Shadow Lunars

I think CW meant that Malfeas could always have been a place... Though, I guess if he was, I would assume he was more of a palace than a prison. Like, Creation or Yu-Shan you know, except he's large enough that each Primordials, whom are worlds themselves, compared to him are as big as a human to Creation. >_>


Or I'm interpreting things the way I like to think. That's probably it.
 
Um guys, both the ancient greeks and ancient chinesae knew that the moon used reflected light


it wasn't until the dark ages that the knowledge of it was lost


so it is not modern knowledge at all, but ancient wisdom proven true


also, if you do this, you will need to rename the moonshadow caste, as they descrribe creation getting in the way of luna being able to reflect the suin's light and how that causes humanity to see true darkness
 
Back to the question of the Abyssal Lunar....


My group discussed this a while ago, and came up with some ideas that probably do not fit into the well-eddited world of Exalted, but we kinda liked them.


If a Lunar became an Abyssal, s/he would have to turn away from Luna and embrace a new master.  Therefore, we decided that the Lunar would lose the ability to gain new forms from their heartsblood, but keep the ones s/he already has.  Also, they would replace their Charms with ones from the Abyssal book, and any new ones would come from there also.  They would take many of the side effects of the Abyssals of not being able to recover Essence in Creation without drinking blood, and they would be hunted by any Lunar they came across for the betrayal of thier patron.
 
Sherwood said:
Also, they would replace their Charms with ones from the Abyssal book, and any new ones would come from there also.
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So they would more or less become full fledged Abyssals, Charm-wise, except with the Ability to take animal forms, and no ability to do any other shapeshifting?


That strikes me as very odd.
 
Maybe they could take on new "death" forms - fight and/or kill a death  creature - zombie, ghost, war ghost, nephwrack, etc - absorb their essence/deathblood, whathaveyou - and they can change into those creatures. And what if they could then do a DBT to include those entities?


I will freely admit that I haven't read the old Lunar book so all my information is second hand and hearsay, so this suggestion may be utter crap, but it's the first thing I thought of.....
 
We never tried to play test the idea, it was just something we bantered back and forth.  We were all in agreement that the shapeshifting would take a hit.  We saw it as a gift from Luna, and when turning to the Underworld, you would lose much of that, if not all.
 
Thing is, if you take away the shapeshifting they're not really anything like Lunars anymore. Even the Abyssals retained some of the superskilled-ness of their Solar heritage.
 
Do what you like with your "shadow Lunars" idea, but keep in mind that the reason why the Deathlords created the Abyssals from corrupted Solar shards is that Solars are the most powerful type of Exalted in existence. Given that, why bother going through the costly & tedious process of corrupting Lunar shards when you can simply use sorcery and Charms to subvert them to your service? A Lunar coerced into service or bound with artifacts/ spells retains all its natural talents, including shapeshifting, and doesn't stink of death-taint the way Abyssals do.


Also, Lunars CAN'T learn Abyssal Charms. If you abide by the books, at least, that is impossible... and even if you don't, it's slightly redundant. Lunars have plenty of Charms that facilitate killin' stuff.


Someone made the point earlier: before there were Abyssals, the Lunar Exlated WERE the scary-ass inescapable death-metal killers. They were the boogeyman you hoped the Solar ruler didn't set upon you when you pissed him off. Why complicate the issue with stolen shards and secret rituals and shit? Why not just have a Lunar who serves a Deathlord for his own reasons (a la Darktide and the Silver Prince)?
 
If I had to make Lunars more deathly, I would just alter their flavour a bit and give them the capacity to maybe learn Arcanos instead of Fair folk Charms.
 
Now THERE's an idea. There's some interesting shit in the Death-In-Life Path from the Player's Guide - some shit that might interest a shape-changer, methinks..?
 
I'm not positive the effort likely required to make a corrupt Lunar would end up being worth it, true, which was why I started this thread in the first place...but I could see the Lover liking the idea of a matched set, so at least trying the idea. *chuckles* I like the Arcanos idea, though. That sounds interesting....as did an earlier mention of only getting heart's blood from carrion. It could also be that their stuck to underworld creatures and ghosts...imaging a Barghest or Pyre Hawk totem Lunar...I don't think they could turn into these guys before.


Though Domino has mentioned that the lack of a ghost knack was only lack of time and space on his part for 2E Lunars...ah well. It might still be interesting to limit a corrupted Lunar that way or something.
 
I like the idea of learning the Arcanos idea.  I'll have to look into it.


Hanat, not to get into a arguement with you, but in my world, I have a fair number of Underworld-aspected Dragon-Blooded that serve the Deathlords.  Some have volunteered to join from various armies of Creation, and some have been born to citizens living in various Shadowlands.


