Other Unpopular Opinions

[The Witch Son]

Another thing about religion that bothers me is the talk about God's "unconditional" love. It's not unconditional, it's not. You have to follow the Bible and you shall not break any of commandments. So it's a conditional love, not unconditional. If God gets it his way, I'm going straight to hell.

unless you ask for forgiveness right? like that's the "thing" about christianity they're big on the jesus dying for your sins so you can be forgiven thing

not that i'm into abrahamic religions or anything but last I looked their commandments weren't all that bad - so tf did you do to deserve going to hell???

 

[Bone2pick]

And also that statement wasn't a matter of belief either I mean for instance you can try to claim climate change isn't real but like the numbers say differently that's the thing about numbers - they don't lie and they aren't up for debate

Your claim that hurting people isn't often required in personal or family protection isn't up for debate? Interesting defense.

 

[The Witch Son]

Your claim that hurting people isn't often required in personal or family protection isn't up for debate? Interesting defense.

that's not what I claimed no

but i do claim that owning a gun is more of a danger to your family than not - it's more likely to invite/incite that violence than protect your family from it, and that's the numbers talking

 

[Daisie]

Another thing about religion that bothers me is the talk about God's "unconditional" love. It's not unconditional, it's not. You have to follow the Bible and you shall not break any of commandments. So it's a conditional love, not unconditional. If God gets it his way, I'm going straight to hell.

God DOES love you unconditionally, though. Like a perfect parent would. That's why he allows us to make mistakes. Though I don't believe in heaven and Hell in the traditional sense.

I don't believe that following the Bible is required for you to make it into "Heaven", I believe that it's based on behaviour. If you're a good person and keep an open mind, you should be golden in the end. But God allows us to make choices... Some of which aren't good. He allows us to face the consequences of our actions unless we repent. Truly repent, and feel the fullness of our guilt.

 

[Daisie]

wasn't replying to you?

Frick. I'm really exhausted, I'm sorry.

 

[Bone2pick]

Gun's don't make you safe they just make it easier to hurt someone...

Yet right here your reasoning is "hurting someone" isn't part of personal protection. But it often is.

 

[SandraDeelightful]

I am a firm believer in the second amendment. I'm 5'4 and I have no muscle. I intend to be moving out on my own soon. I would like to know that I can defend myself.

 

[M O N K E Y]

I just wanted to quote this because the above is something atheists totally miss when they try to understand why people are into religion and what it does for them. Like, it's a source of strength for a lot of people and I don't think a lot of atheists really understand how deep that runs or what that all entails. It's why these anti-religion arguments tend to fall flat or fall on deaf ears. You're asking people to abandon the source of their strength and that's never going to go over very well so like... *shrug* probably not gonna happen boo.

Really good reply though.

Here's the thing for me though. I cannot understand why people believe in it? (It's beautiful a idea.) You say anti-religion arguments tend to fall flat. Let's put it this way. You can say I'm an agnostic-atheist. Agnostic basically means that you don't know if there's a God, so everyone's an agnostic technically. We don't know. An agnostic-atheist is someone who doesn't know if there's a God or not, (as no one does), atheism is only rejecting the claim that there's a God. It's not a belief system. This is atheism in a nut-shell; You say, "There's a God." I say, "Can you prove that?" You say, "No, I can not". I say, "Then I don't believe you".
You believe in one God I presume? As I said earlier, there's 3000 to choose from, you deny one less God than I do. You don't believe in 2999 other Gods. I don't believe in just one more.

Science is constantly proved all the time. If we took any holy book or any other what I call fiction and destroyed it. In a thousand years time, that wouldn't come back just like it was. Where as if we took every science book and fact and destroyed it, in a thousand years, they'd all be back. All the same tests would show the same result. I can not dedicate my life to something that I have sooo many question marks about. I mean, there's more proof that aliens exist than God's existence. Once again, I do not deny anyone's rights to this belief. I think it's beautiful that you've found something that to you is so strong.
It's just that, to me it makes no sense. If I came to you one day, no one had ever heard of this thing called God, and I said, "Hey, there's a God who created our planet and he's our lord and savior." You wouldn't believe me, not one day. I'd probably be put in to a mental hospital.
I don't know, I might be spending an eternity with Satan.

 

[The Witch Son]

Yet right here your reasoning is "hurting someone" isn't part of personal protection. But it often is.

