Shadow Lunars

[Dracogryff]

Rumors abound in the north…in the eastern woods, it is said that a new monster hunts the night…more than an animal, cunning and vicious…few have escaped its gaze alive, and none have gotten more than a glimpse as it shredded their companions in seconds…


Just a random thought I’ve had for a while that Jukashi’s comments on his ‘Eternal Exalted’ brought back to mind. If a Solar shard can be corrupted, why not a Lunar one? True, it’ll probably be more difficult than a Solar shard, as the taint of the Wyld that has warped the shards would probably need to be cleansed somehow, death and the wyld being not all that compatible, IIRC…but if a Monstrance corrupts celestial shards, I could certainly see it as an interesting plot twist. The Lover is the Deathlord I see as most likely to experiment with such, as it was she who figured out how to corrupt living Solars…


It couldn’t be done to a tattooed Lunar, that’s for sure…but if a deathlord got their hands on an uncasted child, who’s to say they couldn’t potentially figure out a way. After capturing a few casted Lunars and toturing a fair bit of information out of them…it might even be possible to capture their shards if you killed them…but an uncasted Lunar…an offer to cleanse the grip if the Wyld from their veins could be a powerful lure. Just imaging a bleeding blood red caste mark, like the moon in total eclipse, perhaps Soulsteel tattoos…it is also possible that by managing to clean the wyld taint, the original five castes are restored to these Shadow Lunars...


Just curious as to others thoughts and ideas on this. Haven’t really tried to think about mechanics yet, it's currently just a ‘what if’ sort of thought…

 

[Flyck]

I recall reading a post about this back when Abyssals first came out in 1e.  The response from the Dev, was that the Abyssals are the polar opposite of the Solar Essence.  In many ways, they optimize the curse of the Solars, and are dark-sides of the Solars given form.  The problem with Lunars, is their 'darker nature' is their bestial nature.  A 'darker' side of a Lunar, IS pretty much it's beastial animal side.  Hence, they wouldn't become a tainted form of themselves (like the Solar/Abyssal setup), but rather they'd become the very nightmarish monstrosities that they work to keep from becoming, Chimera.


Of course, that may all change... and an Abyssal-like Lunar would be something I'd go for...   :twisted:   That is pretty dark, especially for the Lover...  "Go out, and find your 1st age mate...  I have a game I want to play with you two..."

 

[Quchu]

Heh... Neph's explanation as to why there aren't any canonical deathy Lunars was that it's because Lunars are supposed to be the champions of Life. They are changing things, vivid and vibrant, violent and intoxicating, never alike and always new... Therefore, the Essence of the Underworld would not be able to warp their Shards... Well, this is off the top of my head, not sure what the exact argument was, but it was something to that effect.


And, my online gaming group has been getting ready for a 2E Lunars game once the book comes out, and though I don't think I'll be able to afford the time, due to school and time zone difference and all, but this one character concept I had was a Ghost-Blooded Changing Moon exorcist... And this gave me an idea... If there are occasional DBs who are capable of handling Necromancy instead of Sorcery, then perhaps there should be Lunars who are more adapt at Necromancy than Sorcery, given they have a justification (such as a ghostly parentage?) Well, anyway.


And, on another note, while it may be a little off-topic...


One idea that's in my backburner along with most other ideas I like was that the antithesis of the Lunars, what they become once their Shard becomes inversed, was the Alchemicals. Lunars are the organic epitomes of chaotic nature, and the Alchemicals are the inorganic epitomes of static machinery... Of course, this would ignore the Alchemicals as canon. Eh, well. (And a related idea given by wordman was the parallel between the Sidereals and the Infernals. That way, Glory vs. Entropy, Organic vs. Inorganic, and Heaven vs. Hell somesuch thinger might work. I dunno. Blah!)

 

[Jukashi]

One problem with making Lunars more death-ish is that, well... how do you do that? They're already more deathly than any other Exalt except Abyssals. Look at them: they drink blood, devour hearts, and they have Charms that let them eat their fallen foe's po, shape the bones of the dead into weapons and tools, and shoot parts of their own skeleton at people. They're the Exalted that were originally made to be killing machines. Though they may have herbivorous animals as totems, they're predators.


I mean, what else are you gonna make them do?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Well, Lunars were among the group that discovered/beat Necromancy out of the Neverborn. A Lunar who had an affinity for such would certainly seem reasonable...perhaps even the switched places for Necromancy and Sorcery for the right one...though likely only for say, those couple Essences...or with an excuse like the Ghostblooded idea.


As for the Death aspected Lunars...I don't know. To some extent to my mind their current Wyld corruption would be rather diametrically opposed to the death essence. Wether something could be done to change this, I don't know for certain.


