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Fantasy Banners & Blood - OOC

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I’m not sure why there is conflict or even debate. I think both could work fine. It seems like you, Grammatic Grammatic , have a very specific definition of what gothic means. Is there a story that relates to those concepts you’re planning for your Tanner down the line? I want to make sure there isn’t something the lore discussion is stamping on that you already had in mind.

The point of the lore is to be collaborative and interesting. I’m not sure why it’s becoming an issue. And I certainly don’t want to lose players over it. That would be silly. We have something really cool going. For now, let’s stick to posting about the situation at hand.
 
Hear hear, I say we implement both and stay away from the detail. I’m going to IC post with this in mind

“If you’re wondering how they eat and breathe and other science facts, just repeat to yourself it’s just a show, I should really just relax!”
 
I think the problem stems from this idea that there remains only one significant 'society' regarding the humans (and other civilised Lesser Races) that seems to take centre stage. When one considers many of the more successful fantasy settings, that being Lord of the Rings, Elder Scrolls, the Witcher, etc. - civilisations are split and divided into countries, provinces, regions and sub-continents much as they are in the real world.

Why one Empire? Why a governing body comprised of the houses to share domain over essentially 'all' humans and the other Lesser Races that remain within what may be considered human territory? BEFORE trying to craft a massive political and societal structure, it would be far simpler to start with basic geographic locations.

How large is (let's assume) the continent? - i.e. the main body of land which the Elders originally split from. How many countries are there? How many sub-regions and provinces within said countries? Are there several governed primarily by a single leader? There could be several political make-ups throughout the space in which our story is set, each with their own agenda (assuming they have any at all beyond what lies within their own borders), each with their own leader/s etc. etc.

We've established that a society of Elves and Orcs exist (separately) - but where? What are their relations with human civilisation - or at least certain parts of it? etc. etc. - If we're going to establish politics before much else, we have a MASSIVE task ahead of us, because creating a living and breathing world can be an exceptionally arduous task. One that should not be approached by only one person (or two people on opposing sides) but rather a large discussion that involves the entire group. Some ideas will be better than others, but a culmination of suggestions (after first crafting the space in which the political groups can exist) would be the best path to success.

--- On that note, I'm going to join the Discord. I'm cooking dinner right now though, so don't expect anything from me yet.
 
A lot of that is why I like to establish as we play, so that those details are made to serve our uses in-game.
 
I bet having a discord conversation and the disconnect between that and the game might be the root of the issue. Sure it’s convenient and prolific but the transfer into the actual gameplay seems to be causing friction
 
Like this game is a pseudo-Dungeon world format and that relies on gameplay to tell the story through emergence, all Lore is made specifically IC with there being no OOC effectively. Does that make sense?

Lore creating story vs story creating lore
 
Putting my cards on the table, I'm interested in long walks along abandoned battlefields, desperate chases through shadowy forests and searching among closed-windowed village homes for something that's searching for me. I'm playing a rural wizard who's never been anywhere further away than the city that's presently on fire. I am not impacted by any prior relationship with whatever the local or regional government is, whether it's monolithic or split among twenty houses or whatever. Nor are those larger social institutions likely to have much interest in a single young elven wizard randomly passing their lands.

I'm up for whatever the group is up for, especially if there are details that are important to one or more PCs either due to their backstories or due to where they hope their character arcs go.

Wackadoodle0987 Wackadoodle0987 makes a good point about establishing geography before government (in part because the latter tends to be influenced by the former). I'd deconstruct a step further and get everyone to agree on what kind of a scope for a story are we looking for. Lord of the Rings needed to know about large nation-states because the Quest for the One Ring took the cast across those nation-states, and the protagonists dealt with Kings and Stewards as well as ordinary warriors and people.

Put another way, the Marvel Avengers movies also care about nation-states because they're trying to save the world and dealing with world-spanning threats. The Defenders, by contrast, are concerned with New York City and what's going on outside of New York only matters when those outside elements come in to their territory.

