[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[xarvh]

Your priorities, from my vantage viewing position (in no order):


1) Tirana's population transfer


2) Address Tirana's request for reparations (Fangs)


3) Kalak's people in Mirunda (Rhapsody?)


4) Consolidation of Cross, secure stable food supply


And maybe send someone around to get more news about the area, since basically you are living in a cave.


Zenjo and Lookshy have been waiting for almost 6 months, Two Worlds has been waiting for more, they won't become a priority all of the sudden.

 

[cyl]

Okay so I took the liberty of reading the scene in Ankss again.


http://www.rpdom.com/threads/chapter-3-scene-24-echoes-from-a-cold-home.53287/


They may have been jerks, but they are nowhere near being that bad as any of us that was present in that scene could seriously let them get hurt... I know I said I wanted to see this IC, but I prefer to give you a fair warning, Malek (and most likely some others) will not like with the idea of letting the couple go there unsupervised if they openly say they want payback.


They may have killed Berek, but they were justified. The guy kinda stole their future.


We should seriously consider giving the hatchlings back to Ankss IC... as they are not ours... and it is not our place to raise them.


Oh and last but not least... they are Sun God Worshippers.


I'm kinda having the feeling that we're not being the good guys here.


EDIT: to be clear: I don't want to ruin your fun if that is what you want to do.


I can only advise you don't bring it up IC and do your thing on the side, because I do not believe you will persuade the rest of the Circle that you need to do that, unless you precisely want to see if the arguments opposed change your point of view.

 

[Feantari]

Careful about that we you're throwing around there. Yowch, now I know how Cunning Fangs feels. ;-)

 

[Kacie]

Norts - there is one charm that would vastly improve your combat monster-ness; Infinite MA Mastery. Get that for 8xp, pull it up at the start of combat for 20m 1wp, and don't look back. (Mote cost pays for itself with 2 actions where you'd have spent 10m buying up dice.) This is why Mirror wants Ess 4 so badly - that's when the caps come off Inf. Mastery.

 

[Kacie]

The best way to have this out is probably IC. We're beating around the bush right now, and if we can't decide what to do OOC, maybe the characters will decide it for us? The IC conversation has been mostly quiet today, so I'll bring it up there.


In the spirit of openness, I'm going to hold off posting IC for a bit in case other things need to come up.


Also in the spirit of openness - the Dragon Kings are slavers. That will be part of Mirror's arguments; the PCs are the Lawgivers. What does it mean when the Lawgivers turn a blind eye to slavery, because it's inconvenient to stop it?

 

[CrazyIvan]

They may have killed Berek, but they were justified. The guy kinda stole their future.

I'm just going to go ahead and say this flat out, right now.


Cunning Fangs does not care one little bit about 'justified'. They killed her mate. They killed Berek, and in the process risked his soul being forever beyond her reach to free. Mirror being sane and reasonable is blind luck. Also: They Killed Her Mate.


Cunning Fangs is burning Ankss to the ground, or she is going to die trying. She is built for mass combat against lesser foes, and I was planning on this prior to Kacie expressing a desire to do so. The dark, scary witch lady isn't actually all that dark or all that scary, and I feel like stretching that particular muscle.


Malek can talk to her if he likes, but all he might convince her to do is destroy Ankss swiftly, rather than in a way that will be spoken of in dread whispers in the halls of Yu Shan.


Seriously, considering breaking out the zombie charms and Second Circle demons for this.

 

[cyl]

The best way to have this out is probably IC. We're beating around the bush right now, and if we can't decide what to do OOC, maybe the characters will decide it for us? The IC conversation has been mostly quiet today, so I'll bring it up there.

I do not think it is wise considering the way CI speaks about Fangs determination.


If burning Ankss to the ground will happen with or without the Circle's consent, and unless you give the rest of us a serious and fair shot at changing your minds IC (and CI just said it was not an option), at least try to spare us a truly pointless quarrel which will clearly divide the Circle and possibly lead to more extreme behaviors.