Capturing the shards shouldn't be too hard...kill them in a Monstrance of Celestial Portion and it might even work already. If not, then a little modification should cover that part. Now, whether the Deathlords could go further...I don't know. They learned their trick from the Yozi's, who are certainly able to do THEIR tricks on any exalt type...but if they can do so, what the results would be...I don't know. Perhaps a wild killer, under the rulership of their own Po...perhaps something different entirelly. Or...just an impracticle but interesting way to kill Lunars.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

An idea I toyed with at one point:


An ancient chimera that's in a state of constant, painful physical flux makes a deal with a strange Exalt for a way to ease her pain. This dude is, of course, an Abyssal who uses a necromantic ritual to deaden (ha!) her pain by making parts of her body undergo partial necrosis. Her bit is, as long as she stops hurting, she doesn't really care, and she's too far gone to recognize necromancy; his bit is, once he performs the "cleansing" on her often enough, she'll have enough death-Essence in her for a more experienced necromancer to take control of her body with a Labyrinth or Void Circle spell.

 

[Forest Eyes]

Damn, now I need to make a Raiton Totem Lunar that serves one of the Deathlords. Rather than corrupting shards, I think it'd be more interesting for the Deathlords to just have an alternate way of or locking their caste or somesuch. Soulsteel alloyed muzzles anyone?


The act of actually tainting a Lunar shard doesn't really seem really in with the nature of Lunars. Lunar shards are mutable and malleable by nature. At most, they can be solidified into a consistant form, but how do you radically alter the nature of something that's inherently adaptive? Tainting Solar shards seems to fit because the symbolism behind them works on opposite: They create light, they cast shadows. But the Moon doesn't really work on binary opposition the way the Sun does, so Lunar shards shouldn't be something that you can pervert into an opposite. They don't really HAVE an opposite.


That's why I think an alternate method of fixing Lunars would be more appropriate than tainting their shards. More unique and flavorful, in any case.

 

[Flyck]

There are some (and I do mean *some*) Lunars that serve Deathlords.

 

[Forest Eyes]

I figured there had to be...I mean, there are cannon examples of Solars, Sidereals, and Spirits that serve the Deathlords, so why not everything else in Creation?


But if a Deathlord wanted to go out of his way to get a Lunar under his tumb, I think finding a way of locking their caste and/or totem would be the way to do it. Maybe an altered Heart's Blood background where they gain their shapes by eating carrion rather than a living heart would be thematic.

 

[Dracogryff]

I recall reading a post about this back when Abyssals first came out in 1e.  The response from the Dev, was that the Abyssals are the polar opposite of the Solar Essence.  In many ways, they optimize the curse of the Solars, and are dark-sides of the Solars given form.  The problem with Lunars, is their 'darker nature' is their bestial nature.  A 'darker' side of a Lunar, IS pretty much it's beastial animal side.  Hence, they wouldn't become a tainted form of themselves (like the Solar/Abyssal setup), but rather they'd become the very nightmarish monstrosities that they work to keep from becoming, Chimera.

I admit I had been thinking along the lines of Lunars tainted in this fashion being much more bestial in nature than their counterparts, myself. *shrugs* It was a thought. I was thinking along the lines of, oh, Kuja, but with human intelligence to make it that much more deadly. A killing machine, I suppose, but one that wouldn't necessarily just try to rip your throat out on first sight. I'd see it as something like what the Gold Faction is trying in the Cult...making a nice, deadly sex toy/pet for their champions. Since Lunars are automatically tied to a Solar shard already, finding the right one and corrupting it might be worth the effort. It might not also.


And they wouldn't be Chimera, per-se, either, considering Chimera have also lost their true shapes and  their identity to the Wyld...I tend to view Chimera as often an ever shifting monstrosity that is out to get you. While this idea would still be out to get you...it'd be that much harder to recognize at first sight...is that just a rabbit or the Killer of the Black Forest in disguise?

The act of actually tainting a Lunar shard doesn't really seem really in with the nature of Lunars. Lunar shards are mutable and malleable by nature. At most' date=' they can be solidified into a consistant form, but how do you radically alter the nature of something that's inherently adaptive? Tainting Solar shards seems to fit because the symbolism behind them works on opposite: They create light, they cast shadows. But the Moon doesn't really work on binary opposition the way the Sun does, so Lunar shards shouldn't be something that you can pervert into an opposite. They don't really HAVE an opposite.[/quote']
How about this; the moon reflects light...what about having something that absorbs light? Being mutable and malleable, by my eyes, makes them less resistant to change, not more. The fact that just being in close proximity to the Wyld managed to warp their shards so badly that they need to tattoo themselves to keep it from eating them from the inside out is another indicator that they are rather susceptible to change. At least to me.


And having an anima banner that seems to suck the light into itself instead of being light would look pretty neat, if it were to be so. A sort of graying out of everything around them, dimming the area...I don't know. It's a thought, anyhow.


Like I said, I don't know how workable the idea would be...the main challenge I see is getting rid of the Wyld corruption the shards already have in doing something like this. I don't know if anyone would bother, or whether they would just take the Lunar in their employ...it's just the idea that if they die, you're out a minion you can't replace. If you manage to corrupt them like the Solars have been, you could then replace them if something happened. I can also see the Lover liking the idea of having a matched set. *chuckles*

 

[Flagg]

...is that just a rabbit or the Killer of the Black Forest in disguise?