The pitch for this game was some local heroes with a tie to a village trying to find out what happened to a merchant caravan. This could become Game of Thrones I suppose (which I haven't seen) but I'd rather see the group say "Yes, that's the scope we want for the game" before we figure out just how much worldbuilding we need to do.

If we find enough to do within a hundred mile radius of where we are, we could all do an amazing amount of world building that will never see the light of day.
 
Epiphany said:
Putting my cards on the table, I'm interested in long walks along abandoned battlefields, desperate chases through shadowy forests and searching among closed-windowed village homes for something that's searching for me. I'm playing a rural wizard who's never been anywhere further away than the city that's presently on fire. I am not impacted by any prior relationship with whatever the local or regional government is, whether it's monolithic or split among twenty houses or whatever. Nor are those larger social institutions likely to have much interest in a single young elven wizard randomly passing their lands.

I'm up for whatever the group is up for, especially if there are details that are important to one or more PCs either due to their backstories or due to where they hope their character arcs go.

Wackadoodle0987 Wackadoodle0987 makes a good point about establishing geography before government (in part because the latter tends to be influenced by the former). I'd deconstruct a step further and get everyone to agree on what kind of a scope for a story are we looking for. Lord of the Rings needed to know about large nation-states because the Quest for the One Ring took the cast across those nation-states, and the protagonists dealt with Kings and Stewards as well as ordinary warriors and people.

Put another way, the Marvel Avengers movies also care about nation-states because they're trying to save the world and dealing with world-spanning threats. The Defenders, by contrast, are concerned with New York City and what's going on outside of New York only matters when those outside elements come in to their territory.

The pitch for this game was some local heroes with a tie to a village trying to find out what happened to a merchant caravan. This could become Game of Thrones I suppose (which I haven't seen) but I'd rather see the group say "Yes, that's the scope we want for the game" before we figure out just how much worldbuilding we need to do.

If we find enough to do within a hundred mile radius of where we are, we could all do an amazing amount of world building that will never see the light of day.
Click to expand...
Quite right. I mean, I've been involved in a 6 month RP that was posted on consistently at least once a day per roleplayer, and the RP itself was entirely contained within one small city and spanned three days... over 6 months. Our game-world might never even be involved in the story beyond our own backstories and dialogue... that being said however, the LORE (sorry WlfSamurai WlfSamurai :coolshades:) regarding the Elders separating from the continent, and Human civilisation battling against the vampires / becoming the prominent 'power' is an influencing factor on my plans for Amelie (and consequently Anna).

The origins of the current world state (be what they may) are at least set in stone. Vrelan (I'm going to say is a region or province within the 'Known World' - the name of the primary continent, much like Tolkien's "Middle Earth" or ESs "Tamriel" etc. etc.) is 'humie' land, and there are various parts of the Known World that are primarily controlled by other races etc.

The Elders, in their grand isle of Valinor *cough* *cough*, I mean, unnamed land are sipping mamosas while listening to indie rock and folk music with their legs up relaxing in the sun on sandy beaches etc. and are all but out of reach of those on the mainland (at least for now). Potentially guarded from outsiders by magics, such as that of the Doom of Mandos as an example (though let's have some originality and not take everything from LotR [though as a major fan... I may struggle with coming to terms with that]).

My idea... for the sake of abating the tame, but present, hostilities is to incorporate both ideas. Bear with me on this, because I am busy and so this will be a rushed draft.

- Vrelan (or Vrenal... it's been referred to as both, but in the original mention it's Vrelan so I'll stick with that, correct me if necessary), a province bordering the Deadlands (the plains which continue to marr the 'coast' of the Known World), is governed by what is only referred to as the Empire. The, somewhat dusty, remains of the 'Old Empire' that existed during the age in which Vampires and Humans coincided. Weakened during the Civil War, the Empire's influence has receded, limited primarily to Vrelan itself, and while it's economic reach spans much of the Known World, it's politics and government remain contained with the province of Vrelan alone.

Vrelan I imagine to be the largest region.

- Orcs + Elves (I can't for the life of me find the post that mentioned these, but I'm in a rush) - But there are civilisations involving other Lesser Races that are secluded from the main bulk.