The reward of having more Exalts serving under the command of the Abyssals seems obvious to me.  If there is a necromatic ritual to twist a Solar shard, why won't it work on the lesser powered Exalts?  Why not have the advantage of leigons of the dead being sent forward by not just the fallen Solar, but the Lunars and Dragon-Blooded too?
 
Sherwood said:
Hanat, not to get into a arguement with you, but in my world, I have a fair number of Underworld-aspected Dragon-Blooded that serve the Deathlords.  Some have volunteered to join from various armies of Creation, and some have been born to citizens living in various Shadowlands.
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Do as you like. I suspect a friend of mine who's running Abyssals has something similar up his sleeve, insofar as we fought Dragon-Blooded whose Essence was clearly tainted by Oblivion. At the same time, the idea of having an Underworld Aspect seems very silly to me, since the DRAGON-Blooded were spawned by the five great elementals of Creation and that the Underworld doesn't have its own elemental poles/ forces - just wan reflections of what exists in Creation. But as Uncle Al says: do as thou wilt.

Sherwood said:
The reward of having more Exalts serving under the command of the Abyssals seems obvious to me.  If there is a necromatic ritual to twist a Solar shard, why won't it work on the lesser powered Exalts?  Why not have the advantage of leigons of the dead being sent forward by not just the fallen Solar, but the Lunars and Dragon-Blooded too?
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My point was that the Deathlords have already corrupted the most powerful Exalts around, and that as such specifically crafting a necromantic ritual to taint Lunars or DBs seems superfluous. The greatest death-powers available have already been discovered. Why taint a Dragon-Blooded and waste time developing Void-tainted elemental powers when you already Abyssal Lore Charms that suck the life out of Creation? More to the point, you don't have to magically taint an Exalt to press - or manipulate - her into your service, so why bother? A Deathlord could easily suborn a few outcastes and breed a line of Dragon-Blooded that ascribe to his version of the ancestor cult, using culture to control them instead of motes and hoodoo. Yes, they have a lot of motes at their disposal... but why buy milk when you can indoctrinate the cow for free?


The DLs also have ancient nemissaries that fill the power gap between war ghosts and Exalts. With the right war bodies, Arcanoi and combat training, a nemissary can kill a DB, and they also have the advantage of numbers. Also, ghosts can use necromancy, and even if it's just the Shadowlands Circle, all DBs get is Emerald Sorcery, so that's roughly even.


It's your thing, comrade - do what you want to do. But that's why I wouldn't put it in my game.


And pardon my rhetorical excess when I attributed your idea to n00bs. Even Neil Gaiman says there's no such thing as a bad idea - just poor execution.
 
It could be that they only have so many Monstrances. They're probably very hard to make, so once they had 150 of them- what's needed for their Abyssal shards- they left off making them. After all, once you fully corrupt a Celestial shard that way, it's bound to that Monstrance and it can't be used for any other Exalts.


Why go to alll the trouble and expense of binding Lunars when they have Abyssals and Nemissaries? Why bother binding Sidereals when there's no Destiny in the underworld? I doubt the sidereals an be easily modified to work with the Calender; they're designed to work with the Loom.
 
Another possible factor is that Dragon-Blooded power comes, at least indirectly from a Primordial. They are the "children" of the under-souls of Gaia. Maybe that complicates the corruptification process somewhat.
 
Correction...they only needed 100 for their orignal Abyssals. They did give 50 shards to the Yozis. Originally at least. They would need to make new ones to corrupt current Solars into Abyssals, I would assume...so I don't see that as an issue. *shrugs* Make one for corrupting a Solar, or make one for corrupting a Lunar...not that much different, really...you're still making one. And as to why, I can see the Lover doing it just for the symmetry. Could be wrong.


As to DBs...they don't have shards, so I really don't see them as corruptable in the same way. Twist them so they learn Shadowlands Necromancy instead of Emerald Sorcery (which is possible according the the Black and White Treatise), sure...but tainting them to the point of making something like an Abyssal doesn't seem possible, as their Exaltation process is completely different. And is a one shot sort of thing, not something you can re-use.


And Sidereals....I don't know. They're a lot harder to find anyhow...and mostly forgotten (by their own efforts)...so it's less likely...but I wouldn't know where to begin with them. I was looking at the Lunars because of the new Solar Bond background and the fact that they are the partners to the Solars and all that, so it wouldn't seem completely unlikely that the Lover would work on making matched sets or somesuch. *shrugs*
 
I've been thinking about this...give me your feedback.