It's Bunnicula.

How about this; the moon reflects light...

In reality, yes. While I don't think it's explicitly mentioned in the books, I'd assume that the moon in Creation gives off her own light. Try to tell a Lunar otherwise to his face. I dare you

 

[Dracogryff]

It's Bunnicula.

*snrks* Fear the minion onions and killer carrots! Who knows what terrors lurk in the hearts of lettuce? Toothpicks for everyone!


Gods, I haven't read that series in years. Own it all though. The fact that it's a kids to young adult series probably contributes to the not reading it much anymore...but it's still cute.


...and now I'm having visions of the homicidal bunny totem Lunar.... 'You want cute and fluffy? I'll give you cute and fluffy!!!' *gnawgnawgnaw*

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

And we shall name it... Bun Bun. It shall wield a moonsilver switchklaive, and seek to collect all the beautiful women of the world and enjoy it's alphalpha, while trying to ignore the bouncing of its sugar shock insane ferret familiar.

 

[Vanman]

...and now I'm having visions of the homicidal bunny totem Lunar.... 'You want cute and fluffy? I'll give you cute and fluffy!!!' *gnawgnawgnaw*

The Vorpal Bunny.......

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Must someone read from the Book of Armanents, that we might use the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch to defend us from this fluffy menace?

 

[Dracogryff]

...I hate you LK.


Anyhow. Vorpal Bunny indeed. Or something. Yesh. I also forgot to comment on this...

In reality, yes. While I don't think it's explicitly mentioned in the books, I'd assume that the moon in Creation gives off her own light. Try to tell a Lunar otherwise to his face. I dare you.

Well, while I certainly wouldn't be so stupid as to say something like that to Luna's face...I like my life as it is, really, I have a few bits of food for thought.


First of all, Luna is merely an Incarna, not a Celestial Incarna. If she shone on her own, wouldn't she be more powerful than the Stars on her own without needing Gaia's support to become so? She may have the same amount of power, but she is specifically stated as not being one of the Celestines.


Also. Every single one of her Lunars is tied to a specific Solar. Granted, according to what I've heard of canon, this is because the US demanded it, but it still means that they are intristically bound to a child of the sun in some fashion. If Luna reflects the Unconquired Sun's light, her children reflect the will of their bonds...it has a sort of symmetry, when it comes down to it.


I don't necessarily know whether or not this is the case, but looking at the fact that the moon is brighter than the stars, and yet Luna is not as powerful as the Maidens without the support of a primordial...who shines on their own?

 

[Jukashi]

I've always liked the idea that Luna's not a god at all, but some sort of demi-primordial. But in any case, you have to remember that the Maidens aren't really the gods of the stars; all gods have a star associated with them. The Maidens are gods of other things, it's just that because they're so powerful, their stars are brightest.


Luna, on the other hand, shares with the Unconquered Sun the privilege of definitively being God/dess of part of the sky, rather than just having part of the sky reflecting her existance. So, the reason Luna is tied to the US is not because she reflects his light, but because they're essentially the same thing- two big, glowy lights in the sky. It's just that the US is bigger and brighter and shinier, while Luna is more tricksy, being capable of changing her shape or hiding herself in the darkness. And a similar thing happens with their Exalted.

 

[Flagg]

First of all, Luna is merely an Incarna, not a Celestial Incarna.

I'm not sure there is an actual distinction there.

they are intristically bound to a child of the sun in some fashion.

No they're not. There's nothing intrinsic in the bond at all. The Solars and Lunars in the First Age were bound by custom, nothing more.

 

[Flagg]

But in any case, you have to remember that the Maidens aren't really the gods of the stars; all gods have a star associated with them. The Maidens are gods of other things, it's just that because they're so powerful, their stars are brightest.

I thought they were the gods of the planets?


Exalted makes this distinction, yes? The ancients certainly did.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

No they're not. There's nothing intrinsic in the bond at all. The Solars and Lunars in the First Age were bound by custom, nothing more.

Actually, as of the upcoming book, that is false. All Lunars were bound to a Solar by a mystical bond.

 

[Flagg]

Well, shut my mouth

 

[Jukashi]

Exalted makes this distinction, yes? The ancients certainly did.

Whoopsies. Oh well! My point about her being a counterpart to the US still stands.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

First of all, Luna is merely an Incarna, not a Celestial Incarna.

I'm not sure there is an actual distinction there.

At least according to p. 53, of the 1st Ed book:


Luna


Gaia's companion Incarna, Luna is not a Celestine, but might as well be from the amount of power her consort has delegated to her.


This may have been changed in 2nd Ed, but was at least the case before. then again, the same section mentions Luna not paying much attention to her chosen, when she's the one who pays the most attention, so...go figure.

 

[Vanman]

This may have been changed in 2nd Ed' date=' but was at least the case before. then again, the same section mentions Luna not paying much attention to her chosen, when she's the one who pays the most attention, so...go figure.[/quote']
God bless WW's editting. They make things so much easier for the players......


:evil:

 

[Ker'ion]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: ROTFLMAO!!!!! :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: