At the Adventurers' Table

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Would anyone mind if I wanted to - for a while - explore another character/class? Probably not, right? Yeah... And if I said that character would be of Chaotic Neutral alignment? What about now?*


I was advised to ask beforehand because some of you may have negative experience dealing with Neutral characters in an otherwise fully Good party. I haven't really played much Pathfinder/D&D so I can only imagine the implications, but I was hoping that everyone got to know me well enough by now that you'd trust me not to be one of those players *woof*


*Come on, it's not like I said Chaotic Evil

 

[Kaerri]

I have no problems at all with you exploring a new character


I do have some reservations with Chaotic Neutral characters specifically. It can be hard enough to keep everyone moving in the same general direction, but with good and/or lawful types you can appeal to their better (or at least more orderly) natures. Generally speaking, my experience is that CN characters just don't care about who they're with or what's going on unless it's going to benefit them personally, and it can get tiresome having to talk them into going along with the party every session. Sometimes it reaches a point of "Why do we even bring this guy/gal along?" which is not something anyone wants to say about a player character.


I'm not saying it won't work, particularly with a good player like you, Wolf. I've just seen it cause problems in the past.


It may also be worth mentioning that Bren and Bria are Lawful Good, and CN is about as far from that as you can get without going evil, which means there are extremely good odds of personality conflicts.


There's some pretty good descriptions of all the alignments here. Clicking on the name of each alignment type takes you into a more in-depth view of each, with examples from all kinds of fiction (and I do mean all kinds, from TV to video games to theatre and anything else they could think of). I got sidetracked reading it all and wanted to share.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

I've already reviewed all alignments in detail on two sites (and now on this one, which was definitely worth it because it's so well-written lol). Thanks.

It can be hard enough to keep everyone moving in the same general direction, but with good and/or lawful types you can appeal to their better (or at least more orderly) natures. Generally speaking, my experience is that CN characters just don't care about who they're with or what's going on unless it's going to benefit them personally, and it can get tiresome having to talk them into going along with the party every session. Sometimes it reaches a point of "Why do we even bring this guy/gal along?" which is not something anyone wants to say about a player character.

Yes! Totally.


But what if you still had something to appeal to, even without the better nature card? The character I envisioned - while honestly being Chaotic Neutral for a reason - isn't completely selfish. What if the things that drove them, their personal goals they'd seek in whatever they were doing, weren't too hard to promise? What if it wasn't too hard to persuade them to swing the way the others do? I don't think we'd face the problem of having to talk them into every single thing that needed doing.


And about reaching the point of "why bother", what if part of this character's key motivations was to remain a member of the party? That way, if their behavior made them approach the boiling point there would be a strong argument for them to relent - since they would prefer it to being kicked out. Chaotic Neutral swings both ways fairly easily, yes - but this can be just as good as it can be bad.


In order words, if I could further take apart the alignment system I'd say that on a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is borderline with Chaotic Good and 10 borderline with Chaotic Evil, this character would be a 3 and not a 7. Ach, am I making it too complicated? What I mean is that they have more potential to go good than bad. This could even manifest itself with an alignment switch over a long period of time, depending on circumstances and interaction.


All in all, thank you for being willing to talk about it and not just shoot me down on account of your previous experience. Dann said he's fine with this provided that everyone else is fine with it as well (which makes perfect sense). So I need clear approval from everyone. Do I have yours, Kaerri? I understand the implications, risks, concerns, and I value your trust (as well as Sherwood's and Captain's) way too much to go and break it by making the game less fun for you as the players with what my character did to yours in game *woof*

 

[Kaerri]

[QUOTE="Wolf Rawrrr]But what if you still had something to appeal to, even without the better nature card? The character I envisioned - while honestly being Chaotic Neutral for a reason - isn't completely selfish. What if the things that drove them, their personal goals they'd seek in whatever they were doing, weren't too hard to promise? What if it wasn't too hard to persuade them to swing the way the others do? I don't think we'd face the problem of having to talk them into every single thing that needed doing.

[/QUOTE]I'm in a "tabletop" (actually Roll20) game right now where we're sort of faced with that. (The system we're using didn't bother with alignments, so I'm just estimating based on personalities.) The majority of the party seem to be Chaotic or Neutral Good (with naive tendencies, I'm afraid) but one of the PCs is more Chaotic Neutral, and we've had to push him into - not joining, but just going along with morally right decisions. Sometimes it doesn't take more than us telling him he needs to go because we're going, sometimes it turns into a full argument, but our characters always need to say something, every time the choice between what's right and what's expedient (or good for the party) comes up. It works there because none of us are really taking it seriously, but I feel more attached to Sharseya and I'm a lot more emotionally invested in it.
In some ways it's actually easier with an evil character because the good people would just kill them or kick them out and move on. (Though, again, not something you want to do with a PC, which makes it difficult on the OOC side.) Neutral characters are more ambiguous.

[QUOTE="Wolf Rawrrr]In order words, if I could further take apart the alignment system I'd say that on a scale from 1 to 10 where 1 is borderline with Chaotic Good and 10 borderline with Chaotic Evil, this character would be a 3 and not a 7. Ach, am I making it too complicated? What I mean is that they have more potential to go good than bad. This could even manifest itself with an alignment switch over a long period of time, depending on circumstances and interaction.

[/QUOTE]Dann and I talk about "neutral with [insert extreme here] leanings" sometimes when discussing alignments, so it's not implausible to describe it as a continuum, with good > neutral > evil being the labels we put on defined segments of that continuum. And alignment changes are certainly possible! Bren himself started as Neutral Good, but ran afoul of a magic item that forced him to change to a new alignment of his choice, so he picked Lawful Good because he'd been leaning lawful-wards anyway. So perhaps your character is Chaotic Neutral with good leanings, or even Chaotic Good with neutral leanings? It's all in how it's played, anyway, and not what's written on the character sheet.
Ultimately what matters is that we're all having fun.


From a personal standpoint, my main concern is that Bren as party leader would go from herding cats to herding ADHD kittens, and constantly feeling like I have to rein in other characters isn't my idea of fun. Some of that is because of Bren's alignment, of course, but some of it is also my own (I'd describe me as NG with lawful leanings, or possibly the other way around, and constant chaos isn't all that fun for me). I've had some moments already where I had to get over annoyance (sometimes irrational, I admit) at something the more chaotic types were doing (or not doing, as the case may be) and I guess I'm just leery of it getting worse.

[QUOTE="Wolf Rawrrr]All in all, thank you for being willing to talk about it and not just shoot me down on account of your previous experience.

[/QUOTE]Well, of course! It's you. You weren't the problem people in my previous games. You're a lot nicer than they were. (^U^) And really, a better roleplayer, given that I suspect many of them were playing Chaotic Neutrals because they were Chaotic Neutral.
I've got reservations, but I do trust you. And too, I don't suppose it would be fair to say "no" without knowing anything else about the character's personality or giving you the chance to explore it for yourself, and I don't want to be unfair. (Did I mention my lawful side? ( )) So... yes. Clear approval, but not unqualified, if you don't mind? I might still have issues but I'll send you a PM if something becomes an actual player-side problem (meaning someone's fun is impacted), and we can look for a way to sort it out without sacrificing part of our characters' personalities. I expect there will be some conflict between the characters, but there's no reason to have it between players as well.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

It's all in how it's played, anyway, and not what's written on the character sheet.

Ultimately what matters is that we're all having fun.

...but I'll send you a PM if something becomes an actual player-side problem (meaning someone's fun is impacted)...

Yes, yes, and yes. Now there's a summary that I can wholeheartedly agree with *woof*


I wish I could share more about the character already, but half of my idea of fun is doing such things IC... ( )

 

[Purr]

@Captain Hesperus[/URL] @Sherwood What say you? Like he said, it's not like he said Chaotic Evil! Hee hee... =)

 

[Sherwood]

If you switch out Wolf, Luna will miss him a lot. But it is also important to enjoy your character. I will support any choice you make.

 

[Purr]

I'm glad to see that, but the big question here, Sherwood, is - Do you mind a Chaotic Neutral in the Wanderers?

 

[Purr]

I have to ask it that way because once the decision is made, it's done. =)

 

[Sherwood]

I have no objections, so long as the assignment didn't slide into evil.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

I don't have a problem with a CN character.


Captain Hesperus

 

[Sherwood]

A quick question for those more knowledgeable in Pathfinder than I: Can a wand be recharged? I know that staves can, but what about a wand?

 

[Purr]

Thanks, Cap'n!


Sherwood. In Sharseya (which takes from 1st Edition in some places including here), some wands can be recharged, others cannot. It all depends on the wand in question. This is different than Pathfinder where wands cannot be recharged at all.


So, which wands can be recharged? I use Dungeon Masters Guide 1st Edition to help with that. Typically speaking, wands with common spells (like the Wand of Magic Missiles you're looking forward to making for Luna) can be recharged while wands with very special powers (like the feared Wand of Negation or the outrageous Wand of Wonder) cannot be recharged. =)

 

[Purr]

@Wolf Rawrrr So, there we have it! Wolf, you've got the green light to create your new character with the alignment you asked for. Thanks folks, for giving your opinions. I really wanted to know how you felt. =)

 

[Sherwood]

Thanks, Cap'n!
Sherwood. In Sharseya (which takes from 1st Edition in some places including here), some wands can be recharged, others cannot. It all depends on the wand in question. This is different than Pathfinder where wands cannot be recharged at all.


So, which wands can be recharged? I use Dungeon Masters Guide 1st Edition to help with that. Typically speaking, wands with common spells (like the Wand of Magic Missiles you're looking forward to making for Luna) can be recharged while wands with very special powers (like the feared Wand of Negation or the outrageous Wand of Wonder) cannot be recharged. =)

Thank you.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Thanks, all *woof*


And Luna needn't worry. I'm not scrapping Wolf, just looking to have something interesting to do while he's temporarily away. He'll



. Eventually.

 

[Sherwood]

What kind of character were you thinking of introducing? Warrior? Mage? Cleric? Something completely different?

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Something completely different compared to my first character *rawr*

 

[Sherwood]

Cool. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. You could play another wizard and we could share spells back and forth (^U^)

 

[Purr]

Yeah... And on that subject... I had another important question I needed everyone's O.K. on.


Does anyone really mind if Wolf plays something completely different?

Spoiler

It's fine, right? =)

(Image credit: www.wallpaperup.com)


It's a prestige class.


Ha ha ha!

 

[Sherwood]

Hmm, where can I get one of those?

 

[Purr]

You cannot haz. You haz pseudo-dragon.


=)

 

[Sherwood]

But....But....sparkle would be so cute trying to act all fierce in that getup!

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

One of those? Not that I bothered to inspect in any detail, but shouldn't you already have plenty of those in your Robotech game? *woof*

 

[Sherwood]

But I'm running that game, not playing in it!