Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
You realize how utterly retarded that sounds? However awesome you think the DKs are, they have not the unlimited potential of Gods or Solars. You can reverse engineer Exaltation furry boy.
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Most important thing to note here is that SMA are only availible to a siderial elite, too. Mechanically you have to have at least one celestial style but with most sifus around a millenium old or older their demands could be far worse for aspiring sidereals and then they get still trumped by solar low essence charms.From what I've seen in 2E so far, it looks like Sidereal MAs are capable of wildly powerful, exotic effects that only an old, elite Solar could duplicate... but there are fairly simple Solar Charms which can defend against them.
You realize how utterly retarded that sounds? However awesome you think the DKs are' date=' they have not the unlimited potential of Gods or Solars. You can reverse engineer Exaltation furry boy.[/quote']
With the Spirit Charms lists I've seen, gods seem to have very limited potential.
ummmm... that is an interesting theory, but one that gets blasted by reality. Just look at the gods who have more important positions than an unimportant road in a less traveled region, like for example flashing mountain. They are QUITE badass. And actually solars easily surpass the gods because of solar circle sorcery.You realize how utterly retarded that sounds? However awesome you think the DKs are' date=' they have not the unlimited potential of Gods or Solars. You can reverse engineer Exaltation furry boy.[/quote']
With the Spirit Charms lists I've seen, gods seem to have very limited potential.
And for the dragonblooded owning solars... ahem. If you subtract the bronze faction guidance I highly doubt that. No matter how many of them.
no here it makes no sense at all because we did not speak of a specific god but of the body of entities called gods and they are potentially quite powerful. even me mentioning "flashing mountain" was clearly an example.Solfi said:Actually, Gods basically have no 'potential' at all. That's the point of them. They *are* their nature. The epitome of what they stand for. 'Potential' means ability to grow into something more. Spirits don't grow in the sense that characters do.
They increase what their natures are.
Does that make sense?
However awesome you think the DKs are' date=' they have not the unlimited potential of Gods or Solars.[/quote']
I never said they did. But I think that anyone who can make artifacts with a rating of 5 could make something like an Alchemical if they knew how. Perhaps they might not be able to reverse-engineer them, but it's not outside the realms of possibility that they could get the knowledge some other way.
Or perhaps you'd prefer if making Exalts was out of their reach entirely. Requiring too much power, perchance, or complex facilties that the DKs aren't prone to having. No biggie. They can just give someone a bunch of Artifacts that together replicate the effects of Exaltation.
There, a whole post extolling the virtues of Dragon Kings without once mentioning the you-know-what.
Actually I call bullshit on that. Gods are not their roles. There are plenty of examples of gods abandoning their roles to do something else. Actually one example is the primodial war. The gods were not content with their roles and changed it. And in the age of sorrows the number of gods abandoning their role and duty is simply countless. Gods have a free will and they get bored easily so it is not a surprise that many abandon their duties.Gods can grow a wee bit, but that has more to do with the role they're taking.
Gods don't learn Martial Arts, but have Spirit Charms which mimic the abilities, they don't walk the Lotus Path, and don't understand it. Â
They are their natures, and while the first two portions of the Path are about understanding one's place in the Creation and the Heavens, the Blossoming of the Perfected Lotus goes beyond those roles, but understanding how both fit together--which isn't something the Gods can do. Â They understand the Creation. The Heavens. Their own places in it.
They are their roles, and while the roles can change, as people change, as the Heavens see fit to promote, Gods don't have the same potential that the Exalted have. They are locked into their place in the All, while the Exalted, at least the Solars and Sidereals, have the potential to be even more. Â Right nasty trick on the Gods by Autocthon if you ask me, which is what you get when you treat your ally like a valet...
Jukashi said:They're not glorified automatons, laughing boy. They're Exalts. What DKs would be making is just bigger Brass Legionnaires with new parts. Woohoo.However awesome you think the DKs are' date=' they have not the unlimited potential of Gods or Solars.[/quote']
I never said they did. But I think that anyone who can make artifacts with a rating of 5 could make something like an Alchemical if they knew how. Perhaps they might not be able to reverse-engineer them, but it's not outside the realms of possibility that they could get the knowledge some other way.
Or perhaps you'd prefer if making Exalts was out of their reach entirely. Requiring too much power, perchance, or complex facilties that the DKs aren't prone to having. No biggie. They can just give someone a bunch of Artifacts that together replicate the effects of Exaltation.
There, a whole post extolling the virtues of Dragon Kings without once mentioning the you-know-what.
They're not glorified automatons' date=' laughing boy.[/quote']
I know that, CW. Obviously you'd be sticking a Dragon King soul in there. The body would just be a powerful Artifact that can allow use of Alchemical Charms, possibly with an extra feature to emulate the effect of a spirit using Ride.
Like already said, a lot of gods simply abandon their positions. It is said again and again in GoD, Sidereals and the corebook. Solars and terrestrials used to work to put them back into place as did the rest of the celestial bureaucracy but the system is failing. Look at the gods of great forks, what exactly is their sphere of influence? They wandered around with groups of people they chose to protect, not because that is their duty, they chose. deliberately. out of place.Solfi said:... The point is, he might have changed due to his own actions, but the actual changes to himself were prompted by *external* conditions, not internal ones. There's a slight difference.
By the by, this made me think of that old, almost forgotten war god Mokuu in Pillar of the Sun (the Exalted novel). He manages to get his power to swell once again, with a little help from a Lunar and the Arczeckhi horde.
Now it's my turn to call bullshit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You say that the Player's Guide is null and void because it's 1st Edition, but you have continually cited 1st Edition sources to make your argument. The argument itself means little to me. In my game, I'll do whats best for the story. If a god gaining new abilities helps the story, then the god will do that. I can justify it however I like. But if you're going to say 1st Edition is null and void, you can't use those examples in your argument.Safim said:Like already said, a lot of gods simply abandon their positions. It is said again and again in GoD, Sidereals and the corebook. Solars and terrestrials used to work to put them back into place as did the rest of the celestial bureaucracy but the system is failing. Look at the gods of great forks, what exactly is their sphere of influence? They wandered around with groups of people they chose to protect, not because that is their duty, they chose. deliberately. out of place.
The difference is, he used a rule-quote which is nullified by the second edition (simply by the fact that a lot of non wargods learn martial arts) while I quote fluff that is not likely to change a lot. I even adressed that issue in my first post quoting first age fluff. not rules, mind you.Van77Man said:Now it's my turn to call bullshit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You say that the Player's Guide is null and void because it's 1st Edition, but you have continually cited 1st Edition sources to make your argument. The argument itself means little to me. In my game, I'll do whats best for the story. If a god gaining new abilities helps the story, then the god will do that. I can justify it however I like. But if you're going to say 1st Edition is null and void, you can't use those examples in your argument.Safim said:Like already said, a lot of gods simply abandon their positions. It is said again and again in GoD, Sidereals and the corebook. Solars and terrestrials used to work to put them back into place as did the rest of the celestial bureaucracy but the system is failing. Look at the gods of great forks, what exactly is their sphere of influence? They wandered around with groups of people they chose to protect, not because that is their duty, they chose. deliberately. out of place.