And I do not mean that as a threat at all.


I believe there is a serious chance of things escalating between characters if we want to stay true to them, and it could get really ugly.


I know what my character will think of this considering where he comes from and I also suspect what the others like Rhapsody & Flicker will say because of their ties to Dragon Kings and adorators of the US.


You are talking about slaying people who have done nothing but defend themselves and their future, slaying the foe who was stealing their babies from them...


What kind of heroes would the rest of us be if we just went "Okay, sounds like fun, want some help ?


EDIT: to be clear again, as a Player I will not stop you or say you can't do it.


But if my character and possibly others become involved, there is a chance that they will.


My advice: lie through your teeth, hide your plan from the rest of the Circle and hope that once it's done it stays buried. (knowing the ST, I doubt it will )

 

[Kacie]

I'd have a humble proposal.


You kind of keep everybody updated OOC on what your chars will do.


If someone of the players thinks her PC would object, you move the idea to an IC vote.

From my favorite game' date=' [i']Apocalypse World[/i]: Tell them the possible consequences and ask.
Example:


OOC, Kacie points out that Mirror is going to wipe out the DKs as her next "diplomatic" act and asks if that's cool. Normally on these tasks, we'd agree and say that works or "I like it, but tweak this one bit". In this case, however, I point out that Rhapsody would take issue with that. This, then, sets the framework for a scene to hash that out IC. Perhaps Rhapsody and Mirror meet inside a temple after dark and have a heated discussion. Or we just create a new scene where the entire group is already well into proceedings and this comes up.


This way, you get the best of both OOC quickness and IC drama. I'm with Kacie for not passing up good RP opportunities but I also agree we can speed up the stuff that we agree on in OOC.

We just agreed to try out Xarvh & WlfSamurai's way of handling conflict, which is to bring things up IC, and find a compromise.


I don't want to have Mirror go off and just kill everything in her way. I think it would be really neat to do something like:


1) Mirror makes her declaration


2) Flicker et all object


3) Flicker bargains down Mirror from "kill them all" to something like "no killing the DKs once they surrender, try not to kill them when fighting, when they surrender Flicker offers them amnesty in the home of her DK mentor/people."


That way everyone gets something, everyone gives up something. Mirror gets the manse and Berek is avenged, she gives up getting to kill Berek's killers. Flicker makes sure the DKs aren't killed, and she also gets to move the DKs and their knowledge back to her mentor.


Why don't we give this a try IC, as a test of how this works?

 

[CrazyIvan]

If burning Ankss to the ground will happen with or without the Circle's consent, and unless you give the rest of us a serious and fair shot at changing your minds IC (and CI just said it was not an option), at least try to spare us a truly pointless quarrel which will clearly divide the Circle and possibly lead to more extreme behaviors.

You're not going to talk her out of not attacking Ankss - hell, you're not going to talk her out of not destroying Ankss. However, the manner in which that is done is something the Circle still has room to move on. There is, for example, a difference between "Burn Ankss to the Ground" and "Slaughter every last man, woman and child within". For example, I've already asked Arynne if Flicker might want to try to get Fangs to spare the young and unhatched.


The bigger question, in my mind, is whether Malek and some of the other members of the Circle can live with 'Politics is the art of the possible' and settle for mitigating, rather than preventing, the attack.

 

[WlfSamurai]

Personally, I disagree with ANY concrete OOC statement. I've always felt that nothing is fact or true until it's played out in IC. There's just no way to know what will or will not happen or how the other PC/NPCs react. That is, unless it's agreed that no IC discussion will take place on the subject. Then OOC becomes writ word in my mind.


Perhaps that is not true here.


But, to say that something isn't possible OOC is foreign to me... It would seem to me that we would have LITTLE chance to convince Fangs not to pursue her course of action, but, like you mentioned, CI, there will be points of contention built right into that.


This is a world of "fantasy" where we have magic powers to effect the minds of others. Or, even negotiation alone has potential...


