many years. Even if you miraculously manage to find intact copies in a research building that survived collapses, radiation and all kinds of animals chewing through who knows what. And then there's the Saturnite stuff that will take just as long, I would presume.


Meaning that this will probably not be of any significance in the RP.
 
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Fgkun said:
Between actually retrieving the OS from one of the damaged securitrons, reverse engineering it from the two damaged versions and updating every one of your Securitrons as well as doing the necessary hardware changes, this could take many years. Even if you miraculously manage to find intact copies in a research building that survived collapses, radiation and all kinds of animals chewing through who knows what. And then there's the Saturnite stuff that will take just as long, I would presume.


Meaning that this will probably not be of any significance in the RP.
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Reverse engineering it? Doctor 0 was the brain in a jar that made it. It's also likely there's redundancy drives, since this is a Research and Development Facility. The hardware would be difficult, as it would take a few years to assemble the right parts to upgrade all Securitrons, but it wouldn't be impossible, given Doctor Mobius has been cranking out Roboscorpians almost as much as he's been popping Mentats, implying he has the resources required to produce relatively complex electronics, titanium, and lasers. The Saturnite plant would be operable in a year I bet, since it's just a glorified foundry. Saturnite is a lot less complex, and Vegas has secured a lot of Saturnite. From Big Mountain, to the Sierra Madre Casino. Even from the Divide.
 
The MK I and MK II Securitron Operating Systems also required no other upgrade than the software. It's possible, since Big Mountain just reverse engineered it originally, likely not changing much, that further Operating Systems can be added without requiring any actual change.
 
Still, I think it would take more time to do all of it. Definitely not ready when the RP starts and arguably not in some 2 or 3 years after it. After all, the Securitrons were developed in 2066 and the MKII alone took eleven years. Who knows how long it took Big MT. And I don't fancy letting probability go just how you want it to go.
 
Fgkun said:
Still, I think it would take more time to do all of it. Definitely not ready when the RP starts and arguably not in some 2 or 3 years after it. After all, the Securitrons were developed in 2066 and the MKII alone took eleven years. Who knows how long it took Big MT. And I don't fancy letting probability go just how you want it to go.
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With that 11 years they've reverse engineered Securitrons, developed twelve new operating systems, made two distinct variants, and made Muggy. It's part of the lore that the Securitrons haven't really been touched since the Great War, and have since gone rogue.


This progress definitely still remains, the Securitron Deconstruction Plant has been hardly touched by the Great War, and the only thing that's been in and out are Securitrons. Doctor 0 is still alive. The Securitrons wandering around would just need to be pacified or rounded up and have their software be downloaded if either source lacks the entirety of the puzzle pieces.


We have the upgrades rolling around in Securitrons patrolling Big Mountain. We have blue prints on the walls of the facility and (likely) data within the on-site server or a holotape, possibly already in the Think Tank Dome itself. We even have the brain in a jar that made said upgrades.


The MK II upgrade also included buffs for Mr. House's missile defense network and a variety of other systems in the Lucky 38. Since a new mass upgrade would only require the Securitron part, and, there's no seen difference between these and the Big Mountain Securitrons, since Doctor 0 just bought these from Robco, it's more likely it is software than it isn't, and it would take less time to develop. That said, I reiterate...


This software already exists, the man that had brought it into this world is alive, and the data behind it's development likely still exists. Which would make the biggest problem behind this the initial scavenging of these operating systems and the mass upgrades themselves.


To bring this to a conclusion, the MK III Operating System is probably very close at hand for all Securitrons, if not already here. Since we don't even really have to research it. It's been three years and we would have most of the data right on the front porch. Furthermore, other higher Operating Systems are used by the Free Economic Zones, though in a noticeably smaller scale. Given we have a possible production facility within the Securitron Vault, possibly a maintenance facility of some sort under the Lucky 38, the Securitron Deconstruction Plant and a few other factories, we would crank out a handful (8-16) of Securitrons every year. More if we used Saturnite instead.


You didn't really address my line of thought with the Saturnite, so I don't know what you thoughts are on that. The Saturnite Facility is mostly untouched (aside from minimal damage from the nearby exposed lava vein it was intentionally built next to) since it's been protected by Mr. Gutsy units, and all you really need to do is reheat old Saturnite, properly separate the components, then reforge it in the shape of whatever you want.


Again, we have a lot of Saturnite. There's the Giant Roboscorpian we could scavenge, there's an even larger one in the junkyard we could scavenge, there's knives in the Sierra Madre Casino, there's Saturnite power fists, there's Saturnite tipped artillery shells, there's the headquarters of the company that sells the Saturnite knives and possibly other products in the Divide. There's a multitude of Saturnite ingots in the Saturnite Facility, there's a few crates and cargo containers that likely contain Saturnite. All we would have to do is get the forge working again, and, if this is a legitimate comparison, the Pitt has done it, the Commonwealth Forged did it. Yes, with steel, but that shows an ex-BOS member and even raiders can just walk into a foundry and get it working again. So why wouldn't it be possible for the greatest minds of the prewar world to do the same?


