Solar Exalts and Martial Arts Development

I think it's allowed for Exalts to "mentor themselves" by just remembering stuff from their previous incarnation and training it up, so long as it's not something with special requirements, e.g. Spirit Charms for Eclipses or Sidereal Martial Arts.
 
Gtroc said:
that's what I thought as well.
why are martial arts harder to learn for a Dawn caste than sorcery is for a twilight. I find that odd.
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Uh.  You can't just "remember" sorcery (barring GM permission) or learn "natural" spells, because there are no spells that are "natural" to you.  For the styles natural to Solars (like Snake or Solar Hero), Solar martial artists can do this sort of thing.  But barring GM intervention, you will either need tutoring or time to create a spell you want.
 
Wouldn't a person with, say, Past Lives 5, at least remeber roughly the means of Sorcery initiation? Initiation to sorcery is a big event in one's past life, after all.
 
Jukashi said:
Wouldn't a person with, say, Past Lives 5, at least remeber roughly the means of Sorcery initiation? Initiation to sorcery is a big event in one's past life, after all.
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Speaking as a Storyteller, that sounds like a fine way to explain someone's acquisition of the Sorcery Charms.  It is not what is being discussed (namely "natural spell learning"), but I'd let someone remember where their library was, or where other spells might be waiting to be rediscovered.
 
Solfi said:
... I was under the impression that it was *only* the <Exalt-type> Hero Style that's natural to the respective Exalt-types.
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Nope. Read page 240.


Solars can learn Snake without a tutor.
 
memesis said:
Uh.  You can't just "remember" sorcery (barring GM permission) or learn "natural" spells, because there are no spells that are "natural" to you.  For the styles natural to Solars (like Snake or Solar Hero), Solar martial artists can do this sort of thing.  But barring GM intervention, you will either need tutoring or time to create a spell you want.
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did they change that rule in 2nd ED? in 1st it was clearly stated that a twilight could learn the sorcery charms with out a tutor. the same was also said of no moons, and air aspected DBs. if they have changed that rule please site the source please. if you meant that a twilight could not freely learn spells, I agree. I was merely discussing charms.
 
Gtroc said:
completely jacking the thread: I cannot remember, and I am not sure where to look, do Dawn Castes need a teacher for celestial MA? or are they able to pull the whole twilight sorcery schtick and learn it in a dream or some such? I am talking 2nd ED hear, I recall reading about it, but I cannot remember where, or what it said.
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It's stated that they can learn the snake style and solar hero style with no mentor, personally? I would allow First Age Celestial MA to be learnt by a solar or lunar without a mentor... you don't need a mentor... BUT it's longer as normal.


This is mainly your celestial shard giving you nudges on how the charms might go.
 
I don't really get the fuss about Siderial styles and Solars.


According to the 2e corebook Solars have access to Solar Hero Style. While its a typical Celestial Martial Arts for most Exalts for Solars its just another set of typical Charms that can be extended out and up indefinitely.


It seems to me that Solar Hero Style is the style you want when you wish to avoid all the rigmorole of Siderial tutors and styles while having Charms of equal or better power.


Or am I missing something here?
 
What you may be missing, comrade, is that the Sidereal styles are SICK.  They grant the martial artist not merely big dice bonuses, but whole new angles from which to approach combat - i.e. the Citrine Poxes of Contagion and Essence diseases.  And if what we've been hearing about Scroll of the Monk is true, there are some new styles that will be out of their minds crazy as hell.
 
I would imagine that Essence 7+ Charms can get pretty hideous. But that would be true of any Charm, martial arts or not.
 
What you may be missing' date=' comrade, is that the Sidereal styles are SICK.  They grant the martial artist not merely big dice bonuses, but whole new angles from which to approach combat - i.e. the Citrine Poxes of Contagion and Essence diseases.  And if what we've been hearing about Scroll of the Monk is true, there are some new styles that will be out of their minds crazy as hell.[/quote']
The sound you hear is me playing the world's smallest violin.


Let's see if we can beat this dead horse any further.