/end_2_cents

 

[Arynne]

The problem of course, from Flicker's point of view, is that one should not have to be persuaded not to kill younglings for their elders' misdeeds in the first place. Anyone who requires persuasion to accept that is, well, Darth Vader.

 

[CrazyIvan]

The problem of course, from Flicker's point of view, is that one should not have to be persuaded not to kill younglings for their elders' misdeeds in the first place. Anyone who requires persuasion to accept that is, well, Darth Vader.

In this particular example, I'm...alright with that comparison.

 

[Arynne]

The second, of course, is that, "I'll let you kill all the adults so long as you agree not to kill any children" is not a proposition I could ever see Flicker advancing.

 

[CrazyIvan]

The second, of course, is that, "I'll let you kill all the adults so long as you agree not to kill any children" is not a proposition I could ever see Flicker advancing.

No, but she could bring up that there are innocents in Ankss. Keep in mind Fangs was never there - as far as she is concerned this is a dot on the map where her mate died.

 

[Arynne]

So, possible conversation:


Fangs: "Now, about those Exalt-murdering villains in Ankss...when are we going to wipe them off the map?"


Flicker: "No! They were provoked! Besides, there are innocent people there!"


Fangs: (smiling sweetly) "Oh, yes. I see." (makes mental resolution not to bother telling Flicker any more about her roaring rampage of revenge plans...but remembers that fact when she comes to Ankss dressed like the Punisher)

 

[CrazyIvan]

Because Cunning Fangs is sometimes a jerk: "What, exactly, is it you all think the Bloom will do when it reaches the Underworld?"

 

[CrazyIvan]

So, possible conversation:
Fangs: "Now, about those Exalt-murdering villains in Ankss...when are we going to wipe them off the map?"


Flicker: "No! They were provoked! Besides, there are innocent people there!"


Fangs: (smiling sweetly) "Oh, yes. I see." (makes mental resolution not to bother telling Flicker any more about her roaring rampage of revenge plans...but remembers that fact when she comes to Ankss dressed like the Punisher)

Something like that.

 

[Arynne]

Because Cunning Fangs is sometimes a jerk: "What, exactly, is it you all think the Bloom will do when it reaches the Underworld?"

"Umm...isn't everything dead there already?"

 

[CrazyIvan]

"Umm...isn't everything dead there already?"

"So if they are dead it's acceptable to obliterate a culture? Interesting..."

 

[Kacie]

I'm super curious what Flicker's view on slavery is. And everyone else's, too.


Mirror is solidly against it.


With the except of Demons, because Demons, binding oaths made by the victor, yadda yadda.

 

[CrazyIvan]

I'm super curious what Flicker's view on slavery is. And everyone else's, too.
Mirror is solidly against it.


With the except of Demons, because Demons, binding oaths made by the victor, yadda yadda.

If Fangs knew about it, it would be reason enough to do some serious damage.


She has, for example, always phrased the binding of Elementals as an unacceptable risk, but in truth she finds it more than a little distasteful.

 

[WlfSamurai]

I'm super curious what Flicker's view on slavery is. And everyone else's, too.
Mirror is solidly against it.


With the except of Demons, because Demons, binding oaths made by the victor, yadda yadda.

No go for Rhapsody too. Unacceptable.

 

[Feantari]

I'm super curious what Flicker's view on slavery is. And everyone else's, too.
Mirror is solidly against it.


With the except of Demons, because Demons, binding oaths made by the victor, yadda yadda.

Argis owns a slave.

 

[WlfSamurai]

Argis owns a slave.

:eek:


Rhapsody and Argis just weren't meant to be together...

 

[cyl]

The problem is some characters (including mine) may find the concept of the attack unacceptable on principle.


Fangs may demand for reparation, but attacking a settlement who's done nothing to us and only acted in self defense... that's not just crazy anymore, that's borderline bad guyish psycho crazy.

You're not going to talk her out of not attacking Ankss - hell, you're not going to talk her out of not destroying Ankss.