And the reason I use words like possible or likely is because it's up to discussion. Because I'm acknowledging it's, borrowing a phrase from Big Mountain here- unpossible. How about you adopt my viewpoint. I say something could happen, and then, just because I say it could, you completely disregard what I said and say no because I... Would like it to happen?


So when you see those words, maybe provide a reason for these things not to happen based off evidence. Because when you see them, you see, I understand that I don't know myself. 
 
Well, Doctor 0 being the man who made it doesn't mean that much since he like all other members of the think tank has faulty memory. I just assumed that the production facility was in a bad shape like most of the others who have been infested by cazadores laying eggs wherever they want and nightstalkers - being rodents - biting through cables. And since I don't know much about programming, I didn't want to just assume that taking the two damaged kinds of securitrons and putting their software together like a puzzle would yield any real results. I'm saying that it's based on chance whether the software is still in functional and easily reparable existence. Since I didn't want to reinstall Fallout NV and progress to Big MT, I just assumed what I deemed most probable.


And with Saturnite... I'm pretty sure smeltering this substance is very complicated and something that could definitely also be lost in some way.


The reason I don't give you any "evidence" like you want to call it is because you are also not giving me any evidence that your assumptions actually are what happens. You're telling me if all this time on almost everything and I'm telling you that with so many ifs, there's bound to be at the very least one case where probability says nope and you need to add a good amount of years on the process.


I never said that it's impossible, it's just that I think it will take longer than you think. From the way you have been telling it to me up to the post before your last, it sounded to me like you wanted to have fully upgraded MKVI Securitrons from the start and then quickly upgrade them. And from a game balance perspective,  it seems far too strong to be in someone's hands. Stronger than Liberty Prime and stronger than the artillery they have up North.
 
Fgkun said:
Well, Doctor 0 being the man who made it doesn't mean that much since he like all other members of the think tank has faulty memory. I just assumed that the production facility was in a bad shape like most of the others who have been infested by cazadores laying eggs wherever they want and nightstalkers - being rodents - biting through cables. And since I don't know much about programming, I didn't want to just assume that taking the two damaged kinds of securitrons and putting their software together like a puzzle would yield any real results. I'm saying that it's based on chance whether the software is still in functional and easily reparable existence. Since I didn't want to reinstall Fallout NV and progress to Big MT, I just assumed what I deemed most probable.


And with Saturnite... I'm pretty sure smeltering this substance is very complicated and something that could definitely also be lost in some way.


The reason I don't give you any "evidence" like you want to call it is because you are also not giving me any evidence that your assumptions actually are what happens. You're telling me if all this time on almost everything and I'm telling you that with so many ifs, there's bound to be at the very least one case where probability says nope and you need to add a good amount of years on the process.


I never said that it's impossible, it's just that I think it will take longer than you think. From the way you have been telling it to me up to the post before your last, it sounded to me like you wanted to have fully upgraded MKVI Securitrons from the start and then quickly upgrade them. And from a game balance perspective,  it seems far too strong to be in someone's hands. Stronger than Liberty Prime and stronger than the artillery they have up North.
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A major plot point is that Doctor Mobius has intentionally wiped their memories of a world beyond Big Mountain. They don't have memory loss, they've been memory wiped. Securitrons wouldn't fall into that category. The Berserk and Damaged Securitrons still actually work, in both programming and arsenal. They're only unable to differentiate friendlies from foes due to 200 years of neglect. Plus there's actually blueprints of Securitrons literally cluttering the walls of the Deconstruction Plant, so it's not like they wouldn't save the combat A.I. itself. Which, even if it were somehow destroyed, you could still walk up to the many Securitrons that it currently lies within and yank it out. Or just ask nicely for Doctor 0 to replicate his results. You're saying all three of these sources are somehow all inadequate. That's hypocritical given how you've been with the maybes. 


Doctor Mobius has been tinkering with Saturnite ever since before the Great War, even afterwards with the Giant Roboscorpian. The supplies would be here, the facilities are here, and the knowledge is definitely recorded, if not memorized.


The major problems with getting the Saturnite forge running again would be: getting the heat source itself operational, finding/recording the recipe/scavenging old Saturnite we want to reforge, and acquiring further materials. It's basically like making aircraft aluminum. You get aluminum, then you add a minuscule part of another element or two to it, and bingo! You have something that's mostly like aluminum, but which doesn't dent, bend, or just in general fall apart easily. Same science applies here. We're using multiple materials to make one super material.
 
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