- Noble houses, or the Houses of Arcana, are among the most prevalent and influential nobility to exist OUTSIDE of Vrelan, the most powerful of which going so far as to reign over their own Kingdom/Province (such as House of Sun). Though others are far less prominent. For example, Hanged Men whom reside in the deathly regions bordering the Deadlands just beyond the borders of Vrelan (a buffer essentially).

Their political relations may depend on geography, history and ideals - and may be allied with others, or hostile towards them - be they other Houses, the Empire, or other civilisations.

Likely many of the houses govern their own city-states, or remain simple nobility potentially ruled by the Empire or another, more powerful house. I would imagine there's some strain between the Empire of Vrelan and the seemingly growing influence of the House of the Sun. Tensions under the regard that should say... the House of the Sun ally with, or declare war upon and attempt to subsume another of the more prominent houses (such as the Empress, or World) ten they would prove a very significant threat.

No outright war as of yet, but bristling tension is always a good background setting.

------

The Known World consists of:

- Vrelan.
- Elder Land (let's all come up with suggestions... mine's the Isles of Celebrant)
- Beren (a made up name included in my first post - a mostly human populated region closely bordering Vrelan)
- Orcs
- Elves (I really need to find that post)
- .... suggestions.

So, everyone's input now. Geography?

Deadlands is on what coast? East, North, South or West? What borders Vrelan? Which houses are prominent and powerful? Which are simply part of another rulership? What other regions are there? Who or what lives in these regions? What are their climates? Etc, etc.
 
Last edited:
Taure Tavari said:
Quite right. I mean, I've been involved in a 6 month RP that was posted on consistently at least once a day per roleplayer, and the RP itself was entirely contained within one small city and spanned three days... over 6 months. Our game-world might never even be involved in the story beyond our own backstories and dialogue... that being said however, the LORE (sorry WlfSamurai WlfSamurai :coolshades:) regarding the Elders separating from the continent, and Human civilisation battling against the vampires / becoming the prominent 'power' is an influencing factor on my plans for Amelie (and consequently Anna).

The origins of the current world state (be what they may) are at least set in stone. Vrelan (I'm going to say is a region or province within the 'Known World' - the name of the primary continent, much like Tolkien's "Middle Earth" or ESs "Tamriel" etc. etc.) is 'humie' land, and there are various parts of the Known World that are primarily controlled by other races etc.

The Elders, in their grand isle of Valinor *cough* *cough*, I mean, unnamed land are sipping mamosas while listening to indie rock and folk music with their legs up relaxing in the sun on sandy beaches etc. and are all but out of reach of those on the mainland (at least for now). Potentially guarded from outsiders by magics, such as that of the Doom of Mandos as an example (though let's have some originality and not take everything from LotR [though as a major fan... I may struggle with coming to terms with that]).

My idea... for the sake of abating the tame, but present, hostilities is to incorporate both ideas. Bear with me on this, because I am busy and so this will be a rushed draft.

- Vrelan (or Vrenal... it's been referred to as both, but in the original mention it's Vrelan so I'll stick with that, correct me if necessary), a province bordering the Deadlands (the plains which continue to marr the 'coast' of the Known World), is governed by what is only referred to as the Empire. The, somewhat dusty, remains of the 'Old Empire' that existed during the age in which Vampires and Humans coincided. Weakened during the Civil War, the Empire's influence has receded, limited primarily to Vrelan itself, and while it's economic reach spans much of the Known World, it's politics and government remain contained with the province of Vrelan alone.

Vrelan I imagine to be the largest region.

- Orcs + Elves (I can't for the life of me find the post that mentioned these, but I'm in a rush) - But there are civilisations involving other Lesser Races that are secluded from the main bulk.

- Noble houses, or the Houses of Arcana, are among the most prevalent and influential nobility to exist OUTSIDE of Vrelan, the most powerful of which going so far as to reign over their own Kingdom/Province (such as House of Sun). Though others are far less prominent. For example, Hanged Men whom reside in the deathly regions bordering the Deadlands just beyond the borders of Vrelan (a buffer essentially).