1. Sidereals are capable of creating martial arts styles in the Essence 4+ range.  They can create no other custom Charm, at all.  Period.


2. Martial arts styles take a minimum of about a year to construct, must revolve around a theme, and must be complete.


3. Solars and Lunars are capable of creating custom Charms in the Essence 4+ range.  They can create custom Charms from any ability they like, and Solars can specifically expand Solar Hero style with new MA Charms in the Essence 4+ range.


4. New Charms take 4x the learning time in days, so figure about 3 weeks per Charm.


5. Sidereal martial arts therefore trump Solar combat abilities.


Did I miss something here?
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JUst because someone is a big bad Solar does not mean we have to hand over the keys to the kingdom.  "Solars are the best."  No, they are just very strong.  So are Lunars, and Fair Folk, and Sidereals.  Solars can pull shit that none of the others can do.  Each class of Exalt (and I dont care if you want to count the Fae as Exalts or not.  it dont matter) has their own groove.  Sidereals got the martial arts at a high level, since they were not decimated a few thousand years ago by the Dragon-Bloods.  No shit they are tough.  They are supposed to be tough.  But they will never be able to cast the Solar level spells or learn the charms that help to make the Solars one of the best power players on the board.
 
Hmmm. Pretty much what I thought. Solar players have no reason to complain about being slightly inhibited in learning Siderial level MA. They are more than compensated by the ability to run Solar Hero Style up to Essence 8+ Charms if they want. when they want (those new Charms are just standard Solar Charms, use that to your advantage).
 
As if this stupid arguement wasn't solved often enough and clearly in the book.


Martial Arts are a way TO enlightment. Period. The added benefit of being able to defend yourself is not aimed at by siderials, it comes as a bonus.


The Lotus symbolizes the enlightment one goes through with learning styles in game mechanical terms. Having a gripe with that is like saying "I don't like that I the switch shows "on" when my computer is actually on".


The nifty effects of those trees come from the better understanding of creation, so of course they are universal to everyone capable of reaching that level of understanding. "No soul is exalted by birth, but by the deeds of his life..." and no shard is exalted into enlightment just because it got a solar stamp on it.


As for mechanical stuff: Martial arts suck compared to solar melee.
 
Safim said:
As for mechanical stuff: Martial arts suck compared to solar melee.
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In terms of raw dice and perfect effects, yes.  But Solar Melee can't cause you to lose the ability to comprehend spoken language, or take away your ability to dream, or turn you into a living artifact.


From what I've seen in 2E so far, it looks like Sidereal MAs are capable of wildly powerful, exotic effects that only an old, elite Solar could duplicate... but there are fairly simple Solar Charms which can defend against them.
 
I'm just saying. 10.000 dragon blooded owns 150 solars, if we are talking pure power levels. gg thx!


:P
 
5 million Dragon Kings trumps all.


Ah ha ha ha!


Of course, we've barely got a million now...
 
Shh. They are mentioned in ONE insignificant book. DB's are all over. DB's get more flavor texts than Solars. DBs own Solars. GG!
 
Zaramis said:
Shh. They are mentioned in ONE insignificant book. DB's are all over. DB's get more flavor texts than Solars. DBs own Solars. GG!
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Correction:


TWO insignificant books!


Actually, the Player's Gude isn't insignificant at all, but it sounds better if I say what I did...


Seriously, though. The Dragon Kings were designed as plot device characters, not player characters; I admit it. They're less powerful than any Exalts, ensuring they won't overshadow any player's, and yet can conceivably do anything the ST wants through their Artifacts.


So really, at their optimum conditions... loaded with their own artifacts, that is... they could be victorious. But ANYONE will win at their optimum conditions, so...


Still, I do like 'em, and I hope I've made them more playable.
 
Y'know, I could really pump on that rage of yours. ;) Just get me a copy of Alchemicals so that I can learn their rules, and then I can have Dragon Kings reverse-engineer them and make their own.


Crystalline Caste and Vegetative Caste... I can see them now...


:twisted:
 
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