[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

Cyl.. one thought here.. You have a DB intended as a crazy do all the background filler roles person (hi that's Argis, I know he's a 100xp or more behind you at this point, but w/e). He's got bureaucracy and socialize firmly on his to do list. He can effectively run this organization thing.


Also, and more of a larger point really, do what you want with the character? You built a night and then things changed on you. That doesn't mean you have to conform to the mold. You can be a sneak thief who blackmails people into oaths or whatever. You can be a thief of power and sneak around learning charms from other exalts or gods or whatever you want to. You don't have to become mr face man just because you are an eclipse. A large chunk of the group is actually decently equipped to handle that, and I'm guessing that's a probable direction for Rhapsody?


So, I guess its only a problem if you actually want to RP in all directions.
 
Feantari said:
Cyl.. one thought here.. You have a DB intended as a crazy do all the background filler roles person (hi that's Argis, I know he's a 100xp or more behind you at this point, but w/e). He's got bureaucracy and socialize firmly on his to do list. He can effectively run this organization thing.
Also, and more of a larger point really, do what you want with the character? You built a night and then things changed on you. That doesn't mean you have to conform to the mold. You can be a sneak thief who blackmails people into oaths or whatever. You can be a thief of power and sneak around learning charms from other exalts or gods or whatever you want to. You don't have to become mr face man just because you are an eclipse. A large chunk of the group is actually decently equipped to handle that, and I'm guessing that's a probable direction for Rhapsody?


So, I guess its only a problem if you actually want to RP in all directions.
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If nothing else, Fangs is likely going to take some Social Combat charms, because I've found I've used them fairly heavily, and Death Badger is about where I want it to be anyway.
 
CrazyIvan said:
Seriously, Siham is close to "This is a fully armed and operational battle station" levels of crafting
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This sentence inspired the following chain of thoughts:


"I want to build a death star, but without a factory cathedral, I'll need to use Wyld Shaping Technique"


"I cannot Shape anything larger than a person in the Wyld and then take it through the Wyld Gate"


"Solution: Build Unicron, who is in turn made of thousands of person-sized robots"
 
@CrazyIvan : your points expressed really precisely the whole problem.


Malek is nowhere near being a nuclear weapon... he's actually the exact opposite.


He's the maintenance guy.


If "the dressing" doesn't matter at all (I'm sure Tirana would probably smile and silently disagree), then indeed I deluded myself thinking I made investments while I was in fact wasting xp indeed.


You are basically telling me "what you did will never matter because exalts fuck shit up".... which is exactly the same conclusion I reached and to deal with it, I'm considering relying on powerful allies.


Pit essence users against essence users... and you're telling me that no, definitely, it's not going to work.


In a way you're not wrong... when you got Death Stars, abyssals lawnmowers and death badgers around... what good are Martial Artists going to be anyway ?!


That is the thing. I want them to be useful. I want 10 000 battle trained ants to take down the giant even if it means losing 75% of them.


I invested in them. 180 xp in total... I just checked.


And you're telling me it was for nothing, that they can't and won't ever get anything done and I should have just stuck to raw power, because oppression and BFGs are the only things that work in Exalted.


Remember the disagreement we had on spell damage in mass combat ?


Same root. :)


Neo & Trinity died but their actions meant as much as all the guys that fought off the machines for countless hours while the couple took their fucking time over a series of obstacles during one lame ass movie.


Without the little guys buying them time to save the day with their lives, all that Neo & Trinity accomplished and died for would have been for nothing.


Without both everyone dies at the end, humans & machines.


I hope I've expressed my expectations about followers and allies clearly for once; for that much xp (sorry JT if I made your eyeballs bleed :D ), I think I need a much more than distant empty shades wriggling in the background.


Perhaps I should drop all ambitions as you advise and just go with sticking to my initial plan, MA - Dodge - Stealth - Larceny - Investigation, finding shadowing and taking down the bad guys (disarming the enemy's nukes), abandon the Dominion and let the socially capable do their thing while I do mine (they'll call me when they need an oath sealed)...


But I'm not going to, not after that many efforts and investment. I'd rather drop Malek or rewrite him.


I guess I will soon be either accepting a partial refund or making a new character if the ST fully agrees with that.


And I'm glad you guys took the time to answer and helped me get to precisely what was the trouble.


I was already ready to say goodbye to Malek before when he was compromised, I'll put him to rest in a heartbeat the moment the ST tells me that, all things considered, he is not fit for the type of realm building game we're playing.


As we said before, Melia would be a much better candidate for an Eclipse, she could inherit her brother's exaltation keeping the link with Flicker, and since she's been power awarded ever since the middle of Chapter 2 (I madeher when I was still under 100xp, now I'm above 500) no one will be surprised to see her being already good at what she does.


