[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

This... thing the Juggernail is doing... it doesn't look good.


We may have to back the fuck off :confused:
 
Makes sense. I don't have the group stealth charm, so as much as I know it'll pain you to do so, you should probably let Rhapsody borrow your Cloak of Vanishing Escape. You wont need it while escorting the peoples, but she'll need to help maintain a low cover.


And yes, The Juggernaut doing stuff is probably a bad sign.
 
So, this would be one of those times I ask the ST for a bit of ground, if he's feeling generous. I didn't mention anything at all, but would it be possible to activate several charms in preparation for our battle with the ghosts? You asked for it, but I wasn't sure if we were going right away or not. With that said, I can understand either side of the argument.


I'll include them in my post, obviously, if you allow it.
 
JayTee said:
Makes sense. I don't have the group stealth charm, so as much as I know it'll pain you to do so, you should probably let Rhapsody borrow your Cloak of Vanishing Escape. You wont need it while escorting the peoples, but she'll need to help maintain a low cover.
And yes, The Juggernaut doing stuff is probably a bad sign.
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I don't know why but I was sure you had bought the group stealth charm.


If you don't, then Rhapsody can't stay behind, she's too slow and too shiny to be risked in such a hostile environment.


Anyway, the snail may act as a Neo "no" moment... so no biggie.
 
I can solo for a bit if need be. Not like anyone knows what the hell just happened or who did it. I can probably hole up in the Factory Cathedral and use it to build something nasty before leaving.
 
xarvh said:
But the problem is that EotFS does need it, because we want that Tiger Warrior Training to matter.
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Except just awhile ago you had argued that the difference between "Ambitious farmers with sharp sticks" and "A formation of Baidak" being not that big of a deal was Working As Intended.


That's my problem - the Mass Combat rules, and what you intend for them, seems to be something of a moving target to me. Sometimes we want Tiger Warrior Training to matter, sometimes we seem not to.
 
Kacie said:
Given the size of the war strider, and its huge soak & strength, it seems like it ought to be treated as a unit with Magnitude corresponding to how much soak it has -- that was one attempt at a fix I saw somewhere on the internet. I haven't crunched the numbers, but given that the largest are supposed to be siege engines capable of tearing down city fortification walls - seems like the smaller ones should be treated like a small army. Maybe Magnitude 2?


Crazy Ivan, you want to weigh in on this?
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I think they should at least be reflected as a higher magnitude unit, yes.
 
Because Siham's weapon is loud as hell, he's going to avoid assisting with taking out the guards unless absolutely necessary. For now, he's just going to do the batman thing and shadow Rhapsody and Malek.
 
WlfSamurai said:
Seconded (not a word?). I'm a MASSIVE Mecha/Mech fan, but xarvh's system is simple and to the point. No need to change it. And obviously it's the flavor he wants the game to be in.
I realize, as I'm typing, that the discussion hasn't really been about whether we should change them as much as CI pointing that their different. But, incase I miss a vote or something, put me down on the "keep xarvh's" part of the ballot.
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You may find Xarvh's system simple and to the point, but I've ended up rebuilding Fangs after a build that should absolutely synergize into being a nightmare in Mass Combat turned out to have a stategy that mostly involved me standing in the middle of a group of Baidak looking pretty while they did the heavy lifting.


The only time one of the most effective spells in small-scale Mass Combat actual had an effect, Xarvh had already gone from "the MC rules" to "Dramatic wrapup".
 
xarvh said:
@CI: Are you arguing that elite troops are "Ambitious farmers with sharp sticks"?
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I was being somewhat hyperbolic. But my memory of that conversation was that we weren't talking about elite troops - Cyl was mainly surprised that Baidak weren't really all that exceptional at all. And they are elite troops.
 
cyl said:
I doubt Fangs was supposed to be really good at MC or normal combat with a warstrider considering her stats, and I really don't mean to be condescending when I say that.


Warstriders are extremely demanding to be truly efficient (heavy mobility and fatigue values) and they can't really operate for long.


Fangs is not 100% cut for it yet and she can't either use it in MC properly unless she remains a Special Character in a unit, which is cool, because then she can do a lot of damage !


I stand by my suggestion: hit the leader + disengage the unit & repeat until you are able to retreat safely.
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The original build of Cunning Fangs should have been a nightmare in Mass Combat. White Reaper is a mass combat martial art, and Sorcery is a mass combat scale discipline.


Warstriders aren't actually all that demanding - you keep talking about mobility and fatigue values. Cunning Fangs is a Lunar, she has no mobility penalties, and we've yet to be in a battle long enough for fatigue to come into play.


I don't expect to be awesome in Mass Combat. But it would be nice to not be utterly useless, and so far in Mass Combat all I've ever done - and my only means to be effective - are to hand my character over to either an NPC Baidak or a PC with better stats and go to bed.


