Futuristic Sleeping Giants: Melodies of Memories Past

[welian]

//furiously taking notes

 

[TurtleBay]

Although I agree with most of what you said, my Jesuit high school education won't allow me to ignore that Jesus himself did not write those letters; it was the apostle Paul who wrote them after Jesus's death. And it couldn't even be considered "his religon," because most of Jesus's followers considered themselves Jews for a very long time after his death. It wasn't until around the time Constantine came to power in Rome that their was much more of a definitive split.


Also, while i don't know if this applies to all religons, Christianity tends to branch off during times of increased communication, otherwise their isn't really an organized religon to branch off of.  Martian Luther founded Protestantism when he became disillusioned with how the church taxed pilgrims and made money off indulgences, which was when you could literally pay to be absolved of sin. During the dark ages, when simply traveling between towns was incredibly dangerous, Christianity was limited to monks in monasteries who just copied and translated religous text, the didn't waste time contemplating whether it could be improved.


And religous tolerance, while often not directly spoken about, is somewhat coverd in the bible. The only time Jesus directly answers the question "who will go to hell, and who will go to heaven?" , he basically replies with "just be a good person." And a lot of the letters Paul wrote were about how people were refusing to accept Gentiles, which he said went against Jesus's teaching. He never says that people have to be Christian to be saved, but some sects, like the Baptists, will say otherwise. And even outside of Christianity, religous tolerance was huge in the Persian empire, where the primary religon was Zoroastrianism. One of it's main tenets was that everyone had the right to worship whoever, so long as they paid taxes. And Asian culture was one of the most religiously diverse things ever; most emperors kept philosophers and scholars from all over the known world in their courts. 


The reason why the pope refusing to allow Henry VIII was such a big deal was because all of the kings power stemmed from his religous right to rule, making him super dependent on the church, limiting his power heavily. Henry was just looking for an excuse to split off, he had all of his previous wives executed, and by doing so managed to gain control over the military and religous power in his kingdom.


So I don't think it's isolation that gives rise to new sects of religons, which are instead caused by times when widespread communication allows for people to become exposed to a multitude of ideas. On the other hand, isolation coupled with ignorance leads to new religions. Like in Melenasia, where after a commercial airstrip was built, the indigenous people began building airstrips because they thought they could summon an airplane that would bring them food. It's called a cargo cult, and it's super interesting.

You make a lot of good points. As far as the inner workings of Jesuit Christianity, you have more in depth knowledge than I have. I do not doubt that you understand the biblical history as taught in your school. However, you cannot fault me when I say that Jesuit school's retelling may not be the most accurate. As far as we know, because the records were not kept accurately and many records did not survive, some of the history is expert guess work, filing in the blank spaces where records are lacking.


The breaking off of Christianity may seem like it is due to increased communication, but it has more to do with the introduction of new lifestyles and beliefs, not necessarily a result of communication. For example, take a look at the evolution of Buddhism in East Asia. The 'religion' of Buddhism had changed from leading a simpler life in pursuit of nirvana to a religion with a pantheon of deities in East Asia. Buddhism, when introduced to East Asia, mixed with the local mysticism and became an almost completely different religion. In fact, in East Asia, there were no concerns of heaven and hell until Christianity was introduced, which changed the teachings of eastern Buddhism. Changes in religion are almost never about improvements to a religion. It's about fitting in with the locale to make it easier for the residents to adapt to the new concepts.


As far as Asian courts go, the court of philosophers and scholars were not there to be religious scholars ever. In Asia, Emperors were considered gods. Therefore, there was never a contest. And so when someone rebelled against an emperor or a king, they were rebelling against a god, therefore a religion. And when the rebels lost, they were killed, their spouses were killed, their entire extended family were killed. That is not tolerance. 


When Zoroastrianism first surfaced, it was such a radical religious movement as no other religion had ever done something like it. So for it to be the shining example of religious tolerance is not befitting. It was an exception to the rule. Many primitive religions did not accept challenges to the religion.


As for King Henry, you are correct. He was a mad man. But it just shows how easily people bend religion to suit their needs. Another example of this is how Sunni and Shia split of Islam. One sect believes that the disciples of Muhammed should dictate the future of the religion and the other believes that the descendants of Muhammed should dictate. 


Lastly, I did not say once that isolation causes religion to change. I merely stated that I do not believe religion remains relatively intact over the years. And as for you example of John From religion, that is merely an example of more primitive society coming in contact with something so advanced and beyond their comprehension that it becomes something mythical.