@Feantari : to seal an oath you have to show up. Even if you have planned everything long in advance and the other guy has no choice but to accept, you still have to physically be there... so physical and social combat must always be on your mind. Problem is, I'm good at neither... because I became a savior of masses instead.


And even with 140xp I'm so far behind what I'd have to be to be either a social or a physical nuclear weapon that it's not even worth trying at this point, it's just too late, I'll never catch up.
 
That's why you have other PCs that can like, have your back and crap. Good lord. It's like the combat character saying yeah but guys I have to be sneaky or they will just run away or but guys I don't know what guy to hit. You have a lunar mate with a perfect defend other.


I don't think the skills you have picked up for Malek are wasted at all. What I'm saying is figure out what you want Malek to do or what sort of version of him would be fun and meaningful to you. Most if the PCs have developed organically based on the needs of the situations we've been in. I like that. I actually really hate that Siham was so heavily edited. If none of us are the perfect pinnacle of thing x but we need to do thing x then we can undoubtedly come up with a plan. This doesn't need to be a square hole round peg sort of thing. You just have to decide if you are willing to involve other characters in your plans.
 
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Well, to start with, big death machines and martial arts are not incompatible. Heck, in Exalted, the Sun itself can turn into a giant warstrider that knows Martial Arts, because Exalted. ;)


Neither are Allies and Followers unimportant. Mortal soldiers can't stand up to an Abyssal, sure -- but elite soldiers and martial artists can cut a swathe through a horde of dumbass zombies. If an Abyssal attacks by himself, the Exalted of Cross handle him. If he brings an army, then having a well-trained force of Followers led by a heroic mortal Ally able to mop them up while you go one-on-one with the deathknight is invaluable.
 
Feantari said:
That's why you have other PCs that can like, have your back and crap. Good lord. It's like the combat character saying yeah but guys I have to be sneaky or they will just run away or but guys I don't know what guy to hit. You have a lunar mate with a perfect defend other.
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Also, this. You pretty much cannot die within visual range of her as long as she's alive and has Essence. You don't need to become a nuke, Flicker can become one for you. A nuke with an army.
 
Arynne said:
Well, to start with, big death machines and martial arts are not incompatible. Heck, in Exalted, the Sun itself can turn into a giant warstrider that knows Martial Arts, because Exalted. ;)
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I am truly sad that this is going away in 3E. So far, it's my only objection to the new edition. :(
 
*snip stuff from cyl, because long post is long*


You've missed the point entirely.


I get that you like followers, in their various forms. But it's a poor mechanical choice.


That's fine. A character who can't use several of the fundamental utility spells of Sorcery is a poor mechanical choice.


But just own it. Embrace it. That's fine. But what you can't do is then complain that you've made that choice. You can be, for lack of a better example, Jesus, with your cadre of enlightened followers off to take on the world. You can be a master thief. You can be a Kung Fu Master. You can be the man with a golden tongue, who could talk his way onto being the Scarlet Emperor.


What you cannot be is Emperor Kung Fu Jesus, who moonlights as Batman. Exalted doesn't work that way.


If you want to go with followers, great. There are all kinds of things followers can do that are super-handy. But what they can't do is all the things the Circle can do, and trying to build them like they're a stand alone force that are going to match high Essence Exalts is flawed. So let them be good at the things they're good at.


It's this that feels like the core problem to me - you're spec'ing Malek like he's in a solo campaign that just has some mouthy and uncooperative NPCs. You don't need to be a Social Monster - that's what you send Fangs to do. You don't need Kung Fu - that's what Mirror and Flicker are for.
 
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The problem is I had a plan formed for Malek's development.


I had a direction. It relied on a series of elements that took quite a while to gather, neglecting his personal power to get there faster.


And now I've got almost everything I need, but I can't reach the next stage of his development.


Let's go back to CI's mutually assured destruction example, maybe you'll understand the problem better.


There are a few threat levels that can be identified:


1- Unstoppable forces (the Juggernaut)


2- High essence users (Tirana - Deathlords - 3rd Circle Demons)


3- Highly specialized and dangerous individuals (Words - Legion - Void Heart - Tirana's boys - Sondok)


4- Highly trained and powerful groups (Sanctuary - the Wyld Hunt - Armies of Darkness)


5- Moderately powerful individuals & groups (demons - the undead - rogue spirit - Terrestrials)


6- Hostile extras


My plan with PAP & SEB mortals was to take care of levels 4-5-6 without necessarily requiring the Circle's intervention, and help dealing with level 3 as well.


IMHO only a few of us can handle a level 3 threat right now; Fangs & Mirror and possibly Flicker.


If we're all together we can probably deal with a level 2, but Siham is the only one who can help with a level 1 at the moment.


And he needs to focus on that, the same way that Fangs & Mirror need to focus on level 3 and getting as efficient as possible dealing with level 2.


Now I am not saying that other members of the Circle shouldn't help with level 4, on the contrary, the faster we can deal with those the faster we'll get to the level 3 and 2, but as soon as the 2nd chapter Malek was built for handling level 4 and below so that others could focus on level 3 and above.


Pretty much like Argis I think, but for different reasons.


He's Mr Consolidation - Security - Maintenance, not a combat monster, or a social monster.


His purpose is to know who's the target (which is not to say that it has to be a military target), where we can find it, when we have to intervene... and take a team and other members of the Circle if needed and deal with it.


When facing multiple threats, either in the same place or several, he's the guy who can say, "go ahead guys, me and my boys we got this" so that others don't have to waste motes on level 4 threats and can focus on levels 3 & 2... because the opposite cannot be achieved.


While Fangs & Mirror can deal with level 4 because the powers they chose quickly allowed them to, if they do have to do this, they won't have much to go on when facing level 3 and above.


But Malek, cannot deal with level 3+ because I devoted most of my xp to ensuring he was able to handle level 4 and be extremely efficient at it without having to spend tons of motes.


The whole point of Malek is to have someone else's back in situations like these.


Basically, if some guys in the Circle are the Avengers, and Malek & Argis command S.H.I.E.L.D.


Our resources and agents help you reach further and focus on the important matters while we deal with the rest... because we can't do it ourselves... and if we weren't there you couldn't go as far either.


It's a team effort.


I speak in threat levels but it's the same thing with logistics and other type of crises.


Why did 4 characters pick up training charms while Fangs could summon all the first circle demons in Malfeas ?


So that we did not have to demand from her that she stuck to summoning and wait on her while crises raged on.


We needed to go faster and have the resources ready and close by in order to adapt in case magical resources weren't there.


That is the same logic I'm following with SEB and PAP, the allies network, sail charms & almost everything I've bought, and what I was planning on doing next.


Better have thousands of guns and grenades ready to be deployed at any moment than relying on a few unloaded bazookas with a limited amount of rockets and a nuke.


And even if we can prepare the loading of the bazookas and push the red button of the nuke case well in advance, having the guns & grenades around will help ensuring our victory is complete.


Malek's greatest weapon is not his fists or his powers.


It's the Dominion. The weaker it is, the weaker he is, so obviously I'm trying to make it as strong and resilient as I can.


Which is why Projects & empowering others are vital for him. That is the source of his power and usefulness.


If I can't take it to the next level, I have to redefine him... again.


A key element here is that while the game put the mechanics in place to go where I'm going (you even have promotion charms in Integrity, Presence and Socialize IIRC), it never did quite prepare to properly handle things on this kind of scale... that's why the ST gave us Projects.


I put almost everything into building S.H.I.E.L.D. with Cross. That was always the plan ever since chapter 2.


And without the ability to enlighten mortals available to the Circle, Malek gets stuck at level 6 threats and his current powers barely help him reach level 5.


I could turn back now and focus on personal power to try to catch up to level 4-3.


It would be easy, essence 5, Larceny - Dodge - MA, I specialize in stealing the other guys' toys and voila, I became a fucking nightmare in a fight, anyone unable to do MA or who doesn't have a backup weapon is completely screwed.


I studied that possibility. But I don't feel like doing that because the mechanics don't allow me another alternative.
 
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Jesus cyl, that was long.


Look, this is a game where logistics, long range intel and power projection can make a difference.


That's Malek's role.


Don't waste XPs on Charms you won't be using, Malek is more than capable to recruit a TMA teacher.


That's what he does, he finds the right people and puts them in the right places.
 
Alright, I have...120 XP to spend :oops: Most of that is doubling-down on the whole devotion to her mate thing. IC and OOC thoughts and justifications here:


It is through my mate that the Neverborn will be defeated, and it is through me that my mate will be redeemed.


Raise Solar Bond to 5


Sacred Guardian Renewal


Moon Follows Sun Assurance


Lunar Eclipse Technique


Silver Bride Mercy


Love Endures


Faithful Companion Redemption


Basically, Cunning Fangs goes whole-hog on the Solar Mate train, including the charms that enhance it, and the charms to shut off Resonance.


Twice now have I nearly died and left my mate's Exaltation in danger. Twice now have I been too weak. Mine is a tale of suffering, and there is yet more to bear. I will not be so weak again.





Boosting Stamina from 1 to 2, 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 (ouch):


Bruise Relief Method


Halting the Scarlet Flow


That's right, Cunning Fangs is working out! Or more to the point, the thing Malek mentioned hit home for her - this is but the beginning of her struggle. I was going to hold off on these being 'active' until the scene I requested in the Manse with Mirror after Ankss is burnt to the ground chastised.


I have seen beyond, and beyond seeing I have come to...understand.


Boost Lore to 4


Seems appropriate.


Playing on the best part of Malek has proven successful, but it is only desire I can compel in another. But there are other emotions, just as useful.


Perfect Fear Scent


Doing my slow boost of Fangs' social combat prowess.
 
Fine by me, but at least write us a montage or something for that amazing increase of stamina! =)
 
xarvh said:
Fine by me, but at least write us a montage or something for that amazing increase of stamina! =)
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No worries - and like I said, I was intending them to go active in a particular scene I'd like to do with Mirror post-Ankss.
 
xarvh said:
Jesus cyl, that was long.
Look, this is a game where logistics, long range intel and power projection can make a difference.


That's Malek's role.


Don't waste XPs on Charms you won't be using, Malek is more than capable to recruit a TMA teacher.


That's what he does, he finds the right people and puts them in the right places.
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I'm sorry for the length of my previous posts, the last one though, I think is pretty much to the point.


I don't mind spending 40xp on a TMA I'm never going to use if it's something that fits the bg.


Obviously I'm not going to do it right now since Flicker already knows it and I must first be able to defend him properly.


I understand that enlightening mortals on a massive scale can be a scary thing, but remember that one spell / artifact / warstrider / high essence user can be enough to reduce all the TMA mortals to bits of bloody meat quite rapidly so it's not like it's a unchallengeable advantage we'll have.


It will surely give us a nice boost against all conventional and a few unconventional opponents, but it's not going to break the balance of power... not while you have Deathlords and Juggernauts around :)


We'll start slow with a Project for the Ninja Clan and the Dojo, we'll see how that goes, and then if pertinent, we'll prepare for the next phase.


I'll do some more thinking about what's best for Malek at this point.


Essence is pretty much a given, as well as dodge, and Linguistics feels right (especially the part about unexpected written social attacks, that stuff is spot on for Malek)... I'll see what I'll do with what's left.


@Arynne : be sending you a post soon so we can work on the Ninja Clan together.
 
@CrazyIvan : considering how Fangs has been mentoring Malek, I thought it could interest her to mentor others. A sorcery "academy" in Cross couldn't hurt the expansion process.


Malek find suitable candidates and get them to Fangs, and she starts initiating them (the good thing about Salinan school is that you don't need classes so that gives you an interesting flexibility).


That could be a really good Project. What do you think ?
 
cyl said:
@CrazyIvan : considering how Fangs has been mentoring Malek, I thought it could interest her to mentor others. A sorcery "academy" in Cross couldn't hurt the expansion process.
Malek find suitable candidates and get them to Fangs, and she starts initiating them (the good thing about Salinan school is that you don't need classes so that gives you an interesting flexibility).


That could be a really good Project. What do you think ?
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Will have an IC post soon, but that's not something Fangs would do to another person.


From a practical sense, it's a good idea, but it's utterly antithetical to her character.
 
What do you mean ? She doesn't want to share her knowledge because she thinks Sorcery is too rough ?


From what I understood, Agatha's Library (or maybe her Cache, I don't remember) contains enough stuff to teach spells and sorcery, so even without her participation we could do it, but would she oppose it ?
 
cyl said:
What do you mean ? She doesn't want to share her knowledge because she thinks Sorcery is too rough ?
From what I understood, Agatha's Library (or maybe her Cache, I don't remember) contains enough stuff to teach spells and sorcery, so even without her participation we could do it, but would she oppose it ?
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Recall that sorcery involves the stations, and the last of those stations is sacrifice.


Consider Fangs' narrative for herself, which is a tale of continuous suffering and sacrifice, that will undoubtedly culminate in a pyre built of equal parts Sorcery and Freeing her Mate.


Add in that she does have a ludicrously high Compassion score.


Why would she help someone else start down that path? But yeah, somewhere between Fangs' manse and the Library I'm pretty sure we have a copy of the Black and White Treatise floating around, which is enough to self-initiate sorcery. If not, it's a pretty trivial acquisition - just one Fangs would have no part in.


Now, if someone did initiate Sorcery, Fangs will gladly help teach them. The distinguishing feature, in her mind, is that the damage is already done.
 
I've been trying to get a post in for the last couple days. Things have heated up again and in worried I might not get one in before the weekend. @xarvh, can you puppet Rhapsody until then? I just don't want to fall behind again.
 
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