But as it stands, I'm dreading every time we go to Mass Combat, and I literally cannot see a way to make my character have even the pretense of effectiveness, despite allegedly having the tools the game provides to do this.


TL;DR: Yeah, Tiger Warrior Training should matter. But so should those of us who don't have it, or Fangs' real best course of action is just to summon Sigereth, strap her to the back of one of the Baidak and to call her when its done while she perfects a recipe for a cake made of the blood of innocents and cinnamon. And that seems like...anti-fun.
 
Uff.


The pure fact that you are a demon doesn't make you stronger.


Let's check the stats.


Close Combat: Acc 8, Dam 11L


Ranged Combat: Acc 8, Dam 6L


Soak: 12L


HLs: 14


Perfect Morale


As an MC weapon, this translate into a Acc +4, which is the same for Elite mortals.


Plus they have a fantastic soak and a two to three times the HLs.


Without any Might, they are still pretty badass.


If you want Fangs to be any effective in MC, you should at the very least invest in War.
 
CrazyIvan said:
I think they should at least be reflected as a higher magnitude unit, yes.
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Well that depends.


If you want them to be able to integrate other units, they'd loose their "magnitude bonus" so I'm not sure this is the way we want to go with this one.
 
Also, White Reaper is the shittiest MA style that ever defiled Exalted, short of Ivory Pestel.


It's good only to kill things that you can kill easily already.


You know what?


The fact that you are an Exalt makes you an extra-killing machine.


Do you want to be an organized-extra-killing machine?


Invest in War, per Core rules.
 
xarvh said:
Also, White Reaper is the shittiest MA style that ever defiled Exalted, short of Ivory Pestel.
It's good only to kill things that you can kill easily already.
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Like mortal soldiers. The point was not White Reaper. It's that White Reaper collects a passive bonus from the other thing that cuts through mortals like butter: Sorcery

Do you want to be an organized-extra-killing machine?
Invest in War, per Core rules.
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Except I'm not asking to be an organized extra killing machine. I'm actually asking for the exact opposite. Cunning Fangs isn't leading a unit. She isn't leading an army. She's not trying to take the top of a hill and secure it for The Folks Back Home.


She, and her mate, are alone in the Labrynth. Surrounded by ghosts that she should be able to sythe through like butter, and which with another spell or two probably can't really touch her, let alone hurt her. And yet we are in Mass Combat.


But honestly, I'm fine. Everyone else seems content enough with the rules, so I'll suck it up. But that means I'm avoiding Mass Combat in the future whenever I can.
 
cyl said:
Well that depends.
If you want them to be able to integrate other units, they'd loose their "magnitude bonus" so I'm not sure this is the way we want to go with this one.
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This is exactly how Giant Lunar Warbeasts are represented in the game, and it seems the clearest analog.
 
It's the extras that are organized, not Fangs.


She IS splatting ghosts like butter, only they are so many that it is not enough.


This is why Mirror is leading her to strike where it really hurts.


This is the same very assumption that vanilla MC does.


Contrary to vanilla MC however, our house rules make her area spells much more devastating.
 
xarvh said:
Contrary to vanilla MC however, our house rules make her area spells much more devastating.
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So maybe this is where I'm confused. I'm currently being wielded as a weapon. Which is fine and good and all that. But weapons don't typically get their own actions. So whether or not my spells do anything doesn't really matter, because I've never had a circumstance where it's not a better idea to be following someone else.
 
You can both stop to let Fangs cast something.


Usual DV penalty, but you will still be covering each other's asses.


Not sure how we should handle the timing though.


If the vanilla MC's long ticks are good, then we can have spells of any circle cast within a single action.


Maybe just sticking to a single long-ticks action of Speed 3 for Terrestrial, Speed 4 for Celestial and Speed 5 for Solar spells?


Suggestions?
 
xarvh said:
You can both stop to let Fangs cast something.
Usual DV penalty, but you will still be covering each other's asses.


Not sure how we should handle the timing though.


If the vanilla MC's long ticks are good, then we can have spells of any circle cast within a single action.


Maybe just sticking to a single long-ticks action of Speed 3 for Terrestrial, Speed 4 for Celestial and Speed 5 for Solar spells?


Suggestions?
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That seems reasonable enough.
 
So, you are following her lead as a special character. What's weird at the moment is that its the two of you. Normally the unit would act at the direction of the commander and then the special characters would act (with the benefit of the commander). As a special character you could make an attack or cast a spell. This is pretty edge case, but what is happening is that an organized force is attaching you and so mirror is leveraging her understanding of what the hell they are doing to make you more effective (because without her you'd have a penalty for being a solo unit in mass combat, which isn't the end of the word either, but *shrug*).
 
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