Their political relations may depend on geography, history and ideals - and may be allied with others, or hostile towards them - be they other Houses, the Empire, or other civilisations.

Likely many of the houses govern their own city-states, or remain simple nobility potentially ruled by the Empire or another, more powerful house. I would imagine there's some strain between the Empire of Vrelan and the seemingly growing influence of the House of the Sun. Tensions under the regard that should say... the House of the Sun ally with, or declare war upon and attempt to subsume another of the more prominent houses (such as the Empress, or World) ten they would prove a very significant threat.

No outright war as of yet, but bristling tension is always a good background setting.

------

The Known World consists of:

- Vrelan.
- Elder Land (let's all come up with suggestions... mine's the Isles of Celebrant)
- Beren (a made up name included in my first post - a mostly human populated region closely bordering Vrelan)
- Orcs
- Elves (I really need to find that post)
- .... suggestions.

So, everyone's input now. Geography?

Deadlands is on what coast? East, North, South or West? What borders Vrelan? Which houses are prominent and powerful? Which are simply part of another rulership? What other regions are there? Who or what lives in these regions? What are their climates? Etc, etc.
Click to expand...
I do like a lot of this, though. I think this works in many of the concepts that were already said. And kind of what Grammatic Grammatic said last.
 
my conception of the gothic genre is clearly wildly different from Moon's. i believe it is usually characterized by grimdark, yes, but also literary devices like defamiliarization. i don't think any one particular governmental structure is "gothic" in nature and i think this argument is 1) silly and 2) experimental and friendly on Frixz's part and 3) absolute and begrudging on Moon's part. besides i thought the compromise initially agreed upon works just fine. it's not like Frixz has completely upended everything.

the wheel of fortune being a noble signet, the empire of vrelan having Tanner's loyalty, the existence of eldritch monsters, and the persecution of vampires have all been mentioned IC (anyone feel free to add to this list if i missed anything), so they can't be changed or disputed. beyond that, this is all fluid and up for grabs. Wlf's right, we're getting carried away.

none of this is relevant to me anway, bc i designed my character knowing that the lay of the land would shift as we moved forward. i had some vague ideas about the elders, but that's so inessential.
i like what Epiphany said about it. we need to consider the scope, and while i would love to eventually end up in Ash's pirate crew or something, right now i'm more interested in a very small scope. if anyone wants to do worldbuilding, let's do it on glewick. let's do it on the woods we just came from. that kinda thing.
 
So guess what still doesn't work?

Here's a hint: It's the notification system. Apparently without actively checking each separate thread you no longer receive notifications for it, even if you have it set to "watch" the thread. Splendid.

Apologies once again for my absence. I'll jump right back in and take advantage of Ash's condition Ronan Ronan to try and shove the group towards Glewick, if that's alright with everybody.

Also, brief glance over the OOC shows me we're getting into the big picture world building. I like the descriptions for the Arcana that have been written up; anyone mind if I hijack Number 21? It fits too well with my ideas for The Workshop that Elias is employed by for me to let it pass.

EDIT: Nevermind, it seems there's a great deal I need to catch up on in terms of lore. Still planning on that post, though.
 
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No worries. Take your time. Your spot, like everyone else’s, will be held for you until you tell me otherwise.
 
ShadTheWerepire ShadTheWerepire , so, I’m asking again and I’m sorry. I just want to make sure I have it right before I post for you. You’re skirting the perimeter of Glewick before heading south on the main road? That way you run into the group heading north’s? Is that right?
 
WlfSamurai said:
ShadTheWerepire ShadTheWerepire , so, I’m asking again and I’m sorry. I just want to make sure I have it right before I post for you. You’re skirting the perimeter of Glewick before heading south on the main road? That way you run into the group heading north’s? Is that right?
Click to expand...
i'm not shad but my understanding is that you're right, but shae is going to interact with callie first/along the way
 
I should probably put up some post about Cassie approaching the camp, explaining why she's there, etc. I'm just too tired (and candidly too tipsy) to do it tonight. Will try to do it in 8 hours if that's convenient. Otherwise, by all means, feel free to move things along and I'll figure it out. :)
 
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