I already told you no, but we can do this circular dance all day if you like

Here's the thing for me though. I cannot understand why people believe in it? (It's beautiful a idea.) You say anti-religion arguments tend to fall flat. Let's put it this way. You can say I'm an agnostic-atheist. Agnostic basically means that you don't know if there's a God, so everyone's an agnostic technically. We don't know. An agnostic-atheist is someone who doesn't know if there's a God or not, (as no one does), atheism is only rejecting the claim that there's a God. It's not a belief system. This is atheism in a nut-shell; You say, "There's a God." I say, "Can you prove that?" You say, "No, I can not". I say, "Then I don't believe you".
You believe in one God I presume? As I said earlier, there's 3000 to choose from, you deny one less God than I do. You don't believe in 2999 other Gods. I don't believe in just one more.

Science is constantly proved all the time. If we took any holy book or any other what I call fiction and destroyed it. In a thousand years time, that wouldn't come back just like it was. Where as if we took every science book and fact and destroyed it, in a thousand years, they'd all be back. All the same tests would show the same result. I can not dedicate my life to something that I have sooo many question marks about. I mean, there's more proof that aliens exist than God's existence. Once again, I do not deny anyone's rights to this belief. I think it's beautiful that you've found something that to you is so strong.
It's just that, to me it makes no sense. If I came to you one day, no one had ever heard of this thing called God, and I said, "Hey, there's a God who created our planet and he's our lord and savior." You wouldn't believe me, not one day. I'd probably be put in to a mental hospital.
I don't know, I might be spending an eternity with Satan.

Buddy if I know that the generalization of monotheistic "god" religions are called the "abrahamic" religions, and I also say that they aren't my thing - you can assume that I both probably know more about them than you do and do not in fact believe in a god. So you don't need to sit there and explain to me what atheism and agnosticism means. We can heavily infer this from what I've already stated.

So in case it's not clear, no I don't personally believe in a god (not that it's at all relevant to the discussion), and if any variations of him did exist It'd be at my disadvantage - considering I'm a woman. So I'm personally crossing my fingers for a hard no.

I just don't think atheists are very good at arguing either. Atheists keep going around in these circles with christians and missing one big giant point - that asking people to abandon the source of their strength and comfort is not something that's going to be doable, you're asking for them to undo themselves and that's something they'll actually get violent over. Their sense of self is what they built upon you take away that foundation and the temple threatens to crumple. You keep spouting shit that doesn't matter to these people of course you're not getting through to them how could you? You don't even understand them and they know that - it's why they don't listen and just buckle down on their own point even harder.

 

[M O N K E Y]

I think there'd be more atheists and less faithful, if you weren't allowed to teach anything, not allowed to mention any Gods or any beliefs, or atheism until they were twenty. We'd definitely see a different pattern. The human brain when it's young is a sponge, it's supposed to be, it has to take in all the information and it has to trust it's parents, and it's elders in order to survive. Without question. Don't touch the fire. Don't go near the wolf. Don't touch that spider. Why not? Just don't! There is a God. What? There is a God. If you deny him you go to hell. Okay? If that's constantly confirmed, like all the other things, wolves eat you, some spiders kill you, fire burns you etc. If it's given that same level of credence and truth, you're never going to get over it. It's going to be a lot harder to undo that. We know it's fun to tell children there's a santa claus, a toothfairy and all of these cute things. It's cute until they're 7-8 years old. If they're 34 it's a bit embarrassing, socially. This is my son. What is he doing? He's looking for fairies. Is he? Okay, we believe you. See my point?
If you're born in India you're probably a Hindu, if you're born in America you're probably a Christian, if you're born in Pakistan you're probably a Muslim. Well that's a coincidence. Isn't it? You're always born into the right God. Isn't that lucky? I was born into the right God. All those others are going to hell, but I was born into the right religion, I'm going to heaven. It's to me so strange that we hold on to these ancient/medieval beliefs. Where did the universe come from? God made it. Which doesn't solve the problem for me. Who made God? We did.

 

[M O N K E Y]

I already told you no, but we can do this circular dance all day if you like



Buddy if I know that the generalization of monotheistic "god" religions are called the "abrahamic" religions, and I also say that they aren't my thing - you can assume that I both probably know more about them than you do and do not in fact believe in a god. So you don't need to sit there and explain to me what atheism and agnosticism means. We can heavily infer this from what I've already stated.

So in case it's not clear, no I don't personally believe in a god (not that it's at all relevant to the discussion), and if any variations of him did exist It'd be at my disadvantage - considering I'm a woman. So I'm personally crossing my fingers for a hard no.

I just don't think atheists are very good at arguing either. Atheists keep going around in these circles with christians and missing one big giant point - that asking people to abandon the source of their strength and comfort is not something that's going to be doable, you're asking for them to undo themselves and that's something they'll actually get violent over. Their sense of self is what they built upon you take away that foundation and the temple threatens to crumple. You keep spouting shit that doesn't matter to these people of course you're not getting through to them how could you? You don't even understand them and they know that - it's why they don't listen and just buckle down on their own point even harder.