The Raiton circled overhead, its cry as chilling as ice. Eliad dashed through the trees, attempting to shake off the raptor's gaze. The young Solar had fought his way through dozens of hungry ghosts, barely escaping the wrath of an angry Deathknight. The Abyssal was a dervish of destruction, destroying everything in her path to reach Eliad, but he proved faster. This evil creature was the last obstacle of his escape. The creature had followed him to the very edge of the shadowland, relentless in its flight.


Eliad reached a clearing, and looked up to see the raiton still above him, manuvering through the treetops with unnatural speed and terrifying grace. Sensing an opportunity, he turned and released an arrow, knowing the beast would be forced to swoop below its flight or be struck. The creature dove underneath the arrow just as Eliad predicted, and the Sunchild smiled and prepared to make his escape, when the beast's shape changed as it landed in the clearing. A seven foot tall, gangly creature, with a vicious edged beak, talons appearing underneath horrible black feathers. Around the monster's beak was a muzzle of sorts, a series of interlocked silvery chains, tied to a dark choker around its neck. It growled, and began to advance.


"Good boy," a ghostly voice said, as another dark figure followed through  the trees. "I knew you'd find him." It was the Deathknight Eliad had been running from, Wolf With Onyx Fangs, a terrifying woman. She stroked the beast on its neck, which cooed at her touch, craning its head back like a loving pet. "Now, sic 'em."


Moonbinding Muzzle


This is a rare and insidious artifact, first forged by a sadistic Daybreak Caste Abyssal who encountered a recently reincarnated Lunar yet to be initiated into the Silver Pact. Unaware of its nature, with no memories of its previous life aside from a sense of familiarity with the Deathknight, the Lunar was victim to a number of horrifying experiments, which resulted in the creation of this artifact.


The Moonbinding Muzzle is a group of interlocking Moonsilver chains, held together by a Soulsteel collar. Like all Moonsilver artifacts, the muzzle will change shape to accomodate a Lunar's shapeshifting. When placed on a casteless Lunar, willingly or unwillingly, it fixes the Lunar's Caste to whichever caste it embodied at the time it was placed. It also prevents the Lunar from gaining new forms via consuming Heart's Blood, but can now gain forms from eating the corpse of an animal that has been dead for at least one night. Otherwise, it simply serves the equivalent function of Lunar tattoos.


The artifact's true purpose, however, is much more sinister. When fastened by an Abyssal (or possibly even a Solar) who was mated to the Lunar in a previous incarnation, the bond between mates is twisted into a disgusting perversion of what it was. If the Abyssal commits six motes, the Lunar becomes completely devoted to the Abyssal, but the relationship becomes one of master and pet rather than one between equals. The Lunar must spend a point of temporary willpower to disobey any of the Abyssal's commands.


These artifacts are understandably rare--Moonsilver is exceptionally rare in the Underworld, and Lunars will destroy these artifacts any time they find them.


Not sure what level would be appropriate for this, since it's more of a plot device than a tool. Any thoughts?
 
That's actually quite cool.


A few comments - I'm assuming the muzzle can't be removed by the Lunar? I mean, if the Lunar can spend a Willpower to ignore the Master's commands, could it then take off the muzzle? I'm assuming no, but I thought I'd ask.


As for level.....that's a tough one. On the one hand, the device essentially gives you a Lunar slave, in effect, which is pretty frickin' powerful. On the other hand, if it only works on a Lunar to which the Abyssal/Solar is tied to, it's usefulness is pretty limited.


Having said all that, I'd say either Artifact 5 or Artifact N/A. But I suck at rating artifacts, so I may be totally off here.
 
Hrmmmm...add the additional effects.


With the expendature of four motes, whoever fastened the collar can release the muzzle with a simple gesture and vocal activation. (For example, snapping and saying "sic 'em." The collar remains on, but the chains and muzzle itself release. When released, the Lunar becomes a berserk predator, and will not stop attacking any targets their handler indicates. When the muzzle is off, the Lunar will automatically succeed Valor rolls and automatically fail temperance Rolls. If there are no targets remaining, the Lunar will begin to devour any corpses remaining. The handler can place the muzzle back on at will.


With this effect I'd definitly think it would become an N/A Artifact.
 
It's a neat idea...but my question: Why in God's name do you want to choke the setting with more Exalt types? That's like WW deciding to pull three new Exalt types out of it's ass with every new edition.
 
As I've said multiple times, I could see the Lover liking to have a matched set...it'd fit her. *shrugs* That said...I think the idea of that muzzle is pretty damn cool...and much more likely to end up occuring, in all honesty. Odds are, corrupted Lunars aren't something I'd actually do, I was just trying to get some ideas on how plausible it might be to have happen...and I rather like the idea of this muzzle instead...thanks.
 
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