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Fallout based Nationbuilding
- Thread starter TheIrradiatedWaffle
- Start date
If the west brotherhood had vertibird schematics, they would have used them already. Therefore, they probably don't have them. And just because you are a member of the Enclave, you don't need to have schematics. Similarly, Dr. Li doesn't have a clue about biology while Virgil knows nothing about fusion reactors. So you only have ED-E. And according to the wiki, ED-E only has data on duraframe research and Poseidon Energy. So nothing about Vertibirds.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
We don't know what the West Coast Brotherhood of Steel has been doing. The only other possibility is that the NCR has them, since they likely have absorbed the Shi.
And vertibirds have have recently been retconned into being somewhat common prewar aircraft. So I doubt that a combination of Big Mountain scientists, Daisy, and the Boomers couldn't get cobble together some blueprints by drawing from their past knowledge, know-how, and by studying the one they already have.
Yeah...regarding that. Big MT is dead and riddled with Cazadores which are the worst creatures to ever live in the wasteland. The boomers had trouble with a bomber from the 20th century and the wiki actually says that the NCR got a fleet of vertibirds and that said blueprints are neither with the brotherhood nor the NCR. According to it, the Eastern Brotherhood and the Enclave are the only parties capable of producing Vertibirds and T-60 power armors. Also, I haven't heard anything about vVertibirds officially being retconned to pre-war technology. I read up on all of that as I thought about my faction and the Vertibirds in the Commonwealth are up to speculations right now.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
How do you explain the vertibirds around the Commonwealth prior to the BOS's arrival? How about the one in the prewar sequence? Or how about the one when you go and get the power armor in the Concord museum, there's a vertibird crashed into the roof, that has a prewar soldier's holotape nearby, who talks about in the holotape that his vertibird crashed into the roof following the Great War. Even the Coast Guard have a vertibird.
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Pat
Three Thousand Club
There's six disembodied scientists in jars there, and the place has been cleared of hostiles. If the six greatest prewar American minds can't do it, and to be honest, they have done pretty incredible things, then vertibirds are more complicated than rocket science.
Refer to this
According to the Wiki, the Vertibird is a technology that was researched before the great war and Prototypes were finished even before the great war, which apparently were tested in the Commonwealth.
They are all insane and have no reason to help you. Their experiments all failed in at least one aspect and endangered everyone in the Mojave.
According to the Wiki, the Vertibird is a technology that was researched before the great war and Prototypes were finished even before the great war, which apparently were tested in the Commonwealth.
They are all insane and have no reason to help you. Their experiments all failed in at least one aspect and endangered everyone in the Mojave.
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Pat
Three Thousand Club
Cazadors aren't even the worst thing in Big Mountain. The Securitrons are more dangerous, and I think the nightstalkers or cyberdogs come in a close second, but a majority of enemies would've been cleared out during the events of the DLC, afterwards, it would just be one massive clean-up operation.
That's your interpretation. I don't see why the courier alone would remove most of the threats in this whole vicinity. We need to move away from game mechanics a bit and more to treating the protagonists like normal humans. And while you surely can clear out Big MT with enough firepower and time, it probably isn't worth all of this as you can't use all of its resources with how limited New Vegas is in its researchers. And to me, Cazadores are the worst thing in existence.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
Cite where it says they were tested in the Commonwealth, and where they got that information.
What it says here...
[COLOR= rgb(57, 66, 77)]"Despite never entering full-service, numerous models were disseminated into various federal and private applications, and saw use in armed conflicts across the globe."[/COLOR]
[COLOR= rgb(57, 66, 77)]Which is located basically at the beginning, basically means that this isn't originally Enclave technology anymore, and are used by various American organizations. That makes it very possible that Big Mountain produced the vertibird, since they were making lots of weapons to win the war with China.[/COLOR]
Pat
Three Thousand Club
Whatever was left wouldn't of held out against waves of Sentry Bots, Cyber Dogs, and Roboscorpians. Maybe even some Securitrons.
TheIrradiatedWaffle
The Only Cool Waffle You'll Ever Meet
so....
Possible doesn't mean that you can just twist everything how you like it. It's still possible that the Enclave researched it or West Tek. Since Big MT in its latter stages was founded by investors and not the state and the Vertibirds were used by state organisations mostly, it makes more sense for West Tek or the Enclave to have developed them.
And if your courier is at least somewhat smart, he must have realized that these smartest minds of pre war time are now batshit crazy and can't even look after themselves, much less a scientific problem. They unleashed Cazadores and Nightstalkers on the world, caused the Divide, made the gas, holograms and hazmat suits for the Sierra Madre and you still trust them with developing technology for you?
And if your courier is at least somewhat smart, he must have realized that these smartest minds of pre war time are now batshit crazy and can't even look after themselves, much less a scientific problem. They unleashed Cazadores and Nightstalkers on the world, caused the Divide, made the gas, holograms and hazmat suits for the Sierra Madre and you still trust them with developing technology for you?
Pat
Three Thousand Club
Big Mountain always had a small team of highly intelligent researchers commanding armies of interns anyway. Higgs Village only has the former houses of the disembodied brains, and, when you read the computer terminals, few of the other staff appear particularly intelligent or valued.
RIPSaidCone
tolmie
I agree with Fgkun, you can't just interept things in a way that benefits you personally. Weren't you the one that was so concerned over the integrity of the RP and following Fallout lore?
Pat
Three Thousand Club
They only negotiated with Sinclair so they could slip the Cloud into his casino and test hazmat suits.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
I never said it was how I was going to absolutely have it. Saying something is possible is a far cry from me saying it's what I'm considering canon.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
They made advancements in science at the cost of some human flesh. What's the big deal?
In all seriousness though, the Courier can make them more human. Emotionally, that is. They all sorta realize that some advancements were made at too high a price.
Even if you get them to behave somewhat normally (which is also a stretch) they are still a crazy mess of their former self. Besides, all these ifs seem very unrealistic to me. I think it's time for @TheIrradiatedWaffle to decide now based on the argumentations.
TheIrradiatedWaffle
The Only Cool Waffle You'll Ever Meet
I stopped listening so, give me a plain rundown of the to arguements
Arguments for having a base of scientists in Big MT and being able to produce Vertibirds:
-The members of the Think Tank are still alive and can oversee the not really qualified population of New Vegas
-Pat thinks that the Courier is able to convince the Think Tank to both help New Vegas and adopt a more ethical approach to testing
-Big MT can be cleared out from the nightstalkers, cazadores, lobotomees and all the other hostiles with help of Mobius roboscorpions that somehow are on the courier's side in that conflict
-The Vertibird prototype was evidently around pre war and it may be that Big MT or the five Enclave Remnants have blueprints
Arguments against this:
-The Think Tank consists of completely deranged individuals that are not able to research the proper, safe and right way any more
-Having seen what the Think Tank has brought upon the Wasteland, being the Chaos in the Divide, the Sierra Madre and the threat of Cazadores and Nightstalkers, nobody in his rioght mind would trust them with science to be used by the general populace. Not even the courier.
-The Vertibird was distributed mostly to military organizations. Big MT was privately sponsored. Therefore, it makes most sense that the Enclave or West Tek developed the Vertibird, meaning that Big MT doesn't have blueprints. And because of their apparent fails in almost every other field that you can see if you explore Big MT in the game, I do not think that they would be able to reverse engineer them.
-If the Mojave Brotherhood department were to find this out, they would immediately abandon New Vegas because this is a direct conflict to their ethos.
-The members of the Think Tank are still alive and can oversee the not really qualified population of New Vegas
-Pat thinks that the Courier is able to convince the Think Tank to both help New Vegas and adopt a more ethical approach to testing
-Big MT can be cleared out from the nightstalkers, cazadores, lobotomees and all the other hostiles with help of Mobius roboscorpions that somehow are on the courier's side in that conflict
-The Vertibird prototype was evidently around pre war and it may be that Big MT or the five Enclave Remnants have blueprints
Arguments against this:
-The Think Tank consists of completely deranged individuals that are not able to research the proper, safe and right way any more
-Having seen what the Think Tank has brought upon the Wasteland, being the Chaos in the Divide, the Sierra Madre and the threat of Cazadores and Nightstalkers, nobody in his rioght mind would trust them with science to be used by the general populace. Not even the courier.
-The Vertibird was distributed mostly to military organizations. Big MT was privately sponsored. Therefore, it makes most sense that the Enclave or West Tek developed the Vertibird, meaning that Big MT doesn't have blueprints. And because of their apparent fails in almost every other field that you can see if you explore Big MT in the game, I do not think that they would be able to reverse engineer them.
-If the Mojave Brotherhood department were to find this out, they would immediately abandon New Vegas because this is a direct conflict to their ethos.
Pat
Three Thousand Club
Did you ever finish the DLC the 'good' way? Don't worry about the last bit. We made sure to bury the Lobotomites deep.
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Pat
Three Thousand Club
This here is titled as the 'best ending.' So I'm assuming the Think Tank were successfully convinced to step down and they realized the errors of their ways.
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It's not about the lobotomites. It's about collaborating with abominations like the members of the Think Tank that are proven to have ruined a good part of the Mojave wasteland with their uncontrolled technology. And you want to resume exactly that. I see no way how you can keeo the Brotherhood on your side with that.