 

[Sullivanity]

I do accept your point that my knowledge of Christian history is fragmented at best, even if I did get it from Jesuit priests. Hell, any historical source is always somwhat untrue. As on of my teachers said: "History is a series of agreed upon lies." History is always being rewritten to suit the needs of modern people.


I would consider the introduction to new lifestyles and beliefs to be communication. Those things can't be spread unless people are actively interacting with one another, so I would argue that Buddism evolved into what it is in East Asia today because of an increased level of communication on the continent.


I know that Asian Emperors where considered gods, but they didn't expect everyone in their court to worship them like one. When your empire covers that much land, it becomes virtually impossible to unite everyone under a single belief system. For example, Kublai Khan, who founded the Yuan Dynasty, the first foreign dynasty to rule over all of China, understood that in order to have the Chinese accept him as a ruler, he would need to adopt some of their traditions. While Buddhism was the official state religion, members of his court included followers of Islam, Christianity, Taoism, Confucianism, Tibetan Shamanism, and more. But while he let them worship in peace, he wouldn't hesitate to kill them if he thought they were betraying him for religious reasons. 


I used the Zoroastrianism example because I wanted to point out that religous tolerance hasn't just become a thing in the last hundred years. Like I said before, large empires that try to force everyone to follow the same religion find it extremely difficult. Important to note is that this does not mean cultures will not use religion as a way to express their right to rule, simply that they'll let citizens or slaves worship whatever they want so long as it doesn't get in their way.


The Sunnis and Shiites split because of a disagreement over who would become the caliphate after Mohammed died. Like you said, it was disciples vs descendants, and the whole reason they fought over it in the first place was because both sides wanted power and belived they were the ones who deserved it. I don't disagree with you that people bend religion to suit their needs, in fact almost any aspect of culture is often manipulated for the purpose of gaining power.  


I'm also sorry that I misinterpreted what you said about religious sects forming. I thought that when described how "whenever communication between to centers of human interaction ... became difficult, the religion changed drastically", you were refering to isolation. I know that last sentence sounded pretty sarcastic, but it wasn't meant to be.

 

[Syrenrei]

Ah, when a Turtle Bay and Sophisticated Sea Urchin come together from across the vast seas to have a friendly discussion not about their aquatic natures but about the history of religion...

 

[Sullivanity]

I'm sorry, I just find the concept of religon incredibly interesting. I always end up ranting about it when I get the chance '~'

 

[Syrenrei]

I'm sorry, I just find the concept of religon incredibly interesting. I always end up ranting about it when I get the chance '~'

It's fine! I think Welian probably enjoyed it given she was taking notes a minute ago. I was just amused at the similarities between your name and title, respectively.

 

[welian]

I think the history and development of religion is incredibly fascinating, myself, and I'm honored my thread could spark a thoughtful and polite exchange.

 

[Lemon Boy]

less than eighty.





 

*makes character seventy-nine years old*

 

[welian]

You're fucking dead, kiddo.

 

[yoikes]

I'd come back from near-hiatus for this

 

[welian]

Hell yeah

 

[Sullivanity]

You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Wait a second... That profile picture... Calling people "kiddo"... A setting taking place in a wasteland with highly advanced technology from a mysterious, long-dead civilization... Mother of God, it all makes sense!

 

[Lemon Boy]

*copyright claims rain down from the sky*

 

[welian]

Hehehe.... I like you.

 

[Transparent]

Hehehe.... I like you.

Shit, he's on to us. Grab Butt Stallion and let's bounce!

 

[welian]

@Musician I forgot to mention, about the character sheet - a theme song is mandatory, due to music playing a major part in the roleplay (I'll elaborate later, but all "magic" rituals are musical performances).

 

[Chordling]

I don't think that will be an issue.

 

[welian]

I don't think that will be an issue.

The issue might be limiting yourself to ONE song.

 

[Lemon Boy]

*Insert Desu Desu Magical girl theme for my seventy-nine year old character here* 

 

[welian]

Desu Desu

#BANNED

 

[welian]

My Little Mecha: Music is Magic

 

[D. Rex]

@Musician I forgot to mention, about the character sheet - a theme song is mandatory, due to music playing a major part in the roleplay (I'll elaborate later, but all "magic" rituals are musical performances).

THEME SOOOOOOOOOONG!~ 

 

[Sunbather]

Hello. c:

 

[D. Rex]

Hello. c:

Hello!

 

[CupAndCough]

Def interested.