I am in no way trying to make them ditch their beliefs to come and join me. I think it's absolutely fantastic that they have something that they hold on to so hard. Trust me, I'm actually a bit jealous. But I believe religion has created more problems than it has solving any.

 

[M O N K E Y]

unless you ask for forgiveness right? like that's the "thing" about christianity they're big on the jesus dying for your sins so you can be forgiven thing

not that i'm into abrahamic religions or anything but last I looked their commandments weren't all that bad - so tf did you do to deserve going to hell???

1st commandment is You shall have no other gods before Me.
Right off the bat I'm screwed.

 

[The Witch Son]

1st commandment is You shall have no other gods before Me.
Right off the bat I'm screwed.

But you can't have any gods before him if you have no gods period

I am in no way trying to make them ditch their beliefs to come and join me. I think it's absolutely fantastic that they have something that they hold on to so hard. Trust me, I'm actually a bit jealous. But I believe religion has created more problems than it has solving any.

I don't think it's beautiful, I think it's too much of an untrustworthy and weak foundation to build your sense of self on. But I digress, if you're going to argue against something you should at least know what the other perspective is - was my whole point. Not doing so makes for a weak argument.

 

[M O N K E Y]

But you can't have any gods before him if you have no gods period

I don't it's beautiful, I think it's too much of an untrustworthy and weak foundation to build your sense of self on. But I digress, if you're going to argue against something you should at least know what the other perspective is - was my whole point. Not doing so makes for a weak argument.

What do you mean? I totally understand their point of view. I'm just trying to make them understand mine. Which of my arguments are weak? Please let me know! I'm truly interested in this subject. I'm sure not all of my arguments are perfect, but please argue against them. Sorry if I've come off as rude. =)

 

[M O N K E Y]

Let's just agree on disagreeing, shall we? =)

 

[The Witch Son]

What do you mean? I totally understand their point of view. I'm just trying to make them understand mine. Which of my arguments are weak? Please let me know! I'm truly interested in this subject. I'm sure not all of my arguments are perfect, but please argue against them. Sorry if I've come off as rude. =)

UH no, you throw around the word "science" like it's a tool instead of citing anything properly or grasping what science itself entails and assume that the physical machinations of the world are what matter to a religious person. I'm not really interested in sitting here like a teacher and forming your observations better for yourself? That seems really tedious.

Plus I mean, you're just the person that responded not the representative for atheism and atheists that my original response applies to. Since you don't actually argue against religion I mean~

 

[Daisie]

Hey M O N K E Y can I PM you? I do love talking about religion, and you seem eager to listen. c:

 

[The Witch Son]

Let's just agree on disagreeing, shall we? =)

we don't disagree

 

[M O N K E Y]

Hey M O N K E Y can I PM you? I do love talking about religion, and you seem eager to listen. c:

Sure! =)

 

[Bone2pick]

I already told you no, but we can do this circular dance all day if you like

So you agree that personal & family protection often requires hurting the aggressors?

 

[The Witch Son]

So you agree that personal & family protection often requires hurting the aggressors?

You again?
Can you just skip to the "gotcha" line you have planned and I can link back to the families who own a gun are 22 times more likely to die by gun violence statistic and we can call it a day?

 

[Daisie]

You again?
Can you just skip to the "gotcha" line you have planned and I can link back to the families who own a gun are 22 times more likely to die by gun violence statistic and we can call it a day?

It was a yes or no question.. That's all they were asking.. You still haven't answered it.

 

[The Witch Son]

It was a yes or no question.. That's all they were asking.. You still haven't answered it.

I thought you were too tired to trade words Daisie ?

And I won't because I view it as a very dim kindergartener line that doesn't really deserve an answer and things are just done quicker if we skip it and get to whatever point they're trying to make so I can derail it with something I've already linked.

 

[Daisie]

I thought you were too tired to trade words @Daisie?

I'm too tired to write long detailed posts. That wasn't long and detailed.
I'm just confused as to why you refuse to say yes or no. You don't know for certain what point they're going to make. It's not that hard..
Assuming what point they are going to make before they make it is close minded.

 

[The Witch Son]

I'm too tired to write long detailed posts. That wasn't long and detailed.
I'm just confused as to why you refuse to say yes or no. You don't know for certain what point they're going to make. It's not that hard..
Assuming what point they are going to make before they make it is close minded.

I've already stated why and I know what "point" they're going to try to make because I've heard it a thousand times already on FB on twitter on numerous other sites. People aren't that hard to figure out nor are their lines of thought generally very original.

If you want to get to the root of why I'm denying them a solid yes or no - it's because I think that argument I know they're about to make is dickish and more damningly a waste of anyone's time so I'm following suit by denying them that satisfying yes or no they want.